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Magic Idea #1

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:57 pm
by Tanistian_Kanea
Ok this stems from the MASSIVE amount of ideas on the other proposal board. I think we should really simplify this, take an idea, 1 at a time, and agree if we like it or not, as a majority. Then, one of the GM's simply makes a list of things agreed upon.

First idea I would like to put to vote is:

Make magic rooms a purchasable room from the builder. This should be the simplest of revisions. This would give mages outside the academy an honest chance to teach. These should require some pure essence of all 4 elements, as anything else you can agree on. Also It would be fairly expensive as you have to buy the entire room and it should be more expensive then a normal room. Final thing with this is only Magic Academies may buy it from the builder.

Thoughts?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:04 pm
by Rekarafi
Great idea.
These rooms will be led by someone, but it gives mages the opportunity to learn the arcane arts without joining one of the factions like the temple, m. academy ect...

So yeah, i am for it. But they should be really expensive.
They should be more often, but at least not overflow.
(3 teaching rooms in the tavern is too much ;-))

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:14 pm
by Pellandria
Normally noone should be allowed to have teaching rooms except the academy, there is an old contract with Lor Angur as far as I know , but the past has shown that the mainland just pops up, whenever they want something from us...anyway you should not gain a permission simply because you have the money, there should be several rituals, aswell as quests involving people to "steal" the knowledge from the academy, obviously if another one has a room you can steal the knowledge there aswell.

But except from that , what difference would your proposal make, if you just allow magic academies to buy the room, than you just have another castle or academy somewhere with a locked rune room, I doubt anyone will give away hundreds of silver aswell as the pure essences, just for the sake that other people might use the room one day.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:36 pm
by Tanistian_Kanea
Because Pellandria you once mentioned that you do not loose skill if you teach inside a magic room. There ARE other academies that try to teach magic, but do so unsuccessfully because of this fact. Therefore you give other academies (and that would be a requirement) the chance to get one of these rooms, and you may find more teachers teaching. Teachers that do not (for whatever reason) wish to be part of the magic Academy. More teachers = more students. This is simple math. And do not bash this idea because it will take away the Academy's monopoly on magic.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:42 pm
by Estralis Seborian
I am not in favour of any pure teacher-student system due to known reasons. So, scrapping all this skill-loss-teaching-room-secret-password-junk is preferred. See other topic for alternatives.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:54 pm
by Pellandria
I "bash" the idea because it makes no sense, you cannot just "summon" or "build" a room anywhere you want and we don't have a monopoly on magic anyway, the varshikarians where given a teaching room...for whatever reason they had.

I honestly wonder why people complain about this fact anyway, take Silvebrand for example, got a huge mine under it, more or less the quieckest way to mine stuff. Now take the magic academy as silver brand, we get a rune room, joining us does not requiere any fee's or something else, you just need to follow our rules, which do not involve something more than normal behaviour, sure there are other /harder ways to mine/get runes, but thats a bummer anyway, but you can't say that illarion is a game where everything is fair.

Furthermore I kinda need to laugh at all those people "Who could not teach because of not having keys" seriously now, I was never approached by those "teachers" and asked for a key or the password, we never even got a question asking if they could just use the room for a fee awithout joining the academy itself, but no its easier to complain about a password door, that was password secured before and about locks on doors, while every freaking guild has locked doors..so yes, either you make all the same or you think about real ways to complain...real ways are not "I'm to lazy to ask".

