Öffentliches Bild der Nordmark // Public thoughts on Nordmar

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Aelorn
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Post by Aelorn »

Olive wrote:Just my two coppers, but for the whole idea behind the norodaj, a village seems inapporpriate. maybe a hovel or two, but barbarian types generaly had a camp, somethgin that could move around, not really a permanent fixture
Barbarians are not necessarily nomads. The Wiki article about the Norodaj hasn't been translated into English yet but the German version states that they usually live in forts and villages.
Damien
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Post by Damien »

It has not been translated (yet) because noone cares. I wrote most and and translated some of the stuff, but whenever i tried to get people to help, the most people who wanted at first jumped off after a very short time.
That counts for writers as well as translators - writers just had either a very bad writing style or a very "epic" one, in the sense of eradicating existing races in illarion even before it came to the present or eradicating the whole world a few times... In short, those who could write in a good style, totally focussed on page-long "epic" battle descriptions and produced output that did not work with what the rest of the team (or, mostly Nanuk and me) had put up as a standing frame to fill.
Considering translators, there are a few that helped greatly, with some of the texts. But if you have to run after people who offered to help for months and then receive a messed-up output from some online translation tool along with the message "i didnt have the time but here's what i got" most of the time, you get kinda discuraged trying any further.

Therefore, i assume that there is either not much need or not much interest in background stuff, and decided not to put more work into a matter as senseless as that.

That means, if you want any of the yet untranslated texts translated, you'll either have to do it yourself or get motivate someone (other than me) to do it, and upload the translations into the illapedia.

Besides, the illapedia is hard to navigate, so if you don't take the map right beside it and enter the location names you find there, you'll never know that descriptions of said places even exist. We once had a forum part with the stuff posted up, but that got removed to save forum space. ;)
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nathi
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Post by nathi »

Die harte Ablehnung der Verhassten gibt zwar einen interessanten RP-Hintergrund, die Bandbreite der Möglichkeiten ist daher allerdings für Elfen und Magier ziemlich schmal. Ich gehe mal davon aus diese Regeln dienen nicht dazu grundsätzlich kein RP mit Elfen oder Magiern zu spielen, sondern dieses eher herauszufordern. Die Nordmark ist weit weg und schwer zu erreichen. Der Ort scheidet für Elfen und Magier im Prinzip aus, weil dort kaum mal jemand angetroffen wird, bzw. man sich dort gar nicht blicken lassen darf. Es wäre daher gut wenn es ausserhalb einen im öffentlichen Bild bekannten Ort gibt an denen Nordmarker vornehmlich anzutreffen sind.

Ohne jetzt die englisch sprachigen Mitspieler ausschliessen zu wollen, finde ich es persönlich gut wenn die RP der Nordmarker auf deutsch gehalten werden. Nach meiner Einschätzung läuft etwa 2/3 des Illarium-RP auf englisch. Ich gehöre zu den Spieler die auf englisch nicht so detailert emoten können, und gerade auf die kleinen Feinheiten kommt es bei einem Zusammentreffen von Elfen und Nordmarkern an finde ich. Bei den meisten anderen RP bin ich gezwungen mitten im Spiel auf englisch umzuschalten, meist leidet das RP bei mir dann darunter. Eine Mischung von englisch und deutsch im RP empfinde ich immer als sehr verwirrend. Ich kann mich mit den Nordmarker aber gerne auch in einer nordischen Sprache (meine Muttersprache) unterhalten ;-)

Unklar ist mir die Haltung der Magier und Elfen gegenüber der Nordmark. IG hört man nur "bleib fern". Nur kann das ja auch keine Lösung für spannendes RP sein. Besonders abenteuerlustige und durchtriebene Elfinen (wie mein Char) ziehen dann halt auf eigene Faust los, und das kann bei dem öffentlichen Bild der Nordmark nur schief gehen. Aber aus eigener Erfahrung kann ich sagen, die Nordmarker sind auch nur Menschen, es lohnt sich daher schon mal das Mögliche herauszufinden

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Das Auge
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Post by Das Auge »

