New Guard NPCs
Moderator: Gamemasters
Finally! Someone who purposefully read what I said.Keikan Hiru wrote:Stop being silly Juliana, by trying to create a problem when there is none.
What everybody is asking of you, the "temple players", is that you accept that there is a place that is outright dangerous for you to hang out, no matter how yellow your skills are.
And what Mesha wants you to understand is, that if you plan to make an event based arround, or in TB, that you notify any GM before hand.
So the brain-dead-deco-guards can be removed or otherwise modified to create the propper stage for your play.
Geez ...
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Damien
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I've seen an online RP game which has a rule that "evil" characters are not allowed to be played by players because many players mistook playing an evil character for being an arse OOC. "Evil" things or groups there are GM-steered NPCs and monsters only. They have a much more relaxed atmosphere on their boards as well.
Seriously, many players are playing "evil" just because they think it's cool, or because friends of them think so and persuaded them. And too few of those playing "evil" chars can demonstrate that they know that when roleplaying, you should play to make everyone else also have fun, not to win or "pwn everyone". Such players will only annoy other players if they are allowed (or persuaded) to play an "evil"-schemed character.
In illa, it happens sporadically that newbies or even older players leave the game because their characters walk through a town they need to visit and get robbed or threatened by powergamed villains or criminals there repeatedly. Whole groups of players have left illarion in the past because some "evil" or just "powerhungry" guild provoked, threatened or declared war on them, pked their chars ingame and when they fought or even pked back, they made such an OOC fuss about it that the other players just got annoyed and left, at least for a while (most permanently).
Therefore, i do see a big need for at least one big area that is usually safe and at least mainly free of "villains", no matter if they are played well or bad.
It is a player's own choice to play a char as a murderer or other criminal, and since it's an own choice that the staff allows the players to make here, those who decide for that option should not complain if the staff grants their potential victims a few zones where they can be somewhat safe and which said villain chars are not able to enter risk-free.
By the way : In a game named "Era Online" - yes, that has been a few years ago - they had at least two main fractions which both owned big areas. NPCs in one area would attack players belonging to the other and traders would not speak with them if they managed to sneak by the guards (which was possible, if you did not enter guarded or densely populated areas).
The one side was "light"- themed, the other "dark"- themed. There were guilds of both types around, and the players did not cause such a fuss amongst each other as it happens here in illa sometimes. I do think that such a solution could be a very smart one, in the long run, but would require a larger main map.
Seriously, many players are playing "evil" just because they think it's cool, or because friends of them think so and persuaded them. And too few of those playing "evil" chars can demonstrate that they know that when roleplaying, you should play to make everyone else also have fun, not to win or "pwn everyone". Such players will only annoy other players if they are allowed (or persuaded) to play an "evil"-schemed character.
In illa, it happens sporadically that newbies or even older players leave the game because their characters walk through a town they need to visit and get robbed or threatened by powergamed villains or criminals there repeatedly. Whole groups of players have left illarion in the past because some "evil" or just "powerhungry" guild provoked, threatened or declared war on them, pked their chars ingame and when they fought or even pked back, they made such an OOC fuss about it that the other players just got annoyed and left, at least for a while (most permanently).
Therefore, i do see a big need for at least one big area that is usually safe and at least mainly free of "villains", no matter if they are played well or bad.
It is a player's own choice to play a char as a murderer or other criminal, and since it's an own choice that the staff allows the players to make here, those who decide for that option should not complain if the staff grants their potential victims a few zones where they can be somewhat safe and which said villain chars are not able to enter risk-free.
By the way : In a game named "Era Online" - yes, that has been a few years ago - they had at least two main fractions which both owned big areas. NPCs in one area would attack players belonging to the other and traders would not speak with them if they managed to sneak by the guards (which was possible, if you did not enter guarded or densely populated areas).
The one side was "light"- themed, the other "dark"- themed. There were guilds of both types around, and the players did not cause such a fuss amongst each other as it happens here in illa sometimes. I do think that such a solution could be a very smart one, in the long run, but would require a larger main map.
