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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Damien that logic is pretty flawed indeed.

Who would win? 6000 soldiers (half of which are unskilled) against 48 thousand well trained troops?

Its not always as simple as that

Now I'm not complaining about anything, but that argument is pretty bad, especially since TB is a walled city which had barricades all over the place.
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Post by Damien »

My logic doesn't matter, yours does not even, what matters is what the staff decided, and they will do that no matter what you and me say.
And of course it's quite likely that a prince has troops which are elitary. Plus, spawning 50.000 weak NPCs instead of 100 that are as strong or stronger than players, well, the server would die much earlier.

It's just a way of viewpoints, however. But you're right on the flaw. In this tale, the town defenders are not the heroes, but the glorious salkamaerian troops who free the town and establish peace throughout the lands... so, we should better call the "hero" in the V.S. thing "anti-hero dumb enough to face the military elite of an empire all by himself". XD



@Hadrian : troll's bane has much smaller defenses than Malta, and they had more than 50 defenders !
(Keep in mind : TB = smalltown) XD
Last edited by Damien on Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Athian
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Post by Athian »

Damien wrote:Its very simple logic. There's nothing bout superheroes. Just compare these two :


Self-trained hero / bandit / mercenary person with own equipment grown up in a very remote area

V.S.

professionally trained, heavily armed veteran/elite soldier with elitary equipment (royalty regiment)


Ladies and gentlemen,
Who do you think will win ?
What i see here is a matter of implication...

We have people from all walks of life coming from Trollsbane from the mainlands. These people many times were warriors, soldiers, knights and other such things. The moment you typed what you did you basically said:

I disregard any personal backgrounds of any characters
Your skills are inferior because you now live on Gobiath
Your training can't be nearly as good because you live on Gobiath
Your ability to craft armor is inferior because you live on Gobiath
Your ability to forge weapons are inferior because you live on Gobiath
You can't be anything but a rouge or a mercenary(merc are VERY skilled actually. fighting is their business) or a loser because you live on Gobaith

I don't mind losing. But i do mind you undermining the players and the characters they worked hard to develop just because you are going to win... They know they aren't going to beat the vast Salkamarian army and its trained warriors. We don't need a fanboy of his own story constantly reminding us of the fact that we are inferior in every way to a kingdom that has been nothing but a Cameo guest spot on Gobiath for the past 9 years.

Stop brow beating everyone >< it's not fun or funny.
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Post by Damien »

And still, if Troll's bane has five or ten characters who have been elite soldiers and prime generals with tactical experience in several battles, Salkamar has more of those, and some of their best will be in the regiments of their royalty.
So Troll's Bane's heroes are also outnumbered by salkamaerian heroes, if you want to fight it out on the basic logic.
;o)

But that leads away from the topic further and further !

I've tried to give a few of the arguments i heard which stand for a staff-ruled town, do with them what you like.
I myself find them pretty weightful, and i have to agree with the staff on this matter, but that is my opinion and you have yours.

I just have to say : the staff does it how they do it anyway, and it will most likely be a benefit for the whole game. At least that's the intention.

P.S.:
Fanboy. That's a good one. By now, i know by myself that it was a complete waste of time and effort to write any background stuff for this community. But instead trying to insult me, go insult yourself, you good old weirdo. Or put your power into something creative and write something better. ;o)
Last edited by Damien on Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by AlexRose »

@Damien: A "Hero" is a main character. For instance, Macbeth is the hero of "Macbeth", even though he's a villain.

In the same way, the focus is on the characters of the players. Those are the heroes of illarion, even if their 'cause is supposedly meant to be deemed to be the evil one.
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Post by Damien »

Call them anti-heroes then, if you like. But that still is hair-splitting. And senseless arguments, for neither you nor me have a weight in this decision.
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Post by Athian »

AlexRose wrote:@Damien: A "Hero" is a main character. For instance, Macbeth is the hero of "Macbeth", even though he's a villain.

In the same way, the focus is on the characters of the players. Those are the heroes of illarion, even if their 'cause is supposedly meant to be deemed to be the evil one.
/signed


I'm not against losing to superior numbers. I'm not against losing to superior technology. I wouldn't have cared to much if the staff just took over out of the blue ^^ the RP consquence of our player actions have n effect and the war is it.