Ich finde die Nordmark einfach klasse, auch wenn man immer hört, sie bringen ein gleich um, man kriegt die Köpfe eingeschlagen, als Magier/Elf, das stimmt nichteinmal, nein. Man hört die Gerüchte oder Gerüche und sagt dann nein danke, aber die Marker sind ne ganz liebe Gesellschaft. Sie bringen nicht gleich jemand um, sie machen nichts böses, ich finde sie toll! Und ich würde am liebsten da mit allen Chars leben :P Aber geht nicht, also die Gerüchte sind ncih berauschend, aber wer die Marker kennt, der macht gerne mit, sogar als Feind!
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Rhianna Morgan
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Post by Rhianna Morgan »

To all english speakers who said they would love to rp a Nordmarker up to now: How about you group up to a new clan and joined us up there?

I see no problem with this...

PO Vigalf (=Kranek) and myself would love to help you get started...

Just pm us if you interested. Because starting an english clan with three members did not go well the first time, but I am sure if there were more active chars around, this could go well!
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Kranek
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Post by Kranek »

Thanks to all who responded yet! Good to know that you guys enjoy our RP!!

Danke an alle die sich gemeldet haben! Gut zu wissen dass euch unser RP gefällt!!
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dwarvesarecool
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Post by dwarvesarecool »

I think Nordmark is a good idea but the playerbase is so small, even at peak times 30-40 people? Rarely anyone is in Nordmark, out of the way and can only be reached by walking. I think some more people should join empty silverbrand than a lil' village of sticks and wood.
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Kranek
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Post by Kranek »

the village is not empty
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dwarvesarecool
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Post by dwarvesarecool »

it is usually empty, everytime I go there its empty. 1 person there doesn't meAn its not empty. But I don't go there during peekk times, so I may be wrong. By the way, is there what natural resources does Nordmark have access to?
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Kranek
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Post by Kranek »

Well...when you go somewhere on a time non of that Players can be online, of course it seems empty ;)

And yes, we have ressources: a field, woods, fishes, gnolls, pigs, sheeps. enough for a living
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dwarvesarecool
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Post by dwarvesarecool »

ah, if there's no mines I guess I won't become a barbarian.
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Kranek
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Post by Kranek »

too bad...but hey...there is the Nordmine east to us ;)
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Rhianna Morgan
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Post by Rhianna Morgan »

Hmmm (tries not to mention there are like... dozens goblins between the Mark and the Mine).........ehm.... what he said ^^
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dwarvesarecool
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Post by dwarvesarecool »

does it have coal and iron? Do ye' have an anvil and furnace?
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Kranek
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Post by Kranek »

no....we smith our swords on rocks using a fireplace -.-
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dwarvesarecool
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Post by dwarvesarecool »

ah, as I suspected. :D
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Saril
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Re: Öffentliches Bild der Nordmark // Public thoughts on Nor

Post by Saril »

