Is Magic a broken system?

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

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Post by Pellandria » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:29 pm

He doesn't play since two days and I will not consider him newbie, because obviously he isn't, he is quite aware of what he writtes, but will you "suck it up" when somone calls out on your rp, in a way that is not fitting.

Yes I agree that my char is not the best person to get around with, being the paranoid bitch she ist, but to claim that he had no chance at all is simply wrong, the timing was incredibly bad, of course noone except faith can be blamed for that, and he would probably have stood there all day, if I or the other students wouldn't have had a meeting, so go ahead talk "bs" Matt or stand up and stop your useless "I make a few want-to-be-smart words here and a quoting the same useless stuff over and over there and everyone will believe in me !" method of posting.

Soo if you are up to it, sure go ahead and proove me wrong, if not go and crawl under your stone, if you post here than be ready to defend your points of argumentation, if you cannot take "the heat" of an argument, than you should not post, state your opinion but be ready to back it up, if he only tells a quarter of the real truth here, he should not wonder, if someone decides to draw a review of the situation and even ~explaining~ what has gone wrong there.

and for the sake of another post and because she is an older player..here we go about kailas posting.
Kaila Galathil Travinus wrote:Just to clear the air, since the days the current council was formed at the Academy and Kaila was asked to join yet wasn't allowed to discuss anything oocly with a "fun-loving, thoroughly non-political char",
I can only say what follows, atleast for the next sentence, is pure hearsay, but as far as I know you along with several other council members first discussed hours on msn, if you want to take over the academy, than as the chars started the whole thing ig with a meeting, where I was present aswell, you always started ooc talk and even as we put up things that ~our~ chars wanted to do with the academy and how they thougth might be the best course of developing a better academy, you still started to post ooc comments ig, than your char suddendly stood up, after people several times told you that there is no ooc talk anymore and rushed outside, so don't talk about "not being allowed".
Kaila Galathil Travinus wrote: I objected oocly to setting out some rules in "secret" without consulting all teaching mages. Basically I had a choice "follow your char's background or change it making her a political char" and elected the former.
You selected neither, because you still could have followed your chars background, simply work with the council to change it. Not to forgett that you, as you say here, constantly kept up your ooc, so you did in no bit follow your char background, because if she was loving "freedom", or whatever the reason was, so much she could have activly worked against the council, what she did was running away...well maybe fitting your char yes, but don't blame others for your decissions.
Kaila Galathil Travinus wrote: I have not had a good time playing a teaching mage and have only played her in the teaching capacity when needed and just occasionally. My "students" were the only good thing that I enjoyed. The academy was a BIG downside.
Now I'm really fed up, nothing changed for you ~anyway~ I don't know of any situation that your char was in any way involved in the changes, meaning that she activly worked for te academy, or in anyway was changed because of the new rules, meaning banning or fines or whatever. So all what I have to say to that is, you switch playing on and off and on and off again several times and now blame others for it "yeah I lost interrest because of >enter guild name x here<" is a pretty lame excuse.
Of course if there was something that resulted in your char getting hurt, getting rp destroyed or whatever..go ahead and name them, of course I can't know everything, but as I said I know of no incident.
Kaila Galathil Travinus wrote: [...]1. The forced guilds that hover over teaching mages make it not enjoyable.
Again, like so many times in the last few days, I ask for a reason for this, and honestly "I need to click a few times more to open a door" is not really the stuff that makes Illarion an annoying game, if you consider that actually making a smoked ham takes maybe around the same clicks.
So locks out of the way, now lets talk other rules...uhmmm yeah so we got they "students behave around teachers" rule and the "tresspassers are not allowed" rule... you see as a teacher none of those influence your chars in anyway, I don't know if your char is a part thief, because that would be the only explanation why you are against the "don't steal" policy or if your char is a kill crazy drow deep inside of herself, because that would be against the "Don't kill anyone except the summoned creatures" rule..so what is it Kaila, what is there that forces your char to do something you don't want?
Kaila Galathil Travinus wrote: 2. The need to PG in order to even teach a rune...at the same time PG is discouraged. :?
3. The msning, PMing, following around ig by "perspective students" and even talking to my other chars about wanting to be taught magic makes having a mage teaching char the pits. I am hoping some or all can be corrected.
As this has nothing to do with the academy itself and is a big annoyance for all of us I just can say that I hope there will be a solution for that somehow.

