Is Magic a broken system?

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Post by nowitzjt » Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:03 am

Is Magic a broken system?

A friend (who will remain anonymous) convinced me to start this game not too long ago, and I've been talking to him, and reading the forums and learning more and more things about this game. He's a fighter type, so I wanted to start a mage type so we could have some fun adventures and dungeon crawl a bit and meet new people all while Rping of course. So I made an elven mage with attributes towards him learning and being good at magic (having magic affinity is actually part of the elven description) and started the game in Noobia as many "noobs" or people new to the game do. The second I got out of Noobia I was in Trollsbane and met a variety of interesting people, and I responded saying "I'm an elf training to become a member of the Magic Academy". The response I got was very discouraging, "don't do it", "don't waste your time", "the people at the Magic Academy are incompetent and hardly ever play, and don't like to teach", so my next logical response to that was to ask all of the other venues to learning magic. Well, I was told there was a necromancer that wanted to turn your body into a puppet for learning magic (definitely a no go/not selling my soul for power), there was a band called the Bearers of Fire who I was told only like power and greed which is against the elven description which is supposed to be calm and collected (even though I was under the impression they're supposed to protect the land), the Grey Knights (a possibility), and the one elder in the elven capital which doesn't play much anymore. Why does it seem to me like the majority of holders of the monopoly of magic in the land are deemed arrogant, power hungry, and generally not very friendly by all the non mages I've met? I have a hypotheses, either one: the non-magic users are jealous and want magic, or two: power corrupts, and in any system that gives the few power, it always fails with a perfect example being communist Russia. And isn't it kind of ridiculous for the majority of magic users in the land to have the descriptions such as arrogant, and power hungry when the main users of magic are supposed to be elves which are in theory are calm, and responsible with their power, guardians of the land from an RP standpoint (which this game is supposed to be all about). It seems kind of hypocritical to me is all, my friend really likes this game and I may like this game too in time and I'de like to see it grow bigger but in order for that to happen I can see this huge problem becoming a main source of discouragement to all new players like myself, and many may leave with a bad taste in their mouth as a result of it. My logic is this, if it sucks that bad being a teacher, make more teachers and delegate the responsibility or change the system all together, it's pretty tough to RP an elf who has magic in his race description who has little to no hope of learning it (and yes I met a female elf who has been trying to get a teacher for a year/that's ridiculous and shouldn't happen). Just my thoughts, thought I'de share them and I know some of my opinions could potentially make me a target of teachers and they may not want to teach me as a result of my honesty but it's better that than to become a lying suck up for power (which I bet money a lot of students have to end up being to balance out the arrogance). And like all groups of people I'm sure there are a few good teachers, but from what I've been hearing it's a few. Btw my character's name is Rymar Tarken and if my honest opinions makes him unteachable fine, I'll make some other character that doesn't require a corrupt few in power to decide his fate. I'de like to see some honest mature replies to this post and I'll keep playing Rymar to see if I like this game, I want to ride it out and see if this game is as good as my friend says it is.

Josh

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Post by wolfsword » Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:16 am

I agree, even though I'm not going after the path of magic.. (Druidism ftw! :twisted: )

Hope you do become a mage, though. You don't seem to be the random-player-who-wants-to-learn-magic that the players usually talk about, imo.

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Post by Pancho » Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:14 am

Re: Is Magic a broken system?

nowitzjt wrote:A friend (who will remain anonymous) convinced me to start this game not too long ago, and I've been talking to him, and reading the forums and learning more and more things about this game.
He's a fighter type, so I wanted to start a mage type so we could have some fun adventures and dungeon crawl a bit and meet new people all while Rping of course.

So I made an elven mage with attributes towards him learning and being good at magic (having magic affinity is actually part of the elven description) and started the game in Noobia as many "noobs" or people new to the game do.
The second I got out of Noobia I was in Trollsbane and met a variety of interesting people, and I responded saying "I'm an elf training to become a member of the Magic Academy". The response I got was very discouraging, "don't do it", "don't waste your time", "the people at the Magic Academy are incompetent and hardly ever play, and don't like to teach", so my next logical response to that was to ask all of the other venues to learning magic.

Well, I was told there was a necromancer that wanted to turn your body into a puppet for learning magic (definitely a no go/not selling my soul for power), there was a band called the Bearers of Fire who I was told only like power and greed which is against the elven description which is supposed to be calm and collected (even though I was under the impression they're supposed to protect the land), the Grey Knights (a possibility), and the one elder in the elven capital which doesn't play much anymore.

Why does it seem to me like the majority of holders of the monopoly of magic in the land are deemed arrogant, power hungry, and generally not very friendly by all the non mages I've met?

I have a hypotheses, either one: the non-magic users are jealous and want magic, or two: power corrupts, and in any system that gives the few power, it always fails with a perfect example being communist Russia.

And isn't it kind of ridiculous for the majority of magic users in the land to have the descriptions such as arrogant, and power hungry when the main users of magic are supposed to be elves which are in theory are calm, and responsible with their power, guardians of the land from an RP standpoint (which this game is supposed to be all about).

It seems kind of hypocritical to me is all, my friend really likes this game and I may like this game too in time and I'de like to see it grow bigger but in order for that to happen I can see this huge problem becoming a main source of discouragement to all new players like myself, and many may leave with a bad taste in their mouth as a result of it.

My logic is this, if it sucks that bad being a teacher, make more teachers and delegate the responsibility or change the system all together, it's pretty tough to RP an elf who has magic in his race description who has little to no hope of learning it (and yes I met a female elf who has been trying to get a teacher for a year/that's ridiculous and shouldn't happen).