Kranek wrote:Ich will wissen was ihr und eure Chars über die Nordmark gehört habt, bzw. denkt.
PO:
Ich kenne die Nordmark seit dem sie gegründet wurde, somit kennt ich einiges darüber. Die Idee einer rein menschlichen Siedlung von liebhabern der Norodaj fand und finde ich gut. Leider wurde ich stutzig als ich hörte ein Zwerg lebt(-e) bei euch. Nichts gegen den Zwerg er hat da hingepasst aber es war ein Konzeptbruch.
Momentan gibt es ja eine "neue" Nordmark. Seit dem ist die Nordmark radikaler geworden, wie ich das finde kommt an passender Stelle.
Char:
Er kennt die Nordmark seit dem sie gegründet wurde, somit kennt er das was ihn interessiert darüber. Was er denkt sag ich am Ende.
Kranek wrote:Sind wir bekannt, oder verzieht man das Gesicht wenn man von uns hört?
PO:
Wie oben ersichtlich seit ihr bekannt. Mir persönlich sind schon einige abfällige Worte über die Nordmark über die Lippen gekommen. Nicht über die POs sondern mehr über die Politik.
Char:
Auch hier bekannt und er stand der Mark einst neutral gegenüber aber nun ist es eher negativ.
Kranek wrote:Wie empfindet ihr RP mit Markern, wie findet ihr das Konzept (Elfen und Magie = Bäh)?
PO:
Das RP der Marker, wenn es mal zu RP kommt, ist mehr positiv zu werten. Das einzige was ich da negativ bewerte ist der lebensmüde Rassismus. Wenn ein Märker nach Varshikar, Greenbriar oder in eine der Gilden alleine/zu zweit kommt braucht er nicht gleich Magier oder Elfen anmachen. Würde man es auf dem Festland so machen gibt es Städte wo sie sofort rausgeworfen werden, mal davon abgesehn das sie gar nicht so weit reisen.
Dieses Magie und Elfen = Bäh finde ich übertrieben. Jedenfalls die Gesetze darüber. Ich sehe es als klassische Übertreibung eines Verhaltens. Seit dem die Märker einen Vertrag mit Magiern haben, haben sie die Glaubwürdigkeit bei mir verlohren. Ob die Märker ihr Verhalten oder das mit den Vertrag ändern oder nicht ist mir aber egal.
Char:
Das sprechen mit einem Märker empfindet er als belustigend. Es kommt niemal etwas weises über ihre Lippen und mehr als Lächeln über die Aussagen oder das Verhalten eines Märkers macht er nicht. Vielleicht ignoriert er sie aujch mal vollkommen. Es sind für ihn nur bockige Kinder.
Als er das erste mal die Gesetze mit den Elfen gelesen hatte, oh ja da war er sauer, nach elfischer Manier hat sich das gelegt. Würde die Mark an einem zentraleren Platz liegen gäbe es zwei Möglichkeiten. 1. er geht drum rum und betritt oder handelt nie wieder mit einem Märker oder 2. Er geht einfach durch und ignoriert alles so als laufe er durch einen Wald oder üb er eine Wiese. Da die Mark aber nicht so gut gelegen liegt, interessiert er sich einfach nicht für sie. Gnolle jagt er auch shcon seit langem nicht mehr also ist die Mark ihm vollkommen unwichtig.
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Post by David Turner »

Honestly, Nordmark is the one town that seems to be least important and developed (assuming that you don't count Zyzathis, which can't even really be called a town with it's current level of development). Not only is it so far out of the way that it is difficult to get there (and no teleporter that I can get access to) but once I reach the doors they are always locked so there is no point in me even trying to create connections with those who remain there. I have better luck and feel more welcome walking my lizard into Silverbrand, for goodness sakes, despite the fact that the two groups (of Zyzathis and Nordmark) are supposed to be closely connected and the opposite is true between the Zyzathis and Silverbrand. From my point of view, up to this point, it seems to be the last hideout for the "German only" people now that Silverbrand has enough english speakers and bilingual people to count as being actually bilingual (rather than just theoretically or not at all bilingual). The rules there are just as strict as in Varkishir, which is why I almost never go there (seriously, I'm still not completely sure if I am breaking some Varkishir law simply by talking to a shopkeeper since their law about "conducting business" in the town is worded so broadly that it could be twisted either way). Why then would I even want to go to the town or have anything to do with it? Because it is a "barbarian" settlement? Most barbarians are orcs (who have their own town and often spend time trying to "get along" with the "long ears", however they define "getting along" to be), some are axe-happy dwarfs (who use Silverbrand), or tribalistic lizards (who are devoted first and foremost to their deity, and therefor to Zyzathis), and the remaining humans can most often pass for "hunters" or hired muscle in one of the other towns.

The ONLY thing setting this town apart and gives it any note whatsoever (assuming you don't speak German) is the outright hatred of elves and mages (despite the fact that the background description of "suspicion" of these groups generally does not equal beheading (the elves generally rp "suspicion" of orks fairly well, so it can be done)). While it does give some opportunity for roleplay, that one thing is a far cry from making it a "good town" in my way of seeing it.