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:04 pm
by AlexRose
Just unlock the doors and remove the password ffs, it's complete bs. The reason this sytem is failing now after it was finally working is you guys stepping in deciding TOO MANY people were learning magic. The thing we wanted all along. Now we're back to a point where everyone wants to remove the magic system again. It's not the system, it's the players. You just agree to unlock your doors and take that lame password off and everything will get better.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:15 pm
by Pellandria
there ~was~ a password before, seriously Alex stop even posting, because all you utter is, as you like to call it, "bs", the keys are avaible easily, just one pm to me would be enough to get one, the password simply changed, if you are not smart enough to remember it writte it down somewhere and jsut look it up...ohhh waaaaiiit..you would need to ~teach~ to use it, my bad.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:33 pm
by Tanistian_Kanea
AlexRose wrote:The reason this sytem is failing now after it was finally working is you guys stepping in deciding TOO MANY people were learning magic. The thing we wanted all along. Now we're back to a point where everyone wants to remove the magic system again. It's not the system, it's the players. You just agree to unlock your doors and take that lame password off and everything will get better.
as much as this seems insane he has a point. It's the players, not the system.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:34 pm
by Athian
Pellandria wrote:the varshikarians where given a teaching room...for whatever reason they had.
Wrong. Just like the Academy, the Firebearers for whatever reasons were allowed to take over the building and make a magic door with a password on it that forbid entry. Varshikar has no teaching room. Only Dji

The majority of mages are tired of teaching rooms, and passwords and singular societies locking them away. while you Pell are part of the minority that want to assimilate everyone, that not what most of the other people want.

I suggest we go with the majority and as Estralis said drop all the teaching room dependency

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:41 pm
by Tanistian_Kanea
Athian wrote:
Pellandria wrote:the varshikarians where given a teaching room...for whatever reason they had.
Wrong. Just like the Academy, the Firebearers for whatever reasons were allowed to take over the building and make a magic door with a password on it that forbid entry. Varshikar has no teaching room. Only Dji

The majority of mages are tired of teaching rooms, and passwords and singular societies locking them away. while you Pell are part of the minority that want to assimilate everyone, that not what most of the other people want.

I suggest we go with the majority and as Estralis said drop all the teaching room dependency
This seems like an IG problem. You are saying that one guild locked up their room just like the other guild. So the two guilds are the only ones capable of teaching magic. Should not someone IG set to change these rules?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:59 pm
by Athian
I only doubt that anything regarding rooms and or taking over what someone else believes to be there property IG would stay an IG matter very long. Also the teaching rooms themselves are the issue. Most could care less about the things around them

RP devices likely would not work either. such as alternate route or secret passages into teaching rooms made by outsiders. Someone will make some excuse why they should not be able to be granted access. In the end the whole thing will go OOC, like any time two groups end up in a struggle for dominance. Id rather find alternative means then stir that hornets nest

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:04 pm
by AlexRose
It was an ig matter when the council took over but they had the gm support so they got the locks on the door and the window removed. They weren't previously in charge and they had no claim to ownership but they did it anyway despite other mages being against the idea.

And Pellandria, EVERYONE knew kculyd. Everyone with BHONA was teaching there, whether they were a teacher of the academy or not. *I* don't even know the new password, I keep it stored in a pm to myself and I have to shift+insert it ingame because you changed it to some random word I have no hope of remembering (and I assume neither does any other English person). Not to mention even if people did know it they can't get inside the academy.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:12 pm
by Mr. Cromwell
Players are too unreliable, too ignorant, too selfish and too unaware of (and indifferent to) the externalities which their character's actions cause to be trusted with the administration of an entire aspect of the game.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:23 pm
by Tanistian_Kanea
fine, then simply remove the need for a teaching room, could everyone agree on that then?

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:26 pm
by Llama
Tanistian_Kanea wrote:fine, then simply remove the need for a teaching room, could everyone agree on that then?
Or make teaching rooms only avaliable in the middle of an area surrounded by undead, zombies et cetera.