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Post by Athian » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:37 pm

Pellandria wrote:Lovely, when people have no idea what they talking about so..go ahead...here we go.
Pancho wrote: "I do not want to beg a guild on my knees so they grant me to teach in their teaching room." Said by three people (Athian, Kaila, AlexRose) who obviously play mages that could teach people, if it weren't for the fact that they have no teaching room.

That'd be 9 more student slots.
All of these three people play the game on and off again, leaving partly for months before they come back that means 9 disgrunteled students who blame the other teachers for not teaching them, not to forget that Kaila and Alex HAVE acces to the teaching room, so there is no excuse not for teaching, so yeah there goes your argument..useless.
Pancho wrote: "Let's make a freely accesible teaching room."

That'd help these 3 (or maybe more) people to play their mages again and teach people.
As said before the only one who would gain something from a free teaching room is maybe athian, if he would play constantly, the other ones have access and I know of no other Teacher, who has BHONA, but is not a member of any academy.
Pell what are you even talking about? I play more then you do, the last time i went away for months was probably well over a year ago. Stop speaking for people when you don't know anything. It those same kind of constant assumptions that always make any arguments you ever make look completely asinine. I've taught my student runes free-handed and actually lost the skill to make sure they advanced? Can you even say the same once? no? didn't think so. So don't go doubting my dedication chief

Even if both Alex and Kaila have access to the teaching room, they say they want it gone. Right now we have 3+ people (whom can teach, more if you count those wanting to learn) whom really don't like the teaching room lockdown situation and only you who wants to defend it. Its obvious no one AT ALL wants your old way of thinking. Sot he first thing you do is start slandering people. its rather sad honestly, so please do cut the nonsense.

Now we shall get back to troubleshooting the teaching system please.

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Post by Kaila Galathil Travinus » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:40 pm

Wow Pella, you have some serious issues, and agreeing with Athian tend to get a lot of things mixed.

Back to the mage system: I would like to get the teachers out of the mix except for RP purposes only. In other words have quests/runes becoming progressively harder and/OR a teacher to help possibly. This type of system could allow individual teaching or schools if the teaching rooms were negated, without needing a mage teacher. The guilds now for magic could still be in effect and allow those to join like other guilds in game i.e. because they want to not because they have to.

Another quest idea added to the library/dungeon

Find three of a kind of all the "rare" herbs in game. This would be exploration of Gobaith, and could be fun for more then one char to explore since some of these are better found in an area they may need to have a fighter along exploring also.

In order to keep the ig mage story alive, one of the runes could be to submit a paper "history of magic"...how that would be accomplished or judged I can think of a few ways but that could be discussed also.

(edited to add another quest idea)
Last edited by Kaila Galathil Travinus on Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by AlexRose » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:50 pm

Nice source there?

Killed people who came close to Caelum?

Uh? The only pk I recall at Caelum was when Deuce came in while I was afk and pked me.

My killcount for the past 4 years is under 10 and most of them were accidental (e.g. killed when testing how powerful a spell was).

And oh noes, how dare my character threaten those people who he was told were spying for Varshikar? Besides, that's not even the point; these are ig matters.

Also, teleporting to the roof is not bug abuse. There is a tile you can see, and as long as you see it, it's not bug abuse to teleport to it. Summoning creatures on a roof of a building and pushing them down is not bug abuse. It's not hard to shove something off the edge of a roof. You could say "IT'S A BAD USE OF MAGIC AND HE SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TEACH" or whatever you like but don't say it's bug abuse when that's obviously BS. Stop bringing up crap and slander where they deserve no place in an argument.

I don't have a key to the Academy and I'd rather not go through the hassle anyway. I have to teleport to the Academy, unlock the door, lock the door from the inside, find a depot to stick my key in, teach my lesson which could be interupted by someone then go through my pm box on the academy forums to find some stupid word that I have to paste ingame to open a door and walk through a cavern just so I can teach runes. I've taught several runes without the teaching room now (e.g. I gave Alli MES PEN the other day). It's just a pain. Oh and I have to interact with Pellandria if I want to get a key, there's another point against getting one.

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Post by Tanistian_Kanea » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:54 pm

Sorry, but I am to the point that Pellandria should have little to say on this thread because she is obviuosly biased to keep the magic system EXACTLY how it is because she currently has a MASSIVE stranglehold on magic. I can not remember her saying ONE helpful comment to FIX the problem. ALL she has done on 3 threads concerning this problem is shot down one idea after another for *smile* reasons. enough is enough, if you do not have anything HELPFUL to say then please just be quiet.