Last edited by Damien on Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Damien
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Another two very important things :
1. As a player of a strong character, i automatically have a greater responsibility for the community.
A part of this responsibility is also to make newbies and other players feel welcome in the game.
2. Just acting for my own fun at the cost of other player's fun will not make them like the game.
And not make them feel welcome either. It will just annoy them.
By the way, robbing or capturing and torturing a newbie does also not count as a warm welcome.
1. As a player of a strong character, i automatically have a greater responsibility for the community.
A part of this responsibility is also to make newbies and other players feel welcome in the game.
2. Just acting for my own fun at the cost of other player's fun will not make them like the game.
And not make them feel welcome either. It will just annoy them.
By the way, robbing or capturing and torturing a newbie does also not count as a warm welcome.
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Dantagon Marescot
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I'm not picking sides here, but instead want to ask why now? People have been asking for something similar to this for years back when TB was player controlled. Why is it now that there is an "army" of soldiers in Bane, that this is finally being implemented? Or is it just because it has taken til now for the script to be created?
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Juliana D'cheyne
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Thank you Damien, that makes more sense then Salk prince/guards etc. (at least IMO), those that wish for less restrictive RP can leave TB alone or have the event planned.Therefore, i do see a big need for at least one big area that is usually safe and at least mainly free of "villains", no matter if they are played well or bad.
Uh, you mean the 'real guards which PK badguys' script? Probably because GMs are responsable enough to wield that power - while player characters aren't?Dantagon Marescot wrote:I'm not picking sides here, but instead want to ask why now? People have been asking for something similar to this for years back when TB was player controlled. Why is it now that there is an "army" of soldiers in Bane, that this is finally being implemented? Or is it just because it has taken til now for the script to be created?
I mean , you're giving someone the ability to insta-kill a victim - with all the balancing things, and safety nets and stuff you'd need to put in...
No one ever said that the guards would be ignored. Mesha made it seem like the temple members have no hope of defeating the guards and said if we were in town that we should feel free to get out now. It seems like the prince and his men don't want to be or care to be informed about the temple. And Damien, if you think the temple go around spoiling fun of their victims you are misinformed. Your pokes at the temple members are a bit insulting.
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Alexander Knight
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Guys can i ask something? WHO CARES!!!
God if you really wanna walk through town then RP sneaking past the guards, after all this is a RP game!!!
It will take a few seconds and will add more pleasure to the game.
I'm like one of the most firey and annoying people on this board but i still find no reason to complain. Your banned GET OVER IT!!
If you wanna be evil the expect consequences, i mean you didnt see saddam hussain sitting in his hole crying saying "I want my mummy (Mommy if your in the us
)
And has nothing to do with ooc... Just remember who is like the princes right hand man.. Geralt and who does Geralt hate and has fought for the last year? Temple... So is it possible that Geralt has spoke to the Prince about the temple?
Heres a quote for all you annoying players... "Grow some balls and get the F*** over it!"
God if you really wanna walk through town then RP sneaking past the guards, after all this is a RP game!!!
It will take a few seconds and will add more pleasure to the game.
I'm like one of the most firey and annoying people on this board but i still find no reason to complain. Your banned GET OVER IT!!
If you wanna be evil the expect consequences, i mean you didnt see saddam hussain sitting in his hole crying saying "I want my mummy (Mommy if your in the us
)And has nothing to do with ooc... Just remember who is like the princes right hand man.. Geralt and who does Geralt hate and has fought for the last year? Temple... So is it possible that Geralt has spoke to the Prince about the temple?
Heres a quote for all you annoying players... "Grow some balls and get the F*** over it!"
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Galim
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I think its funny how the players of criminal characters do believe that two guards standing at a towngate wont look under the hood of a man entering the town with his face being hidden. Especially when they just had a war and are looking out for evil templemembers and those who still fight against them.
Honestly guys...start thinking...please....stay fair...
