Attn: Crafters - Opinions wanted

[Llama]

As you probably know by now, part of the VBU is an 'updated' crafting system.

Basically I can change the skill needed to learn X, the amount of items that are required to make it, which craft gets to produce items Xs and so on.

So, I'm going to ask to hear your opinions - what do you dislike about the current crafting system? Do you have any suggestions to make it better?

Note that I'm limited to that scope - so suggestions like "I don't think that dye should be used for armours" are acceptable, while "Make more items for goldsmiths" or "Make a new craft which can extract teeth from dead animals" are beyond the scope and are right out.

Lets hear it

[Alexander Knight]

I actually like it, honestly i think it needs to be a little harder.
You dont become a master of your trade in 3 years, it's something that needs to be worked at.

Maybe have more items for all classes but thats something that can wait till further suggestions on what we need.

[Llama]

I actually like it, honestly i think it needs to be a little harder.
You dont become a master of your trade in 3 years, it's something that needs to be worked at.

The aim of this game is so people have fun. Not so people spend every waking moment of their online time PGing. If you wanted to be realistic, a sword would take you 5 years to make, and you're probably throw it away.

But that's not fun.

[Pellandria]

Last time I tried to bake I was wondering if I might not read a book while I'm at it, so please lower the time it takes to cook and bake if possible.

[Llama]

Last time I tried to bake I was wondering if I might not read a book while I'm at it, so please lower the time it takes to cook and bake if possible.

I'll look into that then.

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

I would suggest to remove the concrete information what kind of material is needed for a certain step. The knowledge of how certain things are manifactured should be in books, NPCs and of course other players.

[Sonara Stone]

Tailor: The ten minutes to bleach cloth is annoying... maybe shorten it a bit? The amount of stuff to tailor is good though. Lots of options.

Herb lore: More things to collect would be nice. It took over thirty rl minutes of nonstop work before I could get anything besides those useless berries.

[Llama]

It used to be that way before.

Then we all realised how irritating that was.

Its also rather unrealistic. You can MAKE IT ALREADY, so you should KNOW HOW ITS MADE.

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

It used to be that way before.

Then we all realised how irritating that was.

Its also rather unrealistic. You can MAKE IT ALREADY, so you should KNOW HOW ITS MADE.

Unrealistic? Strange. You get a swirley by creating something you know and all of a sudden you know how to make a totally different thing? That is what I call unrealistic.
Every player is free to note down any "recipe" his character has learned/knows, or he revisits the appropriate book or NPC or asks a PC in case he forgot the "incredience" needed.

[Kranek]

idea concerning making new things:
create books for every profession. as soon as you hit a certain skill level, you can "understand" the things in the book better and as soon as you read the book POOF new things are able to make

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

idea concerning making new things:
create books for every profession. as soon as you hit a certain skill level, you can "understand" the things in the book better and as soon as you read the book POOF new things are able to make

Well, not every character is able to read books.

[Kranek]

idea concerning making new things:
create books for every profession. as soon as you hit a certain skill level, you can "understand" the things in the book better and as soon as you read the book POOF new things are able to make

Well, not every character is able to read books.

Create a NPC-teacher...or the ability to teach another char
*thinks of a smithing-master and his student*

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

idea concerning making new things:
create books for every profession. as soon as you hit a certain skill level, you can "understand" the things in the book better and as soon as you read the book POOF new things are able to make

Well, not every character is able to read books.

Create a NPC-teacher...or the ability to teach another char
*thinks of a smithing-master and his student*

I would suggest to remove the concrete information what kind of material is needed for a certain step. The knowledge of how certain things are manifactured should be in books, NPCs and of course other players.

I think "update" does not mean a complete new system. I think we are talking about changes within the scope of the current system

Please let me rephrase my proposal: I would like to see more interaction (ideally with other PCs but you know the problems) when it comes to learning something new.

[Kevin Lightdot]

Create a NPC-teacher...or the ability to teach another char
*thinks of a smithing-master and his student*

We saw how the teacher thing went when magic was implemented.

[Kranek]

Create a NPC-teacher...or the ability to teach another char
*thinks of a smithing-master and his student*

We saw how the teacher thing went when magic was implemented.