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Post by Retlak » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:00 pm

Pell, I couldn't understand half of your writing against me because of your ridiculously shitty english as a result of a rushed post, but from what I do understand, you claim I speak bullshit around these forums, I like to think I'm smart and try to get people to beleive in me?

I make posts for a reason Pellandria, not to try and be cool or win invisible points with people, but because there are certain things that I know from facts, experience and common sense, which most of the time I fail to see from someone who at your age, should display these things naturally.

Don't even reply with another pathetic, spur of the moment attempt at putting down someone who merely defended a new player who you dumped shit onto, things aren't in your favour around here, especially when you try to post against me.

-Matt
Last edited by Retlak on Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mr. Cromwell » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:02 pm

Relax.

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Post by AlexRose » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:02 pm

Go to it! When you wanna go to it!

Developer
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Post by Estralis Seborian » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:05 pm

Option A: Below this post, only helpful, mature and respectful contributions are written.

Option B: You don't want to find out.

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Post by AlexRose » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:08 pm

Magic is not a broken system completely irrepairably. We could trial the aforementioned natural teaching rooms and see if things get better, and it wouldn't take much effort.

Discuss.

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Post by Kaila Galathil Travinus » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:09 pm

AlexRose wrote:Magic is not a broken system completely irrepairably. We could trial the aforementioned natural teaching rooms and see if things get better, and it wouldn't take much effort.

Discuss.
I would be agreeable to the trial.

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Post by Aust » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:12 pm

You attack Matt's suposed lack of arguments, Pell, as if your arguments were anything but accusations and made up facts. Perhaps, if you actually applied some logic to your words for once, 90% of the community would not be following this topic, ready to trash you.

Edit: Alex' suggestion sounds nice.

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Post by Retlak » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:18 pm

I would actually like to see natural teaching rooms in the environment, it makes a nice bit of sense and allows for some open activity with players.

I mean, it's a push in a better direction at least surely? Little things can help a lot.

-Matt

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Post by Mr. Cromwell » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:20 pm

To Mister Alex Rose.

Good sir,

I am much obliged to agree with your most enlightened suggestion. However, I do must say that in my most humble opinion, this correction should be viewed to be only of temporary nature. Regrettably such fix offers little to no aid to some grave issues which we all must face, hence I forthwith propose that on the long term it is made our duty to abolish the player slavery and dependency, and ensure free magic for the free men of this fine young community. We must recognize that all characters are created Equal and have certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Magic without being buggered. As we are all a good jolly bunch of civilized gentlemen, I most certainly can remain assured that the fine, hard-working people of the community find this approach to be of the utmost satisfaction.

With well wishes and best of regards,

Abraham Washington Cromwell

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Post by Tanistian_Kanea » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:21 pm

Aust wrote:You attack Matt's suposed lack of arguments, Pell, as if your arguments were anything but accusations and made up facts. Perhaps, if you actually applied some logic to your words for once, 90% of the community would not be following this topic, ready to trash you.

Edit: Alex' suggestion sounds nice.
I'm for this. (As i was the one origionally suggesting it 8), sorry, had to stroke my ego a little there)

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Post by Athian » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:27 pm

A trial wouldn't be bad. But keep in mind that it we only go with natural teaching rooms (thus removing the monopolies of the academies) those with teaching runes are going to have to be more active.

As we all have characters with likes and dislikes, personalities and expectations, its fair to say that none of the teaching characters will just go pick up ever potential they see, as we seek to match our own roleplay as well.

So while its a step in the right direction I suggest we continue work on some quest NPC's to teach lower spells without need of teachers. I'm curious so i pose the question to all you magic people.

What runes/spells do you think are suitable for NPC's to teach? (please disregard the rune level nonsense that the academies made up)

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Post by AlexRose » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:30 pm

KEL RA/HEPT/ORL KAH/MES PEN/JUS TAUR/ANTH FHEN/URA LHOR TAH YEG SOLH >_>

For the rest of y'all, that would enable them to cast:
Fireballs
Iceballs
Poison clouds
Food Spell
Heal Spell
Teleportation
Summon animals
Open doors
Bringing small objects towards self
Cast illusion fireballs/iceballs/flames/iceflames
Remove flames/iceflames/illusions/poison clouds/portals
Cast portals (But I commend the person who can powergame their skill high enough to cast the portal spell when their hardest spells are illusions)

And I say that's the max that they need. Then if they find a teacher, upon getting QWAN they'll be able to cast all sorts of spells.
Last edited by AlexRose on Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Athian » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:34 pm

my list

RA KEL
HEPT KEL
CUN SAV
ORL KAH
MES PEN
ANTH KEL
RA TAH
HEPT TAH

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Post by Pancho » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:34 pm

So as an immidiate relief, have a "natural" teaching room established somewhere while at the same time start working on a not player-player dependant teaching system.