I don't want to hear opinions like "Gobiath loses because they are a bunch of untrained backwards heathens who don't know one end of the sword form the other."

Somehow i get the feeling that to you Damien Gobiath is exactly the same as it was when it started. the land and the people have not evolved or adapted or grown in any way. I beg to differ and i hope the continuation of this quest will focus more on things other then "Crush puny, powerless Trollsbaners" It could yet turn out to be our funnest quest ever. But we'll see how it goes.

p.s. i hope from this point on we can do a bit more motion in the future of Illarion
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Post by Damien »

We sure will.
But you got me wrong on that. I don't want to say that TB's people are bad. Just that they're kinda very outweighted, and up to a point where starting a war from their initiative and even insulting and provoking it is almost laughable, considering the odds which are to expect.

If people would think more into their characters, they would not think like : "i will put up a fight because it is a fight, no matter if i can loose my life and everything". They might think like "the odds are really bad, we cannot win, so what the hell can we do else that makes us NOT loose everything ?" they will want to protect or at least not to endanger their friends and stuff, and well. That's an aspect which is quite overseen because there can be some action.
But then again, what is a game without some action, while the other option would be boring diplomacy ! So from player's view, the actions TB took are reasonable as well. Just not from the view of the characters.
;)
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Post by Nitram »

Just you know regarding the "many mages".

I don't know how the players were organized and all. But this is how your enemies were spawned.
They were always spawned in predefined groups... regiments.

One regiment contains:
7 swords men
3 archers
2 mages
1 officer

the first time you got pwned you faced 3 regiments. So "only" 6 mages. And the mages were the only one who were able to cast.

But due your impressive "defence" you focused the attacks of 3 swords men, 9 archers and 6 mages at one spot. Do the math how long one character can stand this. And the normal swords men were not "that" strong. About 60% of the skills and the attributes of a randomly chosen player warrior character.
The mages well... their spells had 1/4 of the strength of the spells the players are allowed to use.
The archers are pretty good. But the shoot at a low rate and on distance! :O

The officer was mean... no details about that fellow. ;)

How ever this NPCs were only strong because they came in a group and you applied a perfect battleground for them. And they worked better together then you :P

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Post by Azuros »

Damien wrote: If people would think more into their characters, they would not think like : "i will put up a fight because it is a fight, no matter if i can loose my life and everything". They might think like "the odds are really bad, we cannot win, so what the hell can we do else that makes us NOT loose everything ?" they will want to protect or at least not to endanger their friends and stuff, and well. That's an aspect which is quite overseen because there can be some action.
But then again, what is a game without some action, while the other option would be boring diplomacy ! So from player's view, the actions TB took are reasonable as well. Just not from the view of the characters.
;)
Excuse me, but how dare you decide what our characters should think? Every person (and every character) is different in the way they lived, and as a result, in the way they think. People have their own reasons for defending Trollsbane, not just because a fight is happening.

That's just insulting for you make such widely sweeping statements.

And Nitram, we -did- fight rather well against the soldiers in the beginning. We wiped out several waves of them, only to have more appear instantly. We even managed to cloud a certain knight.
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Post by orgis »

[quote="Damien]. They might think like "the odds are really bad, we cannot win, so what the hell can we do else that makes us NOT loose everything ?";)[/quote]

scotland small, hardly any army, england big, kick ass army... and who won the wars? :P
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Post by Damien »

@Azuros: Yeah, i might have a too "outdated" RP understanding for this game. So excuse my too high expectations :p
Keep in mind : playing a character who is stupid or fanatical enough to fight against unbeatable odds is RP i totally agree with. I also play a few weird characters.
But if the player then expects to win the battle because the GMs should do what he likes or else he will complain, that is something i do not agree with.
---
...the scots had tribes and smart tactical people, while the NPCs worked smarter than the players could. Of course because noone expects NPC monsters to work in a team ! That calls for totally new strategies on ingame battlefields. Imagine you cannot "lure" a single monster away because it calls its comrades !
Last edited by Damien on Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Taiah »

People will fight when their "home" is invaded by another land, this has happened throughout history. As far as the strength of the invader no one knows that and really can't assume since a lot came from Salk, Albarian and lands inbetween and didn't loose any skill on the voyage. Since so few mages on Gobaith it is apparent that Salk has different requirements being able to send so many and replace them constantly. Also no one heard of the catapaults, which hopefully someone managed to "steal" a few on the invaders' retreat. I am also very surprised no other town is helping Trolls Bane considering they may have a vested interest. If an invader takes over one town, what is to prevent them taking over more and more?