Because there are not many teachers and its impossible to learn from a book.
But just like Magdha said, you can learn new things from books, NPCs or PCs

[Estralis Seborian]

Please, people, try to stay on topic! And be nice to each other.

Hadrian is not asking for new items, new ways how to learn new items, changes to the skill system and so on. He's asking for things like mentioned by Pellandria, like the speed of production steps.

In detail, this can be changed by clicking one's finger:

• Minimum skill you need for an item
• Items you need to produce an item
• Time you need for each step
• Food consumption during crafting

OK, here are my points:

Estralis likes...

• Automated crafting
• Reasonable rates of success
• Static tools as requirement
• Crafting menues
• Clear messages what materials you need (screw realism!)
• Many, many items can be produced

Estralis dislikes...

• "You have to hold the rasp and driller in your hand, turn towards the vice and keep all materials in your belt"-annoyances
• Material is only taken from the belt
• Many items take too much time to craft (steps are too slow - keep in mind that every step takes 1s+APs/10 - see below)
• Many items require too many materials
• Dye as paint. Oh-my-god. No.
• Some items require wierd materials, like skulls or metal for wooden items
• Shields as smithed items. Totally off.
• Gathering materials is boring, add some suprises like done for fishing!
• Rate of success of gem grinding (-5% LOL ROFL)
• The message "You lack of..." has no full stop and (I think) is bad english
• Even noob items take various different materials, like a noob helmet takes three different materials - good for high end stuff, bad for noob things
• Extremely frustrating: When I craft something, the durability is NOT 99. So, I craft something, it should be new, period. Quality may vary, though. Shitty old stuff I can get from monster drops!
• Herb gathering is strange; plant+ground->one herb is not very intuitive, I'd prefer different herbs from the same plant

I'll update the list soon.

PS: One time for baking, one can partly blame me for this, if you subtract one second for each step and divide the rest by 2.5, this is roughly the state that was intended. e.g. instead of 11 seconds, a step was ment to take only 4. And even that is a bit too much IMO.

Edit: I just spent 11 minutes RL to craft one item in 40 steps. That's ~160 AP each step. Make that like 10-40 and we're all happy. I do not have to mention that the item was "highly scraped"->TRASH

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

I think that Illarion has the best crafting system of any MMO(RP)G I have ever tested. It is quite realistic and logical without being too realistic to become cumbersome.

I like:

- static tools (though the location of some should be changed but this is rather a map issue)
- hand-held tools that degrade and have to be replaced over time
- need for different materials as it (should) increase(s) the trade
- increased production time and complexity for advanced products
- automated production

I dislike:
- crappy tools from NPCs
- low prices for selling products to NPCs
- high prices for buying materials from NPCs
- that materials have to be on the belt (bag should be included as well)
- jack-of-all-trades
- mass-production needed to increase the skill (quite difficult to balance without an alternative crafting system)

What I would like to see:
- More interaction when it comes to learning something new
- More detailed emotes showing the appropriate state of work (only "neccessary" if mass-production is "needed", otherwise I could make the emotes myself)

[Llama]

- crappy tools from NPCs
- low prices for selling products to NPCs
- high prices for buying materials from NPCs

Far as I know, Estralis worked on this

- that materials have to be on the belt (bag should be included as well)

Bit outside my scope, but I'll see what I can do... maybe.

- jack-of-all-trades

Nothing we can really fix.

- mass-production needed to increase the skill (quite difficult to balance without an alternative crafting system)

= Learning System problems.

- More detailed emotes showing the appropriate state of work

Go blame the crafters for not RPing enough.

[Magdha Tiefenerz]

- jack-of-all-trades

Nothing we can really fix.

I guess not with the current system although the time needed to produce something has some influence on that, but as I have mentioned this is hard to balance as we don't want to "punish" all (other) players.

- More detailed emotes showing the appropriate state of work

Go blame the crafters for not RPing enough.

I've forgotten that people allready complained about the spamming of emotes, so introducing more auto-emotes might not be good idea afterall. But maybe we can have at least "...starts to work on a <item>" instead of "...starts to work."?