I agree to this.

Perhaps discussion about the "new" teaching system should commence in a different thread now, to keep things tidy?

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Post by Kaila Galathil Travinus » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:37 pm

MES PEN along with SIH and YEG, teleport (I picked these particularly because they can help "save" a weak mage char while learning other spells).

LHOR spells and ORL KAH spell because they are fun and simple, possibly CUN also.

(I am fine with above lists also however)
Last edited by Kaila Galathil Travinus on Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by AlexRose » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:38 pm

My list basically details the maximum that should really be given out so easily.

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Post by Athian » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:51 pm

ahhh I'd forgotten about Lhor

So we're pretty much agreed some things

Fireball
Iceball
small healing
Food spell
illusions
teleportation

removing flames??
Removing campfire??

These all seem fine with anyone whom is willing to give an opinion

I disagree with poison cloud, it's a bit more powerful then it's given credit for but only against Player characters and serves no use against NPC's. also portals can wait in my opinion, they seem like something that would be a bit more advanced then common magics, but short teleportation seems fine. Summoning animals...sure why not ^^

and maybe a tiny damage boost on the fireball and iceball might be nice. right now we don't really have any intermediate damage spells. either it takes 10 and above blasts to kill or 4 and below shots to kill, with nothing in between that works well on monsters

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Post by nowitzjt » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:56 pm

Haha, the more I read Cromwell's posts the more and more I agree with the guy, he has a good sense of humor and a good head on his shoulders.

When America was founded men like Thomas Jefferson and the writers of the constitution wanted its citizens to be able to pursue happiness with the freedom to do whatever they wish, America prospered like no other nation until the unconstitutional Federal Reserve System (a banker's monopoly currently destroying America due to greed and selfishness) took over in 1913 and has been deteriorating the American dollar through inflation since its existence.

I know economics is a foreign language to some, but if you do your research you'll see the scary truth. To summarize this I believe that men like Thomas Jefferson are a hell of a lot more intelligent than America's current government, and one of the things that set him apart from the majority of the current government is Mr. Jefferson and men like him truly had America's best interests in mind. And when they created America the motivating factor for wanting it to be a great nation is the fact that they escaped oppression from England and they had a dream in mind for America (they wanted to create a land where they could be happy); they lead with their hearts and the common good of the community in mind, not their own selfish agendas that would actually hurt the community.

So what does this story have to do with Illarion? I believe Illarion's magic monopoly is a miniature version of what is happening in America today.

There are some (not going to mention names) that enjoy the power trip the monopoly grants them and they don't realize/or don't care how much they're hurting the community by doing this which is counter-productive to Illarion being a good game and should be stopped. There are some that have their own agendas and don't have the game's best interests at heart. To every decision is a drive (logic/emotion/spirit for you philosophy majors) for that decision. The right drive would be something that would be good for the community as a whole. I believe that if someone is entrusted with a large amount of responsibility and power they should be qualified for that position and should have the game's best interests at heart, the fact that this is not the case currently is the major source of why the current system is broken.

That's why I suggested a trial system, it would take the sole responsibility of magic out of the teacher's hands. I think teachers should still have the ability to teach like always but it should be one alternative, not the only alternative with the "my way or the highway" crap that's going on right now. And that's why I think many things should be GM regulated, the GMs are the ones that are trying to make Illarion a better game and have the game's best interests at heart. And I think that if you give a few players all the power it is far too tempting for them to abuse it, and honestly I would've seen this coming a long time ago, it's like giving a heroine dealer all the heroine needles in front of all the heroine addicts (of course he's going to abuse it!).

The Magic Academy=The Federal Reserve System

End the FED

Josh (Rymar Tarken)

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Post by Kaila Galathil Travinus » Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:58 pm

I was talking of SIH YEG not PHERC, just to be able to heal.