PS: yeah, my views may not be popular, but please try to disagree with what I have said rather than just insult me for pointing out these things.
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Rhianna Morgan
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Post by Rhianna Morgan »

David Turner wrote:Honestly, Nordmark is the one town that seems to be least important and developed (assuming that you don't count Zyzathis, which can't even really be called a town with it's current level of development).
That is true, due to the fact that we have a small player base and are not even a TOWN, officially we are just a settlement!
David Turner wrote:Not only is it so far out of the way that it is difficult to get there (and no teleporter that I can get access to)
Yeah. And we don't have a teleporter despite the fact that our chars hate magic. They really hate it, even fear it, but well, when it comes to travelling they LOVE to use teleporters. We are so bad RPers that we use them ALL THE TIME, this is why it takes us so little time to cross the island and this is why we usually have some mage friends to make us some of our own portals just for fun... and no, OF COURSE I am far from being sarcastic here.
David Turner wrote: but once I reach the doors they are always locked so there is no point in me even trying to create connections with those who remain there.


So I guess in RL you only have friends who ever lock their doors. Seriously, dude, they are locked to keep guys like you out. Ever thought of that? Perhaps our chars love their privacy in their own home, hm?
David Turner wrote:I have better luck and feel more welcome walking my lizard into Silverbrand, for goodness sakes, despite the fact that the two groups (of Zyzathis and Nordmark) are supposed to be closely connected and the opposite is true between the Zyzathis and Silverbrand.


How about getting to us when we are ig? Most of us are on the char list. And if ye don't know who they are check it in the Nordmark board. It is not THAT hard. And btw... Ssar'ney is even a friend to Nordmark and visits every now and then. Just ask him.
David Turner wrote: From my point of view, up to this point, it seems to be the last hideout for the "German only" people now that Silverbrand has enough english speakers and bilingual people to count as being actually bilingual (rather than just theoretically or not at all bilingual).


Hmm yes, we have a lot of german chars. That is because originally the Mark was really intended to be such a hideout. But did you read above? Don't complain that we have too few english players. Sorry, but we are German, and we can do little about it. If you want to have more english speaking chars in Nordmark, play one. We started a newspeaking clan, and some of the chars are still around.
David Turner wrote:The rules there are just as strict as in Varkishir, which is why I almost never go there (seriously, I'm still not completely sure if I am breaking some Varkishir law simply by talking to a shopkeeper since their law about "conducting business" in the town is worded so broadly that it could be twisted either way). Why then would I even want to go to the town or have anything to do with it?


Is that IC our OOC now? And btw, I am sure our law is stricter than Varshikari law. Yes, it is spelled VARSHIKAR. And I ought to know, I have a char up there.
I don't know why you would want to have anything to do with Nordmark. You as a PO? Because it is fun rp ^^. You as a char? No idea who you play, so no idea why you would.
David Turner wrote:Because it is a "barbarian" settlement? Most barbarians are orcs (who have their own town and often spend time trying to "get along" with the "long ears", however they define "getting along" to be), some are axe-happy dwarfs (who use Silverbrand), or tribalistic lizards (who are devoted first and foremost to their deity, and therefor to Zyzathis), and the remaining humans can most often pass for "hunters" or hired muscle in one of the other towns.

Ehm... hm. I try to ignore the fact that you just put a human term on top of two other races. In the lizard people and in the orc nation there is no such thing as *barbarians* because they don't really make a difference. Only humans of cultural people are snobistic enough to call other people *barbarians*, orcs and lizards don't do that to each another. And yes, many barbarians work as hunters and mercenaries rather than being a librarian. Guess thats why they call them BARBARIANS.
David Turner wrote:The ONLY thing setting this town apart and gives it any note whatsoever (assuming you don't speak German) is the outright hatred of elves and mages (despite the fact that the background description of "suspicion" of these groups generally does not equal beheading (the elves generally rp "suspicion" of orks fairly well, so it can be done)). While it does give some opportunity for roleplay, that one thing is a far cry from making it a "good town" in my way of seeing it.
Well yes, in their original background, Norodaj are at least suspicious of Magic and Elves. But if they have very bad experiences, don't you think all their prejudices and all their suspicion could turn to hatred? Thank god we don't rp our chars *GENERALLY* because I think then they would not be able to have any char development, and well, that is some sort of very bad rp.
As for the beheading part... the only one who is totally into it is Vigalf, and he is the Jarl, so everyone else is okay with it ^^. And for him this sort of cruelity is totally normal, given his PERSONAL background. As for his first wife, Rhianna (yes, that is my char in case you wonder) she was first against all this violence, but since her family was almost destroyed by magic, magic-using elves to be exact. she is not that humane either. Because you see, family was all that mattered to her. In her case it is not bloodlust, it is her way of protecting her children, and yes, she would kill to do so. She learned that this is the best way a long time ago.
David Turner wrote:PS: yeah, my views may not be popular, but please try to disagree with what I have said rather than just insult me for pointing out these things.
Guess that was enough disagreement? I felt really like insulting you because perhaps next time you actually try to get a real impression of a group of players before you complain about them.
But then I felt like you don't deserve me getting angry about you, so I think I will just shrug it off *shrugs*. Have a nice and thoughtfull evening over there.
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Kranek
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Post by Kranek »