[Estralis Seborian]

- crappy tools from NPCs
- low prices for selling products to NPCs
- high prices for buying materials from NPCs

Far as I know, Estralis worked on this

Will be part of the big update. Last point will remain, though. Those aren't crafting issues, though.

On the "take items from belt", this can be changed easy as hell, just replace "belt" with "all" in all scripts for all steps and voila. Works.

[S'rrt]

Herb lore: More things to collect would be nice. It took over thirty rl minutes of nonstop work before I could get anything besides those useless berries.

That's just for the beginning, in actuality there're quite many different herbs to pick once you get good enough.

[Rekarafi]

Well, uhm...atm, mining for a single person is quite annoying without a mule that might dissapear (bug still exists?)
So you may raise the amount of ingots you get out of 1 coal and 1 ore from 1 -> 2
Its not that hard, but helps smith's alot

[Llama]

So you may raise the amount of ingots you get out of 1 coal and 1 ore from 1 -> 2

Instead I'm reducing the overkill of requirements

50 ingots for an armour is far too much.

[Damien]

Would be quite a heavy thing if it would be actual bars, but keep in mind that it takes one bar to make tiny things as well so the illarion metal bars are quite tiny too.
And yes, too many requirements for >simple< items is fun-hindering. But for >expensive< items you should indeed use more ressources. I guess that the number of bars used here has been accounted in the comparison of effectivity and the price of the armour compared to others, to balance things somewhat... well at least i hope so

[Estralis Seborian]

I guess that the number of bars used here has been accounted in the comparison of effectivity and the price of the armour compared to others, to balance things somewhat...

That does not hold at all for the current state, but it is one aim to achieve.

[Rekarafi]

So you may raise the amount of ingots you get out of 1 coal and 1 ore from 1 -> 2

Instead I'm reducing the overkill of requirements

50 ingots for an armour is far too much.

Well reducing the requirements would mean you learn less...for training you ahve to smith 2 armors instead of one then.
Maybe reduce it AND double the amount of ingots get

[Llama]

Yes that's true, but that shows that the skill system is flawed, not the crafting system.

Also, you'll have twice the armours, so you can sell those instead of having a 50% made armour which you can't bother finishing because you don't want to waste another 30 ingots + failures

[wilf]

öhm sry... i have already read it now...

I actually like it, honestly i think it needs to be a little harder.
You dont become a master of your trade in 3 years, it's something that needs to be worked at.

The aim of this game is so people have fun. Not so people spend every waking moment of their online time PGing. If you wanted to be realistic, a sword would take you 5 years to make, and you're probably throw it away.

But that's not fun.

i´ve made my own sowrd... a good fighting sword! it works!... and i made it in...öhm...3 Weeks?!

[Vern Kron]

Oh, goodie. I get to be brutally honest!
Before I start, I would like to say multicrafting is something that I do, but I did out of neccasity. Now, I do it sometimes very rarely. I never recommend it to newbies. But you can hate me for that if you want. <3

Now then,
I would like to be able to produce more then 5 pins, and then go through the proccess of redoing it all. Perhaps a "Make 50 pins" should be thrown in somewhere on smithing.

I think food consumption on gathering is a little much.
If this falls into your area, something should be done with honey gathering. Its really slow.
Experience in the later levels of atleast carpentry is painful to get, especially since no one buys what you are able to make, or it requires resources that make it absurdly expensive.
Absurdly expensive materials often fail (pure elements).
Most useful things can usually be made before the less useful things. (Serinjahs before rapiers/sabres? Really?)
People have become dependant upon the "MUST BE EXCELLENT AND NEW OR ITS TRASH!" thinking, and since this isn't going to change then perhaps the 'rank' stuff is made at should be changed.

[Arabel]

cooking: there has been lots of talk about cooking and baking recently.

quite simply, it is not worth the cooks' time to make the harder dishes and cakes because noone will buy them at realistic prices.
the present 'great diet' and 'perfect diet' is just not enticing enough to persuade chars to buy cooks' goods.
food needs to be given an extra 'kick' which will make it desirable.
I have no complaints about the cooking process... if it was easier, everyone would do it and Arabel would still be struggling to make coin
Plus, having merchants sell food so cheaply doesn't help.