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Post by AlexRose » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:12 pm

This is an online game. Stop being so serious. We had to wait too. After nearly 2 years I could still only cast illusions. I still accepted it and I think because of the wait the reward was much better. Currently magic is what seperates the patient players from those who always need power. Great things come to those who wait. And it does. If you persevere you WILL get magic eventually. And it's easier to get the less time you spend pging other skills. The key to success is just roleplaying. Sure you're completely vunerable, so just don't piss anyone off for the time being, then when the day comes when you get power you can start to throw your weight around. I really think it's a great system and I probably wouldn't be here still today if I'd never had that goal to achieve.

People seem to think the people who already have magic don't have a voice because it's alright for them, they already have magic, they don't have troubles anymore. We're the same people who were trying to get magic in the first place, the people you're arguing for and yet so many of us are still in love with the system that you guys think is failing, because we are the successes of this system and we have first hand experience that it works and the benefits are reaped in huge numbers. We shouldn't be discounted for our opinions because we're the current teachers, we have the most experience of all of the people in these discussions. Some of the people arguing about magic don't even understand how spells work and why the teaching system works in relation to how the runes work.

But still, I think there are the impatient people, maybe we can get their hopes up, give them a bit of magic so they stick to it and keep trying for a teacher until they get one, but we shouldn't do this with the highest level spells. If you REALLY want magic and you're not just like "omgz so kewl i want" and you're willing to work for it you WILL obtain it.

And Kaila, I think SIH is too powerful a rune to give out so quickly. I don't think SIH YEG is necessary. In fact, as discussed in the other thread, people still need to adjust to buying things from druids so druids actually have a job. Throwing around healing poison runes will put them out of the job they've not even grown into yet.

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Post by Kaila Galathil Travinus » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:25 pm

And Kaila, I think SIH is too powerful a rune to give out so quickly. I don't think SIH YEG is necessary. In fact, as discussed in the other thread, people still need to adjust to buying things from druids so druids actually have a job. Throwing around healing poison runes will put them out of the job they've not even grown into yet.
I don't think it would hurt the druids to have the one spell YEG given away ig as it stands now however SIH IS a powerful spell yet am not averse to it given away as one of the top/hard to do quests. In the end, the spells I think will be up to the dev's and we are just making suggestions. I also think LHOR should be one of the easier ones, and am not so sure we should give RA or HEPT but will leave that to others.

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Post by Tanistian_Kanea » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:56 pm

AlexRose wrote:This is an online game. Stop being so serious. We had to wait too. After nearly 2 years I could still only cast illusions. I still accepted it and I think because of the wait the reward was much better. Currently magic is what seperates the patient players from those who always need power. Great things come to those who wait. And it does. If you persevere you WILL get magic eventually. And it's easier to get the less time you spend pging other skills. The key to success is just roleplaying. Sure you're completely vunerable, so just don't piss anyone off for the time being, then when the day comes when you get power you can start to throw your weight around. I really think it's a great system and I probably wouldn't be here still today if I'd never had that goal to achieve.

People seem to think the people who already have magic don't have a voice because it's alright for them, they already have magic, they don't have troubles anymore. We're the same people who were trying to get magic in the first place, the people you're arguing for and yet so many of us are still in love with the system that you guys think is failing, because we are the successes of this system and we have first hand experience that it works and the benefits are reaped in huge numbers. We shouldn't be discounted for our opinions because we're the current teachers, we have the most experience of all of the people in these discussions. Some of the people arguing about magic don't even understand how spells work and why the teaching system works in relation to how the runes work.

But still, I think there are the impatient people, maybe we can get their hopes up, give them a bit of magic so they stick to it and keep trying for a teacher until they get one, but we shouldn't do this with the highest level spells. If you REALLY want magic and you're not just like "omgz so kewl i want" and you're willing to work for it you WILL obtain it.

And Kaila, I think SIH is too powerful a rune to give out so quickly. I don't think SIH YEG is necessary. In fact, as discussed in the other thread, people still need to adjust to buying things from druids so druids actually have a job. Throwing around healing poison runes will put them out of the job they've not even grown into yet.
ummm... yeah. hi. someone trying to get magic here and just to let you know I LIKE this current system. thanks for listening.

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Post by Athian » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:39 pm

actually i don't think SIH is overly powerful on it's own. YEG SIH is fine for healing purposes. MES PEN SIH however is a little high on the scale. But even if a potential mage has the runes to the the spell it will take some time for them to reach a level competent enough to cast that spell effectively. So allowing SIH to be learn able isn't really all too bad.