Salkamaerian guards WILL controle who is under that hood! Especially when that one is armed and wearing armor...
p.s.
and laughing into a playercharacter guard's face infront of the npc guards, saying that those doesnt get paid enough cause they dont help...is not the best behaviour either...
Some wont be happy with those npc guards...but that is no reason to ignore them...since the gm's put them ig we players should pay them respect and handle them like any other player char
Honestly guys...start thinking...please....stay fair...
Salkamaerian guards WILL controle who is under that hood! Especially when that one is armed and wearing armor...
p.s.
and laughing into a playercharacter guard's face infront of the npc guards, saying that those doesnt get paid enough cause they dont help...is not the best behaviour either...
Some wont be happy with those npc guards...but that is no reason to ignore them...since the gm's put them ig we players should pay them respect and handle them like any other player char
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Alexander Knight
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Alexander Knight
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Joxia Doral
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@ Alexander: I think you are missing some of the point...but you are not the only one.Alexander Knight wrote:Guys can i ask something? WHO CARES!!!
God if you really wanna walk through town then RP sneaking past the guards, after all this is a RP game!!!
It will take a few seconds and will add more pleasure to the game.
I'm like one of the most firey and annoying people on this board but i still find no reason to complain. Your banned GET OVER IT!!
If you wanna be evil the expect consequences, i mean you didnt see saddam hussain sitting in his hole crying saying "I want my mummy (Mommy if your in the us
And has nothing to do with ooc... Just remember who is like the princes right hand man.. Geralt and who does Geralt hate and has fought for the last year? Temple... So is it possible that Geralt has spoke to the Prince about the temple?
Heres a quote for all you annoying players... "Grow some balls and get the F*** over it!"
We have been RPing sneaking around. We are VERY aware of the consequences but we had not done anything wrong to deserve to be banned as YET. And yes we know quite well about Geralt and know that he poisoned the prince against us with half truths and lies and assumptions that no longer apply to us. And you said yourself you are one one of the most annoying people on this board... cant handle a little competition when others want a turn? And I dont think that lack of balls is a problem here. 
GALIM SAID:
I think its funny how the players of criminal characters do believe that two guards standing at a towngate wont look under the hood of a man entering the town with his face being hidden. Especially when they just had a war and are looking out for evil templemembers and those who still fight against them.
Honestly guys...start thinking...please....stay fair...
Salkamaerian guards WILL controle who is under that hood! Especially when that one is armed and wearing armor..
@Galim~ It sounds like you are suggesting that we should stop at the gate and RP with a guard that wont RP back if we happen to try and enter town when no others are around to stop us..."Oh Mr Guard...did you say something? you want me to remove my hood so you can see my face?"...That is just silly... rather than simply RPing a way of slipping past them. As I pointed out to Alexander I honestly dont feel that there was a legitimate reason for banning Temple members...YETWe had not been causing any trouble so far.
LRMY WROTE:
No one ever said that the guards would be ignored. Mesha made it seem like the temple members have no hope of defeating the guards and said if we were in town that we should feel free to get out now. It seems like the prince and his men don't want to be or care to be informed about the temple. And Damien, if you think the temple go around spoiling fun of their victims you are misinformed. Your pokes at the temple members are a bit insulting.
SIGNED
PS~ If we stay away from Bane, then what will the guards have to do? And we will have nothing better to do than to PG *g* xD
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Keikan Hiru
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Finally accept the fame, or ill-fame, that the name "The Temple" as earned itself over the course of time.
Standing up as players , what I have read several times here, and demanding:
"Hey look, they are the same characters, using the same name for thier organisation, living in the same gloomy place, serving the same dark god(s), but we think we deserve a amnesty since we have been nice for two weeks. And because you are the new guy here."
is not going to work.
There is something like consitency, which I have found often lacking in roleplay.
If your character does something, other characters will and should remember this and this is not to be erased by player of said character stateing "I have laid low for a couple of weeks. My characters deserves a new white west."