All of that would be in game logic, oocly this is a quest that will be continued and THAT is why people got ig to fight, either due to the background of their char, curiousity, or simply wanting to be in the quest.
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Post by Taliss Kazzxs »

Ugh
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Post by Azuros »

Damien wrote:@Azuros: Yeah, i might have a too "outdated" RP understanding for this game. So excuse my too high expectations :p
Expecting other people to think as you would is not having high expectations. It's narcissism.
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Post by Damien »

If i expect roleplayers - and illa has some decent roleplayers - to create and play a role, that's not called narcism.
N00b.
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orgis
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Post by orgis »

Damien wrote:...the scots had tribes and smart tactical people
Tribes!? :shock: scotland was another country, we wernt practicing the tribal system in the lowlands, and thats were the majority of scottish soilders came from :P
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Post by Damien »

Yeah, i guess the media prefers the heroic highlander image alot, so that's where the movies focus on.
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Post by Taiah »

If people would think more into their characters, they would not think like : "i will put up a fight because it is a fight, no matter if i can loose my life and everything".
People are willing to loose everything for their home, family and way of life.
They might think like "the odds are really bad, we cannot win, so what the hell can we do else that makes us NOT loose everything ?"

Why should they think the odds are bad?? Most of these "people" actually came from the mainland. They are established on Gobaith, know the land and resources much better then any invader from Salk, a prince with "trained" troups yes but not familiar with the guerilla warfare that can be done on Gobaith with independent thought process, most people don't need "orders" to know what to do like these "specialized" troups.

they will want to protect or at least not to endanger their friends and stuff, and well. That's an aspect which is quite overseen because there can be some action.

Actually the people ARE protecting their friends, family from invaders that they have no idea what the eventual plan is.

But then again, what is a game without some action, while the other option would be boring diplomacy ! So from player's view, the actions TB took are reasonable as well. Just not from the view of the characters.
Wink

Actually the invaders came one day, left a message stating "we are taking over" then the next time we see them are with troups. Trolls Bane wasn't given much option for diplomacy.
This is the roleplay of most players not using obscure logic or ooc information (like the invaders are too strong and will take over trolls bane no matter what you do).
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Post by Athian »

Taiah wrote:People will fight when their "home" is invaded by another land, this has happened throughout history. As far as the strength of the invader no one knows that and really can't assume since a lot came from Salk, Albarian and lands inbetween and didn't loose any skill on the voyage. Since so few mages on Gobaith it is apparent that Salk has different requirements being able to send so many and replace them constantly. Also no one heard of the catapaults, which hopefully someone managed to "steal" a few on the invaders' retreat. I am also very surprised no other town is helping Trolls Bane considering they may have a vested interest. If an invader takes over one town, what is to prevent them taking over more and more?


All of that would be in game logic, oocly this is a quest that will be continued and THAT is why people got ig to fight, either due to the background of their char, curiousity, or simply wanting to be in the quest.
Well in the RP sense the other townships don't want to lose lives and citizens for a place like Trollsbane which they feel is a rathole.

In the OOC sense, GM basically said "We will take what we want." So fighting now means little in the long run. IF the GM's are gonna take your town. thats all their is too it. Hopefully though they will allow us poor players to run our own little settlements and still have some sway on the isles running's. But decentralizing trollsbane a bit could always work out nicely for game poltic's assuming players have any future say.
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Post by Mesha »

That's kind of what bothers me about the situation.

People coming in, and assuming things for us. I want to say this once more. Feedback is good. Fine, the regiments are too overpowered (for the current situation). Tell us that! Just tell us specifically what you really find UNFUN, because we can deal with that. I love feedback which tells me what I should change in the future.