Or at least accessable to everyone.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:57 pm
by Pellandria
AlexRose wrote:It was an ig matter when the council took over but they had the gm support so they got the locks on the door and the window removed.
We paid for those removings aswell as the student dormrooms and the locks aswell as the tools and the field and the arena and the other stuff we changed inside the academy, if by gm support you mean "you bougth it like every other guild does" than yes..we had gm support.
AlexRose wrote: They weren't previously in charge and they had no claim to ownership but they did it anyway despite other mages being against the idea.
The Acadey was in a bad shape anyway, it was a group of run down mages who had no responsebility and where more a band of muggers and murderers than anything else, with the take over we tried to create unity among the mages and after all, noone ever challenged us for the leadership.
AlexRose wrote: And Pellandria, EVERYONE knew kculyd. Everyone with BHONA was teaching there, whether they were a teacher of the academy or not.
THIS is exactly the problem, everyone knew the password and everyone could use it without any regulations, this is the main problem, there were alot of rogue teachers who just got their runes out and not one bit rp, so we put the locks in place, mind you at this time the pasword was still the same, it was only changed later on. The problem more or less is, if some mage goes crazy the academy is blamed, thus the academy does take responsebility for their teachers, if you do not join us, you cannot teach, that easy, but as I said before, noone ever came up to us and asked if they might teach, even without being a teacher at the academy, so its not our problem that their chars are complet numbnuts who are generally to selfish to either get into an group or to ask for something.
AlexRose wrote: *I* don't even know the new password, I keep it stored in a pm to myself and I have to shift+insert it ingame because you changed it to some random word I have no hope of remembering (and I assume neither does any other English person). Not to mention even if people did know it they can't get inside the academy.
I still ask..where is the problem in securing our "homes", every guild has lockable doors, even your little pathetic two story and nothing in it caelum had a freaking lock on the door in the begining, there is no reason why our chars would not protect their homes and defend it against a possible attack, even if its just a door.

For the password part meh why does it even matter, you got it and you need to click a few times more, same with the key, you just need 6 clicks more than before to get into the academy, its not like you need to wait ten hours, walk trougth 6 dungeons and have to fight 3 dragons to get into the rune room.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:16 pm
by Alli Zelos
Slight problem is that, as far as I know, no one in the academy is even active. One of my characters applied 3 months ago, and hasn't gotten any kind of response. The only teacher she ended up finding didn't have a key, or a password to the teaching room. I get that the whole Academy Anarchy is a bit more IG... But the matter only 1 teaching room ever available? I agree with Hadrian... If there's only 1, make it available to everyone.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:21 pm
by AlexRose
And there's your problem Pella. You only allow people you see fit to teach magic. You consider some teachers "rogue" teachers, and that's why the magic system is failing. Unlock the doors and let them in and there won't be a problem anymore.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:24 pm
by nmaguire
even your little pathetic two story and nothing in it caelum had a freaking lock on the door in the begining
Yeah, because you BUILT the mages guild, paid for all the stone and construction and everything... :roll:
You put in hours and hours, getting the money together, paying hundreds of silvers to try and start a new settlement. Oh wait, you didn't!
All you did was lock the doors in the academy. It's great how you can't participate in a discussion without degenerating into petty insults.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:28 pm
by AlexRose
Also there was absolutely no need to buy student dorms etc.

It's almost as if you did that just to justify taking over it. Like anyone ever used the dorms in the academy.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:35 pm
by Estralis Seborian
Please limit your posts to proposals or opinions about posted proposals. No need to air dirty laundry.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:28 pm
by Pellandria
Alli: ther eis noone currently going trougth all the applications and sending off pms, I did that in the beginning for the first 6 or 7 sites, but its boring and...has absolutly no gain what so ever, so yeah you won't get a responds, unless you find a teacher.

@Alex:You still don't get it or, do you even read anything one writtes or are you stuck on repeating the same things again and again.
Want to teach, give us a shout and we will probaply give you the permission t teach, for a small fee maybe, but atleast it will not be "our" student who runs loose and kills people...

For the dorms and everything else we did and pay for, that was a try to breath live into the academy, to make it more than jsut a few stones surrounding the rune room and I think the dorms alone cost more than caelum, atleast at is was empty, I actually never took another look there, the tools and the field where probaply even moe expensiv.
But as it seems like you are talking to a wall here...anyway.

So fine how about a compromiss, we make a ~second~ entrance into the rune room, where you need to pay a small fee like..a silver or something..than go down there and teach the rune..and leave again, a silver coin is not too much and..it gets a bit of money out of the game, at the same time noone would be willing to give away a silver jsut so he can teach a newb a rune.