David Turner wrote: Honestly, Nordmark is the one town that seems to be least important and developed (assuming that you don't count Zyzathis, which can't even really be called a town with it's current level of development).
How do you define development?
David Turner wrote: Not only is it so far out of the way that it is difficult to get there
Thats the way it was planned
David Turner wrote: (and no teleporter that I can get access to)
We cant stand magic, why should we have a teleporter??
David Turner wrote: but once I reach the doors they are always locked
because of people that go there without any rp-ressons to use our tools, fields and our hurdling
David Turner wrote: so there is no point in me even trying to create connections with those who remain there.
Maybe looking for some people on the onlinelist or a short PM would help, I am not online 24/7 just in case you could visit us
David Turner wrote: From my point of view, up to this point, it seems to be the last hideout for the "German only"
Read the damn thread, we offered every english-speaking person to join us as soon as they have enough people to create their own clan. There is absolutely NO way we start to RP in english just for one char joining us.
David Turner wrote: The rules there are just as strict as in Varkishir, which is why I almost never go there
(seriously, I'm still not completely sure if I am breaking some Varkishir law simply by talking to a shopkeeper since their law about "conducting business" in the town is worded so broadly that it could be twisted either way).
I don't care about VarshikAr. We are speaking of Nordmark
David Turner wrote: Why then would I even want to go to the town or have anything to do with it?
Why would I want to do anything with you?
David Turner wrote: Because it is a "barbarian" settlement?
Norodaj....it's Norodaj!
David Turner wrote: Most barbarians are orcs (who have their own town and often spend time trying to "get along" with the "long ears", however they define "getting along" to be), some are axe-happy dwarfs (who use Silverbrand), or tribalistic lizards (who are devoted first and foremost to their deity, and therefor to Zyzathis), and the remaining humans can most often pass for "hunters" or hired muscle in one of the other towns.
Yes...being a mage or teacher wouldn't suit the chars.
David Turner wrote: The ONLY thing setting this town apart and gives it any note whatsoever (assuming you don't speak German) is the outright hatred of elves and mages (despite the fact that the background description of "suspicion" of these groups generally does not equal beheading (the elves generally rp "suspicion" of orks fairly well, so it can be done)). While it does give some opportunity for roleplay, that one thing is a far cry from making it a "good town" in my way of seeing it.
Yes, of course...our chars NEVER had any personal experiences and will ALWAYS act like the background describes...-.-
David Turner wrote: PS: yeah, my views may not be popular, but please try to disagree with what I have said rather than just insult me for pointing out these things.
Done
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Rhianna Morgan
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Post by Rhianna Morgan »

ROFL.

*offers her fiance a high-five*
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Kranek
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Post by Kranek »

Seems he got nitramized
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Rhianna Morgan
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Post by Rhianna Morgan »

twice. eventually XD
Eadgar
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Post by Eadgar »

I'm in the same boat as MoonDust, I thought it was for German POs and, since I don't know German, I've been leaving well enough alone. One of my chars stumbled nearby when he got lost in the forest... but he saw the signs and went the other way because he was (at the time) trying to figure out a way to become a warlock.
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Post by David Turner »

So what did you really want, the truth or someone to agree with you? You asked my opinion and I gave it, so it isn't my fault if you can't handle it. If you feel like trying to attack my words simply because you don't like them than that is your own immaturity. Besides, some of the things written in response were just petty and childish, like the whole disagreement over the use of the term "barbarian".