But people do not bring feedback, they bring assumptions. They are assuming we are taking a course, which we in no way have hinted towards. At least, as far as I know. I really wish some people would have more faith in people, that people would assume that we would not let TB go down without a fight. Because it will be a fight, as you may have noticed. And Damien, you are assuming the most of all, especially considering you are no longer a staff-member. Half of what you say does not coincide with our views, yet players somehow pick it up as it being our views. Which kind of harms the community, imho.
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Post by Salathe »

Mesha wrote:That's kind of what bothers me about the situation.

People coming in, and assuming things for us. I want to say this once more. Feedback is good. Fine, the regiments are too overpowered (for the current situation). Tell us that! Just tell us specifically what you really find UNFUN, because we can deal with that. I love feedback which tells me what I should change in the future.

But people do not bring feedback, they bring assumptions. They are assuming we are taking a course, which we in no way have hinted towards. At least, as far as I know. I really wish some people would have more faith in people, that people would assume that we would not let TB go down without a fight. Because it will be a fight, as you may have noticed. And Damien, you are assuming the most of all, especially considering you are no longer a staff-member. Half of what you say does not coincide with our views, yet players somehow pick it up as it being our views. Which kind of harms the community, imho.
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Post by Olaf Tingvatn »

well...you wanna know whats unfun? mages..both on the salkamarain side and "our" side, and as for the regiments being to strong, my orc was only brought down by magic. i expected to be clouded and didnt even bat en eyelash when that happend, and the fact that mages on "our" side bunched up and used F2 made it annoying. well..everyone bunched up on the inside and the outside. but, the mages annoyed the most, taking up valuable spaces behind the barricades where we should have had archers and warriors with twohanded weapons. im thinking of starting a thread on the tactics use for the next war. back on topic, if im not wrong the devs, as they are called, can see the skill of individual characters. Yes, the salkamarians are stronger and better trained, but isnt it possible to adjust the skill of the salkamarian warriors so that they fit those less skilled with weapons? like one end of town is for "not so skilled warriors" which you send the "not so skilled knights" and then more experienced warriors against more experienced knights. just to split up the forces and reduce the amount of F2 repetitious spam by mages. i know this sound stoopid, and probably 'is' but you know..and by stretching out the forces, removing the mages and skill matching we might actually be able to use those barricades we/you buildt all over the place. and im pretty sure every player with a mage character will have a fit reading this. if not removing then possibly just one mage with each regiment of salkamarians?
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Post by Athian »

Just to add something constructive

Nitram stated that Salk mages do 1/4th the max mages players can do with spells. However whats failed to be mentioned here is that players with no magic resistance (most warriors, all newbies) are not going to see any difference in damage between a PC mages fire blast and the NPC's. Most will just know they died in three hits.

Basically the huge crowd has no 'magical parry' skill to avoid taking maximum damage

its hard to balance mage NPC's but best idea I can think of is to give them generally low'ish' magic (somewhere around the strength of the white skeletions maybe a troll shaman max) some serious resistance (so PC mages don't blow them away too quickly) and maybe a bit of tactics skill to boot for survivability sake.
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Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Damien wrote:Overpowered ? Of course it's overpowered.
In fact, it's the only possible solution to use an overpowering army for an event where Troll's Bane's leadership has managed to put the town at war with the by far biggest empire on the continent, which at the same time is kinda Gobiath's closest neighbour.
To better imagine the size difference : Imagine a small 3rd-century-town at the border of the roman empire challenging rome for a war. You'll totally agree that the small town will be totally overpowered by the roman forces sent there - and exactly that's what happened to Trolll's Bane.
And the staff said it before as well.

So don't complain if your char was silly enough to be talked into defending just cause troll's bane's nobles choosed to fight a from the very beginning on as senseless declared fight. It's just what happens every day to people in all the world as well.