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:42 pm
by Kaila Galathil Travinus
Tanistian_Kanea wrote:fine, then simply remove the need for a teaching room, could everyone agree on that then?
I am good with this, or teaching rooms not controlled by guilds/players that you can get to without keys/locks/special words/having to pay coin etc. In other words, remove the restrictions.

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:39 pm
by AlexRose
Yeah I am talking to a wall, that means you're not listening.

Why would teachers want to PAY YOU to teach students? They're doing a free service, it's a chore enough as it is and you want to charge MONEY to do it? Oh great idea there. And there were already unused dorms. It breathed no life, I've not even SEEN the new dorms and I taught two sets of students since you took over. Oh and by the way we've spent above 30 gold for all the materials and the costs for building Caelum.

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:24 pm
by Tanistian_Kanea
Kaila Galathil Travinus wrote:
Tanistian_Kanea wrote:fine, then simply remove the need for a teaching room, could everyone agree on that then?
I am good with this, or teaching rooms not controlled by guilds/players that you can get to without keys/locks/special words/having to pay coin etc. In other words, remove the restrictions.
oh... here is a thought... that sparkly place between harbour and union, could not the "abundance of natural magic makes the transfer of magical knowledge easier"? Aka. Make that area (set space of like, 10x10 tiles) a "natural" teaching room? Last i heard this was a "mana well" (unconfirmed) it would be cool for it to have a use, and teaching seems like a good idea.

Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:37 pm
by Retlak
Tanistian_Kanea wrote:oh... here is a thought... that sparkly place between harbour and union, could not the "abundance of natural magic makes the transfer of magical knowledge easier"? Aka. Make that area (set space of like, 10x10 tiles) a "natural" teaching room? Last i heard this was a "mana well" (unconfirmed) it would be cool for it to have a use, and teaching seems like a good idea.
+
Velask wrote:My idea is for some sort of multiple part rune books.
=

Win.

-Matt

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:21 pm
by Ulthadar
[quote="Pellandria"]we make a ~second~ entrance into the rune room, where you need to pay a small fee like..a silver or something..than go down there and teach the rune..and leave again, a silver coin is not too much and..it gets a bit of money out of the game, at the same time noone would be willing to give away a silver jsut so he can teach a newb a rune.[/quote]

I sort of like this idea, I didn't want my mage to be involved directly with any huge organizations...I'm not sure if my idea would work any, because I don't know how you'd structure this in game, but how about you just keep the one current teaching room, and add a toll for students, like the silver thing, that way the guild, who is already teaching, could get some more money, I'm not sure how the teacher/student thing works for magic, but if it isn't like some giant contract thingy where you are bound to learn only from the person who teaches you, and I heard the teacher can only give 6 runes, two per student right? So if the teacher has like two students, and one of the other guys come in who paid the toll, they can teach them a rune or whatever, they aren't picking them as a student, just teaching them something so they can actually know and use magic and such, then post something on the entrance to the toll thing that the guild does not take any responsibility for the actions of mages who aren't officially members of the guild and/or students there...That way, everyone can learn magic, guild gets money, and if one random student dude turned out to be a crazy guy wanting to burn everything, you can avoid responsibility and retialation from the town...

I know there are som flaws in this idea (not counting my poor spelling) but it is just brainstorming...

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:02 pm
by Vern Kron
That sparkly place by the harbor is the remains of a quest from long long ago, and I honestly doubt that the reason why it sparkles would provide magical enhancement. I am against it being used as such, unless we are going to go back against what has already been rp'ed thoroughly and change it again, causing more inconsistencies in the game's background.

Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:18 pm
by Tanistian_Kanea
Vern Kron wrote:That sparkly place by the harbor is the remains of a quest from long long ago, and I honestly doubt that the reason why it sparkles would provide magical enhancement. I am against it being used as such, unless we are going to go back against what has already been rp'ed thoroughly and change it again, causing more inconsistencies in the game's background.
I suggested this because last i heard from anyone was that this was a mana well.

In which case could we not just have a mage "Discover" a "mana well" somewhere else in the world that is fairly easy to get to, if way out of the way. (Somewhere un dangerous, but unlikely to be stmbled across by someone going about there normal day) Otherwise new mages will die trying to get there.