I understand that a lot of things have actual reasons for them (ie: no teleporter, out of the way location, locked doors, etc.) but that doesn't make it any easier to have good RP with the characters or a real connection to the town itself. Even the beheading thing has a reason somewhere (one of you mentioned it) but that also doesn't make the town easier to RP with. That was part of the original question, correct?

As for going out of my way to have my character make connections with people from Nordmark, if there is a specific IG reason than he will. I'm not going to have him use the online list (which he should have absolutely no knowledge about or access to) in order to create a connection (because a player told me to) by sending a letter to someone whom he doesn't know (or know how to contact directly) despite the fact that he has no pressing reason (IC reason, that is). That would just be bad RP.

As for the "german only" thing, I think it is probably a good thing since, with the large number of "english only" people and bilingual people who end up having to speak english in order to be understood by the majority of the group, there is a real danger of the "german only" speakers being crowded out. I have RPed translation before and find no problem with RPing it again if my character has some reason to need to do that, so it really isn't a big problem for me.

Finally, let me say one last thing in answer to your original question: "How do you see RP with a Marker?" If the specific Marker characters are half as arrogant as you two are, asking for an opinion and then attacking the only person who gives a serious answer that you don't like, than I am glad to not RP with them and look forward to the day when they similarly don't like the answer of someone who happens to be more powerful. As for more balanced characters who happen to be Markers, I would be glad to RP with them on whatever occasion might present itself. Also, I should probably point out that it is a serious offense to let ooc opinions of the player affect your ic interactions with a character, people can get banned for that type of stuff.
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Post by Grokk »

David Turner wrote:So what did you really want, the truth or someone to agree with you?
Well I don't think they wanted a hostile post that attacked their guild, their characters and themselves as POs, and repeatedly blurred the lines between OOC and IC.
David Turner wrote:You asked my opinion and I gave it, so it isn't my fault if you can't handle it. If you feel like trying to attack my words simply because you don't like them than that is your own immaturity.
Of course they didn't like your words. Your opinion was pretty much "#&$@ you Nordmark", you just took several hundred words to get it across. What did you expect them to say?
David Turner wrote:I understand that a lot of things have actual reasons for them ...yadda yadda yadda... That would just be bad RP.
You dart in and out of character whenever it seems to suit. You refuse to use the online list as it would be bad RP. That is fair enough. You would rather wander around for hours looking for someone to RP with. But you then won't go to Nordmark because it takes you too long to get there, you can't find any PCs, and the doors are locked. That is bad RP.
David Turner wrote:Finally, let me say one last thing in answer to your original question: "How do you see RP with a Marker?" If the specific Marker characters are half as arrogant as you two are, asking for an opinion and then attacking the only person who gives a serious answer that you don't like, than I am glad to not RP with them and look forward to the day when they similarly don't like the answer of someone who happens to be more powerful.
David Turner wrote:Also, I should probably point out that it is a serious offense to let ooc opinions of the player affect your ic interactions with a character, people can get banned for that type of stuff.
Wait, so...this is goodbye?
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Sammy Goldlieb
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Post by Sammy Goldlieb »

Eadgar wrote:I'm in the same boat as MoonDust, I thought it was for German POs and, since I don't know German, I've been leaving well enough alone.
That is no excuswe...we learned english to, so learn german:D
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Kranek
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Post by Kranek »

The problem with bilingual is the fact that its not always easy for us to play in english. We learned it and sometimes its hard to express the things we want to say in another language...and i dont want to rp in english just because 1 Char joined a group of many german speaking chars, sry
Eadgar
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:57 am

Post by Eadgar »

Celdea wrote:That is no excuswe...we learned english to, so learn german:D
I already learned French, Occitan, Anglo-Saxon, Catalan and I'm about to have to tackle Italian. I'm lucky I can still speak English properly; because if I try to speak any one of the other languages I know, you get a very wonderful pidgin of whatever language I'm trying to speak and all the others that are related to it...

I don't think you want me freely mixing German with words from other languages. The result would be bad...
Olive
Posts: 381
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 7:30 am
Location: Hell

Post by Olive »

Kranek wrote: i dont want to rp in english just because 1 Char joined a group of many german speaking chars, sry
and because of that, you make it almost impossible to even GET the first english speaker to even try.
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