So, illa is quite a good real life simulation, eh ? ;)
Ah yes. Life would be so much easier when the small and weak would just bend over at the will of their bigger neighbours and take it in the ass willingly. Of course, it will be pointless to elaborate concepts such as "integrity", "independence", "identity" or "having a spine" after that sort of statement. Some people value their freedom (or at least, oppression of 'our own' kind) and independence and are ready to die to defend those. I mean, the Roman expansion came to end at some point too: At east, it encountered the Parthian empire. However, at North there was a bunch of violent Teutons, bad climate and backwards land which simply was not worth the hassle. But just to make it clear, the Trollsbane leadership pulled the town into war as much as you got yourself punched in the face and robbed for refusing to give your wallet to the robber. Sure, you can make such claim: But it requires special sort of twistedness to absolve the robber from any blame in the situation, and despite what you say or what you think about the goodness of the bane administration, the Salkamaerians are in fact glorified robbers. Unlike Illarion, RL doesn't operate in a bubble where all the variables are controlled by someone..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melian_dialogue
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_war

But now the real beef. You are basically talking about a situation that is like in...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix
There's a small village, in area which is not really important, but the people there are badass and armed to the teeth. They are not NORMAL people. They've defeated invasion after invasion, demons, dragons, demondragons, demondragonliches, Albarians, Siegfried & Roy along with countless undead attacks and assorted attacks of groups or individuals against the town. And you're expecting them to just say "Okay." when someone else asks nicely? Ooh.. they're Salkamaerians! Let's all change our pants because we all surely creamed them. No seriously.
Its very simple logic. There's nothing bout superheroes. Just compare these two :


Self-trained hero / bandit / mercenary person with own equipment grown up in a very remote area

V.S.

professionally trained, heavily armed veteran/elite soldier with elitary equipment (royalty regiment)



Ladies and gentlemen,
Who do you think will win ?
Lets bring some substance into this discussion.

Look at what Nitram said. The Salkamaerian Uberwarriors were infact weaker as individuals in comparison to average PC fighters. Undisputable fact, which means that all of the stuff you said (ie. your personal feelings) can be thrown out of the window regards to that.

Not only that, but you are completely forgetting that on Gobiath, practically every second fighter is a demon or dragonslayer, not to mention mages who kill monsters like that as breakfast. As individual fighters, the Trollsbane people are better, which is only reasonable simply because on the island everyone is on their own and must rely on their individual fighting skills, as opposed to being a member of an organized military unit.

When you think about professional soldiers, you are not only (or you are, but you should be) thinking about the ability and efficiency of the troops when operating as a group or an unit, rather than look at the individual combat skills of the troops. This is represented by the lack of discipline in comparison to the NPC's. The strengths of organized military lay precisely in teamworking and organization, and the multipliers and efficiencies which stem from those rather than from the assumption that the fighting skills themselves are better on the individual level (something which is not so true in present day, but in the context of Illarion and how the player characters work, it is).

Furthermore, do you understand what kind of idiot you have to be, in real life, to start a military campaign on a distant, potentially hostile land at the beginning of winter? Even the Roman legions with their famed supply systems relied to a degree foraging when it comes to supplying the troops on a march. I mean, ask Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin (vs. Finland) about campaigning offensively on foreign area during the winter.
Difference between here and lich wars :

Lich wars = fun event meant to be won by the players
This event = Worst case outcome after an epic diplomacy fail by the town's leadership. Meant to be lost by the players because the town leaders blew their chance of making a profit and "joining the light side".
It's called roleplaying. You know, considering your character's relationships, experiences, motives or goals and reflecting on those when making a decision, instead of choosing the "smart & easy & profitable" things all the time. Having presented with the situation there was NO realistic way that the town leadership would have yielded like that, without actually being influenced by the fact that we as players know that we're going down down down anyway. Look at the track record of 8 freaking RL years of resistance, staggering from one catastrophy to the other head held high, standing to the last man and woman. The characters are behaving (mainly) as they would in any situation. Some will betray the town, some (most?) will defend it. Different motivations. However, to assume that this is some "diplomatical fail" is to have a head about three feet between your buttocks. Okay, let's stop playing the roles and start throwing flowers in the path of our liberators. When the next demon attack, albarian invasion, PO-Brer batshit crazy character comes, we do the same. :)
3. Elections for a player leadership in Troll's Bane were originally created for the purpose to give the players some action, and a goal, and to give EVERY PLAYER the chance to compete for that, to make politics, become something. Lately, a group of players abused that possibility and declared themselves nobles and "grabbed" the whole "sponsored" town for themselves - so the whole thing turned into an unfair ingame advantage for one group of players (who even wanted to have the workshop locked and accessable only by citizens) - so much for a newbie town with start ressources for everyone and an ongoing fun fight/election stuff for leadership. Plan ruined.
Mesha wrote:To go on with that in mind: The prince is coming here without quarrel. We have sent emissaries into town, with the simple request to talk with the Troll's Bane nobles, who will remain nobles when the Prince comes, as long as they swear allegiance to him. The notice on the board announces this fact. This, in a sense, means that the Prince as a ruler will just be a sham. A ruler still, but one who listens to his peers before making decisions. The noble system, might I add, has been added to a game by the Cromwellness, and preserves player rule.
You really have no idea of what you are talking about, right? Fail.