You cannot be the on/off villian like you make it sound.
@Joxia
Quoting works with the [quote] [/quote] - tags.
Standing up as players , what I have read several times here, and demanding:
"Hey look, they are the same characters, using the same name for thier organisation, living in the same gloomy place, serving the same dark god(s), but we think we deserve a amnesty since we have been nice for two weeks. And because you are the new guy here."
is not going to work.
There is something like consitency, which I have found often lacking in roleplay.
If your character does something, other characters will and should remember this and this is not to be erased by player of said character stateing "I have laid low for a couple of weeks. My characters deserves a new white west."
You cannot be the on/off villian like you make it sound.
@Joxia
Quoting works with the [quote] [/quote] - tags.
Like Alsaya said, like real guards of course. Treating them like statues is quite arrogant in my opinion, it's bad RP to leave out the designated guards just because they don't do much game-wise.Alexander Knight wrote:That was me... How else are you meant to RP them lolGalim wrote: and laughing into a playercharacter guard's face infront of the npc guards, saying that those doesnt get paid enough cause they dont help...is not the best behaviour either...
Also you made it sound like you expected to get away with playing out the NPC guards. Again, bad RP. If the guards are said to be there to keep order and prevent banned people from entering, that is how we should RP them. I see no other options, really.
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Greisling
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-signedKeikan wrote:There is something like consitency, which I have found often lacking in roleplay.
If your character does something, other characters will and should remember this and this is not to be erased by player of said character stateing "I have laid low for a couple of weeks. My characters deserves a new white west."
It's a RP game after all. So deal with the role and reputation of your character and the consequences.
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Galim
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No, i suggest that you won't be able to slip past two well trained salkamaerian guards/soldiers standing left and right of a gate, watching over it and controlling everyone who enters. That has nothing to do with the right rp...but with common sense and fair play.@Galim~ It sounds like you are suggesting that we should stop at the gate and RP with a guard that wont RP back if we happen to try and enter town when no others are around to stop us..."Oh Mr Guard...did you say something? you want me to remove my hood so you can see my face?"...That is just silly... rather than simply RPing a way of slipping past them. As I pointed out to Alexander I honestly dont feel that there was a legitimate reason for banning Temple members...YETWe had not been causing any trouble so far.
And the other problem is...it is 100 % unimportant how much you believe ooc that the ban on the temple is unjustified...you got banned ingame, so live with it. If you ignore the npc guards cause you OOC think that was not fair...then you are breaking the rules in my eyes. Since you are meddling your ooc with your ic.
As Keikan said...YOU have chosen to be a temple member. YOU have chosen to keep the name "Temple", implying you guys to be a bunch of evil god whorshippers doing sacrifices and all. YOU have chosen to be the bad guys...so accept it IC and OOC. If you can't take it being hunted as a temple member, then you shouldnt have joined it or made a character for it. And it doesnt matter if all that is true or not, cause ingame, it is true in the eyes of the characters. And that is all which counts...what the characters think and believe. Live with it, accept it...respect it.
But if you can't...then maybe making a new character and having some out of temple RP is the best choice for you, probably.
And again...well trained guards protecting a town in which their prince lives...looking ACTIVELY out for members of the temple and criminals who try to overthrow the prince...THEY WILL controle everyone who enters the town through the gates and whose face can't be seen.
Of course you, Joxia, could simply teleport yourself into town. Either through a portal or with teleporting over the river in the west. But then you should also be aware that the guards standing around inside of the town will controle peoples aswell when those look suspicious.
Alright, as fun as it is to read all this fine Temple bashing once again I think it is time I stepped in and said a few words.
Firstly I'd like to mention that much of the argument from Temple players here stems from the fact the whole affair, (and indeed this thread) smacks of OOC prejudice against Temple players. Not only has it been insinuated more times than I can count that we are somehow poor roleplayers and beneath the rest of the community, it is flat out demanded that we play ball quitely and politely when no-one is prepared to play ball with us.