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Post by AlexRose » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:40 pm

Kaila, you want the ultra healing runes given out but not basic attack spells? We don't want new mages to be a bunch of healers, not every mage is like "Oh I want to learn magic to help people!"; in fact most of the ones who say that are liars. We should give them the basic attack spells but restrict uber healing.

And pervy is by far the easiest skill to get up. You'd get enough skill to cast MES PEN SIH without even trying. By giving away SIH you're giving away one of the 3 "power runes", and by that I mean QWAN SIH DUN.

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Post by Pellandria » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:57 pm

Athian wrote: Pell what are you even talking about? I play more then you do, the last time i went away for months was probably well over a year ago. Stop speaking for people when you don't know anything. It those same kind of constant assumptions that always make any arguments you ever make look completely asinine. I've taught my student runes free-handed and actually lost the skill to make sure they advanced? Can you even say the same once? no? didn't think so. So don't go doubting my dedication chief
Uhh I guess leaving for 3 months with 3 students, no matter how activ you are before or after, is not really something you can build trust on now can we, as I said before about the 3 persons, you seem to play the game on and off, if you suddendly leave again you got angry people, that was not pointed at you in particular, but in general, but I ~know~ you and others left with students hanging in midair, so don't come around with an "oh yeah I'm activ now d'uh", can change any day.
So here we go..facts.
Athian wrote: Even if both Alex and Kaila have access to the teaching room, they say they want it gone. Right now we have 3+ people (whom can teach, more if you count those wanting to learn) whom really don't like the teaching room lockdown situation and only you who wants to defend it. Its obvious no one AT ALL wants your old way of thinking. Sot he first thing you do is start slandering people. its rather sad honestly, so please do cut the nonsense.
If you start like this, I please remind you that I several times allready posted a dirty fix, hey I could even live with dropping a "fined" rune room and make it accesable for you and all the others, unless you stay out of the academy of course, if you do not response on my proposal its not really my fault now is it?

@Kaila: I tend to somehow feel insulted, first you post something against the academy and what makes you think is bad and yet after asking you several times for proove or for more evidence you change the topic, how can some mixed things get straigth, if you just leave it at that, please enligthen me with the things I obviously don't understand, preferable via pm or here on the board, but it might go even more off topic by now.

@Alex: Well I apologize for the actually accusng of killing, atleast for now, but I'm not bored enough to wade trougth pages of text in the forum and my personal char logs to find the actually incident I talked about, but be assured that it was not amira, but thanks for reminding me about that bit.

Anyway I consider bug using things that are not intended from the engine, but merely pose a possibility that is left out, if the devs wanted to make it possible to walk on the roofs, they might have opend options to do so, but I digress.

To the other part, its not our fault that you can't remember the word nor our fault for not using the save commands that is built within the client itself, for the door itself I allready said..its around 7 clicks more, having a mage and just 8 spells you can save, I'm sure you somhow manage to get those 7 clicks without dieing of carpal tunnel. We furthermore do not force you to teach a lesson within the academy halls..and you can aswell get a key from kadiya...just saying...

Ahh to the beloved Matt, just some facts:
Where you there?
No
Do you cared to ask for logs?
No
Do you cared for listening to the whole story?
I actually think we can say no here
Do you want to discuss this whole thing without spewing falme wars, because you obviously don't know what happend...?
No.


now to the main topic, even if the most would have stopped reading by now.

Alex list sound pretty good, but how about we add DUN to the list aswell, I know its a strong rune, but without Qwan it can't make much damage, while a mage with MES PEN DUN alone would allready be pretty "usefull" for adventuring partys, SIH as another high quality rune seems logical aswell, because they can't "hurt" anyone with it, on the other side this leaves less runes to actuall teachers.

So for another thing, that has not yet catched on, how about we make a second entrance into the academy room, obviously this way noone would need to pay for a natural room and noone needs to join the academy as such, that "backdoor" access is given to every "free" teacher we have by now, as it will spread and won't matter in a few months anyway, you will be able to use the academy grounds, without accesing the academy itself, leave the academy if you must or see the need to it, that kills two birds with one stone...first of all we don't need to bug lennier to build a natural room and mages who are not a member off the academy, who could do run crazy with said runes, will only hold responsible for their own actions, makes that everyone happy?

Of course that npc/quest/book version sounds nice in actually getting everything started, but I guess thats what everyone kinda agreed too.

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