So what you are saying is, that it's bad that a group of players attempted to take control of a mess by roleplaying, and by actually involving more than just single character in the town administration. Trying to have a consistent management of the town?

So, you are saying that in fact some players *gasp* took action and contol by *gasp* roleplaying (instead of marching around like good little soldiers, waiting for someone tell, instead of relying on characters who're around on the boards mainly, and only come around to comment when someone tries to do something in these gated communites that rest of the towns are. If that was indeed so horrible, all it would have taken to wrestle control away from the mean, grabbalicious players would have been.. other players. Considering you apparent panache for adjusting character's actions to ooc-perceptions, I'm sure you could have arranged something via the Illa-irc in no time. :)

I can tell you that I was already a couple of times ready to flee with Ed, but since no serious and concrete threat ever materialized after all, meh. Running bane sucks anyway, I can tell that. It makes characters and the PO's who play them quite jaded. :P
Damien in another thread.. wrote: On the island, there has been an active and recently even open moshran cultist temple. The "Moshran" concept though is an "evil" concept and intentionally it was thought for NPC use only, not for the inconsequent-wannabe-evil-nice-person-from-the-neighbourhood-villain player-guild type cultist we have now (who don't "even" have regular human sacrifices :p). On the continent, cultists are insanely evil and cause bloodshed and slaughter of innocents, and therefore every organized government - even albarians - have a reason to strike down every cultist gathering they can hear of, even if they have to travel half the world over that.
Same counts for the lizardfolk people.

Shortly said, from this happening it is in fact a very logical conclusion to have Salkamar send some legionnaires or even paladins or even a knight accompanied by those to the island to take things over and execute every cultist and every root of such a cult, or even burninate down the whole island with that action.
I will put this here, just to make a point about the reason why people tend to take Damien's writings so seriously. It's the constant making-shit-up & referring to the background story and justifying stuff through the background story instead of the stuff that goes on in the real game.

To my knowledge (I asked around too): No such "forces of light cleansing the city of its corruptness" stuff has infact been given at any point. Do you understand that the citizenry and nobility alike have been invited to swear loyalty to the prince? There has thus far been no IG evidence presented that the TB leadership would have had anything to do with the fact that the prince is going to come and take the town over because "it's his". Light side, yeah. It has been said that the Prince considers himself as the rightful ruler of the town, which seems to indicate that the TYPE or rulership is actually irrelevant to him, because it's NOT him. That's the issue not your personal issues about Moshran or whatever.
So much for that. Staff decisions are staff decisions, and even massive protest won't stop something that will be a benefit for the community and especially new players (and might keep them here instead of scaring them off). And believe me, new players will log off and never log in again if they have a profession but no tools available, and if they are regularily robbed by orcs who are patrolling the area just outside the town walls with the order to only not-harm registered town citizens. You simply can't do that to a newbie town.

If you consider all the above reasons, i think it's pretty easy to understand the staff and why that decision was finally made.
For the record:
I am not really opposed to GM-takeover of Trollsbane at this point. I mean, as I have discovered it'd be easier for a gamemaster to do interesting decisions because he can actually enforce those without suffering enormous shit-storms (which for a player will be rather stressful). He can also lend this enforcement power to others, creating a situation where there's maybe authority beyond having a mean gang of hired blades behind yor back. However, I do think that the case was handled rather poorly. The staff should have kept their GM mouths shut. Your should have said that this just 'serious' quest. The reason is that I believe that most of the bad-stupid RP has actually been coming from the non-participating people, as the players know that there's very little chance for TB winning so they behave in a way in which they probably would not have otherwise behaved. If you are playing a character who is not helping TB, chances are that I'm not meaning you. I am thinking about a very specific group of people who seemed to be taking the mick at the fight, because they know that there's no retribution or consequence coming from the bane side.