I'd like to bring attention back to an incident that happened a few months ago that I think really highlights these double standards. When Avalyon prepared his 'suprise' attack against us he brought many of the 'good' players along with him. Including the characters of a GM or two. No-where in the entire ordeal were we informed OOC about the attack, let alone asked if such an intrusive and frankly, unco-operative piece of roleplay was alright by us. We managed to find out anyway, and prepare accordingly and when we were victorious nothing more was mentioned about the incident. It was just completely overlooked as never having happened. Presumably because the outcome was not the intended one. I have no doubts that should we have lost it would have been the end of the Temple and we would have had GM's forcing us to disband permanently.
And yet, when the tables are turned, we are yelled at and insulted when we even mention we don't want to lay bare all our plans for public scrutiny. We have suddenly become bad players because we have not lavished upon you a luxury that we are never spared.
But it is because you play evil characters and villains I hear you scream at your monitors. To which my response would be to ask if it isnt you that are now mixing IC and OOC. Certainly ingame we are perceived as villains by the prince but I fail to see why this should have any special ramifications on the way in which we operate as players. We still play by the rules and I think it is unfair that any exceptions are made for a particular group based on their IC history.
As for the banning itself, I have no grievances with. I have always encouraged members to stay away from Bane, particularly when they have been banned. And I will continue to do so here. That said I think it is important for the GM's to understand that, IC events or not, Trollsbane is the hub of activity in the entire game. Banning a particular group from the town effectively excludes them from any roleplay at all. And giving GM support to that is effectively sending the message that "We do not want your contribution to the game" to any and all Temple members.
Certainly I am prepared to play ball for now, and I can trust other players to act with a similar level of maturity. But it is important for the GM's to understand where the frustration comes from, without dismissing it outright.
As an aside, while I am at it, let me address some of the common misconceptions about the Temple that are often thrown up as evidence against us.
1.) We are not a quest group.
2.) We do not worship ANY gods.
3.) Joxia cannot teleport! (I don't even know where this came from.)
4.) We are not a PK guild.
5.) We are not created to play villains for your entertainment.
What we are infact, is a loose collection of characters who work together for the collective good. For us, the end justifies the means and so while we may commit 'evil' acts, we also commit 'good' ones. It is certainly not our purpose to be an evil guild.
Please learn your facts if you are going to bring them up in arguments about us.
Firstly I'd like to mention that much of the argument from Temple players here stems from the fact the whole affair, (and indeed this thread) smacks of OOC prejudice against Temple players. Not only has it been insinuated more times than I can count that we are somehow poor roleplayers and beneath the rest of the community, it is flat out demanded that we play ball quitely and politely when no-one is prepared to play ball with us.
I'd like to bring attention back to an incident that happened a few months ago that I think really highlights these double standards. When Avalyon prepared his 'suprise' attack against us he brought many of the 'good' players along with him. Including the characters of a GM or two. No-where in the entire ordeal were we informed OOC about the attack, let alone asked if such an intrusive and frankly, unco-operative piece of roleplay was alright by us. We managed to find out anyway, and prepare accordingly and when we were victorious nothing more was mentioned about the incident. It was just completely overlooked as never having happened. Presumably because the outcome was not the intended one. I have no doubts that should we have lost it would have been the end of the Temple and we would have had GM's forcing us to disband permanently.
And yet, when the tables are turned, we are yelled at and insulted when we even mention we don't want to lay bare all our plans for public scrutiny. We have suddenly become bad players because we have not lavished upon you a luxury that we are never spared.
But it is because you play evil characters and villains I hear you scream at your monitors. To which my response would be to ask if it isnt you that are now mixing IC and OOC. Certainly ingame we are perceived as villains by the prince but I fail to see why this should have any special ramifications on the way in which we operate as players. We still play by the rules and I think it is unfair that any exceptions are made for a particular group based on their IC history.