Just a friendly hint, PO Damien: Actually having a clue about the game (like, what has actually happened IG and on the boards) instead of making shit up regarding to the "background story" or patronizing & sweeping generalizations on "how" people should behave with their characters in such situation (which is strongly related to being familiar with IG matters) helps when you don't want to come across as a smug, ignorant and condescending ass. If you want to, well... success?

Seriously. If you don't have any substance to back up your assertions with, then consider not contributing to the discussions at all, please.
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Azuros
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Post by Azuros »

Olaf, you do realize that the mages don't do those emotes by choice, right? They're automated emotes that happen whenever we cast a spell. You're right, it -does- spam up everything during big events, and I don't like them anyway. Also, how is a mage, which needs to be protected from open attacks, taking up "valuable space" by casting from behind the barricade?
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Vern Kron
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Post by Vern Kron »

Alrighty then, to those who are refering to the 'background' and how 'invasions' are troublesome, and that there is crappy rp.

The game's rp, probably is not at the -highest- point that it has been in its history. But that might be because everyone sees Troll's Bane as the "lol, noobs." town, and thus ran away from it. So, if you are going to complain about the roleplay, then you first must actually do things IG to fix it. Running off to your little towns, castles, and various other places to isolate yourself from where the newbies are, is -exactly- why roleplay is going downhill. Because they have little to no examples of -good- roleplay. I know some veterans roll by Troll's Bane, make appearences, and rp with newbies. I'm not bashing those who actually come and visit, and rp. I'm bashing those who blatantly say that the rp sucks in Troll's Bane, and that is why they do not go there any more. By not going there, then there is no reason for you to complain. You aren't fixing the problem, before it becomes a more serious one.

As to the comments about, "The Moshran Followers".
1. The Moshran cult = Gone. Its an entirely IG thing, infact. Something the Salkamarians would actually know almost 0 about.
2. It is not longer about Moshran.
3. The last major quest in Illarion, balanced all of the Gods. Perhaps you heard something of it? How Moshran's armor came together, and then the Gods came to the highest point on Gobiath, and took parts of it to share Moshran's curse. No more evil Moshran! And the whole world was reportedly told of it.

As to the roleplay IG, and quality of fighters, and the quality of fight they should contain/allies:
1. Roleplay IG has stated many forces -are- on the side of Troll's Bane. They just happen to be gm's.
2. There is intimidation IG, factors that could have been used. Due to inability of assistance, and the fact that npc's don't roleplay, there was little point in bothering with these.
3. Changing the AI, its brilliant. However, do not yell at players for trying the tactics, that which they have been taught, and after coming from the mainland, how it would have been expected to be done, as being idiotic.
4. Gobiath has a culture. It even has sub-cultures within it. I have yet to see these cultures mentioned, written about, or otherwise. It, infact, has evolved -far- beyond the background.
5. I have, as of yet, to see a single scout of any sort IG.
6. What happens after the war? We have no reason to allow Salkamar in, aside from "We kill j00."


As to what I find un-fun:
I think its annoying that I have missed every single event that has happened so far. My fear: I will end up not having any sort of govermental interaction when I am IG. Judging from the recent actions and things... should Salkamar take over, I basically will be out of the fun part of the game for me. I find it unfair that certain players are being allowed to call others n00bs, and other things when as far as I can, they have not been IG for some time.

As for the people who are saying the GM's are the ultimate authority on it all: Well, they are correct. It is true. They are the glue of the game. However, it is still important that the players are heard. Their worries, and concerns. Basically: Stop stomping on players because they disagree. The way they disagree may be wrong. But that does not make the problems any less problems.
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Tanistian_Kanea
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Post by Tanistian_Kanea »

can someone summarize this crazy thread for me? (i really don't want to read all of this)
1d20
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Post by 1d20 »

Tanistian_Kanea wrote:can someone summarize this crazy thread for me? (i really don't want to read all of this)
Yeah, we're all your personal pocket summarizers.
Rekarafi
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Post by Rekarafi »

Tanistian_Kanea wrote:can someone summarize this crazy thread for me? (i really don't want to read all of this)
I'll summarize for you what MoonDust just said.

No
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