As for the banning itself, I have no grievances with. I have always encouraged members to stay away from Bane, particularly when they have been banned. And I will continue to do so here. That said I think it is important for the GM's to understand that, IC events or not, Trollsbane is the hub of activity in the entire game. Banning a particular group from the town effectively excludes them from any roleplay at all. And giving GM support to that is effectively sending the message that "We do not want your contribution to the game" to any and all Temple members.
Certainly I am prepared to play ball for now, and I can trust other players to act with a similar level of maturity. But it is important for the GM's to understand where the frustration comes from, without dismissing it outright.
As an aside, while I am at it, let me address some of the common misconceptions about the Temple that are often thrown up as evidence against us.
1.) We are not a quest group.
2.) We do not worship ANY gods.
3.) Joxia cannot teleport! (I don't even know where this came from.)
4.) We are not a PK guild.
5.) We are not created to play villains for your entertainment.
What we are infact, is a loose collection of characters who work together for the collective good. For us, the end justifies the means and so while we may commit 'evil' acts, we also commit 'good' ones. It is certainly not our purpose to be an evil guild.
Please learn your facts if you are going to bring them up in arguments about us.
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Galim
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Maybe it would have been smarter then to NOT call yourself temple again? After all the name "Temple" IS the name of a group of the past who whorshipped moshran, used undeads for their own and were lead by an evil lich. "Temple" even states on itself that you are a religious group...
So know what? if you try to form a neutral group with the name of an evil group...you shouldnt complain about getting understood wrong. for the peoples ingame it doesnt count what you are doing...but what comes with the name. You still have the old name of the evil group, you still own the very same area of the evil group, called "HELLbriar". You even have some of the members left, like Verdazar...it is no wonder and no surprise when that group is still branded as "evil" ingame. And seen as an overall danger.
and it is also a fact that the temple, old and new, did commit many things which are either a crime, or a disturbance to other groups ingame...so you shouldnt be surprised if it gots a really bad fame.
and this isnt meant as "temple bashing", but simply as stating some fact. And the whole topic isnt against the temple alone. Alexander is not from the temple. Its a topic meant for every criminal banned from trollsbane...it turned out to be a temple centered topic since the players with chars in it argued the most against the whole thing until now. And THAT should make you think...how comes that the temple...being not the only characters ingame banned, outlawed and affect by this new guards, argues the most and the loudest against npc guards keeping those out of town who always come back once they are banned?
So know what? if you try to form a neutral group with the name of an evil group...you shouldnt complain about getting understood wrong. for the peoples ingame it doesnt count what you are doing...but what comes with the name. You still have the old name of the evil group, you still own the very same area of the evil group, called "HELLbriar". You even have some of the members left, like Verdazar...it is no wonder and no surprise when that group is still branded as "evil" ingame. And seen as an overall danger.
and it is also a fact that the temple, old and new, did commit many things which are either a crime, or a disturbance to other groups ingame...so you shouldnt be surprised if it gots a really bad fame.
and this isnt meant as "temple bashing", but simply as stating some fact. And the whole topic isnt against the temple alone. Alexander is not from the temple. Its a topic meant for every criminal banned from trollsbane...it turned out to be a temple centered topic since the players with chars in it argued the most against the whole thing until now
. And THAT should make you think...how comes that the temple...being not the only characters ingame banned, outlawed and affect by this new guards, argues the most and the loudest against npc guards keeping those out of town who always come back once they are banned?I completely understand the ramifications of keeping the name from an INGAME perspective yes.
However I was trying to address the OOC misconceptions.
When characters say, "The Temple is evil they worship dark gods." that is completely fine of course.
When you argue from an OOC perspective and say, "The Temple is evil they worship dark gods." I object because it is simply not true. And as it is not true, there can be no argument based around it.
However I was trying to address the OOC misconceptions.
When characters say, "The Temple is evil they worship dark gods." that is completely fine of course.
When you argue from an OOC perspective and say, "The Temple is evil they worship dark gods." I object because it is simply not true. And as it is not true, there can be no argument based around it.
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rakust dorenstkzul
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