Just my thoughts, thought I'de share them and I know some of my opinions could potentially make me a target of teachers and they may not want to teach me as a result of my honesty but it's better that than to become a lying suck up for power (which I bet money a lot of students have to end up being to balance out the arrogance).

And like all groups of people I'm sure there are a few good teachers, but from what I've been hearing it's a few. Btw my character's name is Rymar Tarken and if my honest opinions makes him unteachable fine, I'll make some other character that doesn't require a corrupt few in power to decide his fate.

I'de like to see some honest mature replies to this post and I'll keep playing Rymar to see if I like this game, I want to ride it out and see if this game is as good as my friend says it is.

Josh
Too many good thoughts in this to not be read due to bad formatting. :)

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Post by Pellandria » Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:03 am

Is the teacher student system broken: I would say a big no to that, this system is the best to encourage rp and the technical side, it has its problem with "runes can just be given when attribut x is that high" which I find quite frankly bad, simply because my char can't teach all the runes anymore, while she could before.
Another thing is the relentlessly powergaming to get skills to teach the rune, so yes I'm for skill oriented training, but please lower the attributs again, its pretty annoying the way it is, either you make skill count for runes or attributs, not both.

Does the magic teaching system currently work: Sadly that aswell is a big no, it worked once, when the magic academy probaply had the best to offer, there where a few normal teacher, someone leaning towards necromantic, a warlock teacher, elves and so on, well sadly most of the teacher do not play anymore and making a teacher requieres many informations about the history of illarion, along with several different theorys what magic really is, not to forget the time you need to powergame senslessly for runes, so its not an easy task to just "add" new teacher.

I'm kind of sad that the system breaks, because some important people stop playing, but you can't force someone to play the game, to say that there is no teacher is wrong on the other side aswell, as far as I remember Pella hasn't have a student in several months, but I guess if you can't impress her she won't take you anyway.

So to wap it up, the teaching system is one of the best we had to teach runes..and believe me I relearned magic 3 times and form these 3 I like that one the best, but it depends on other player, who can than drop out of the game and leave certaint guilds or groups just empty, sure there are free running mages around, but they get a punishment for giving away runes without the teaching room, which is actually something I think is nice.

Why and how the bearers of fire got their room is still beyond me, but I guess you just have to ask and someone builds you a room...don't know, it was never explained to the public nor was there ever a quest that would involve the "stealing" of something from the magic academy to copy the runeroom, but I digress.

So yes there is no real solution for all this, maybe a hybrid of application system, that should be managed by a mage, not a non magestaff member, static quests and teacher learning system would be nice, but that would need changes again and we all know that the scripter have no time for this.

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Post by nowitzjt » Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:34 am

I'm kind of sad that the system breaks, because some important people stop playing, but you can't force someone to play the game, to say that there is no teacher is wrong on the other side aswell, as far as I remember Pella hasn't have a student in several months, but I guess if you can't impress her she won't take you anyway.

If I can't impress her? (I wonder what the criteria for that is..../sounds like a suck up contest to me) That sounds like an arrogant statement to me which pretty much proves the point of all the players that were telling me not to go with the magic path, and why the system seems flawed and broken (with my whole point of how power corrupts), I stand by what I said that I'm sure there are a few good teachers in the realm that are unbiased and fair, but they are probably far and few between.

Josh

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Post by Pellandria » Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:49 am

What impressing is, easy, stand out of the crowd, show that you can do it and that you are willing to do it, I don't know what your opinion on "fair" is, but if it is "Everyone should do what I want,because I ask them too" than I should probaply show you the harsh reality, and that is that you can not ~show~ me someone who wastes time and money for months if not years on someone, who just might disappear, after he took all the help, after all we are supposed to play a role here and roles mean that you are shaped from your past experience, true my char does not like the endless amounts of "I will work hard, will be loyal and make the sun shine every day bla bla yadda yadda" stuff, but she says so aswell, so deal with it, in reallife noones going to give you something just because you ask.
Lets see...you need to buy something in a shop because you are hungry, well better got some money, want to learn magic, well better get friendly, thats how it works and anything else would make no sense at all.

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Post by nowitzjt » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:03 am

Well i agree with you on one thing, there's no such thing as a free lunch, I'm going to college right now and it's not cheap; however I earn my As through hard work, not getting "friendly" with the teacher. Every book I've read on magic, the Dragon Lance series (excellent read), the Death Gate series (also a good read) does not show the coming up wizard characters begging their masters "oh pretty please, please teach me a spell Master, please....."

No, Raistlin in the Dragon Lance series after his training in the wizard tower learned many things on his own, he didn't need a teacher spoon feeding him every step of the way.

Please teach me Lightning Bolt Fistandtalius, I wanna know the Charm Spell, I'll buy you anything.....bleh pathetic.

I understand you probably had some bad students in the past that helped you develop this jaded attitude, and you most likely are burned out a bit, which is exactly why I think the system is flawed and needs to be changed (it's probably very taxing on the teachers). It's perfectly natural to be burnt out after a lot of bs and wasted students but expecting a few people in the realm to be responsible for all magic in the realm requiring years just to develop someone into a decent mage or future teacher is probably one of the main sources of the problem.

What's going to happen if all the teachers one day say "screw this, I'm done" Magic will dissapear from Gobaith forever and ever....

Josh

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Post by Djironnyma » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:25 am

Blablabla?
blablabla!


It is senseless to discuss here. It is well know that the magic system is not working. There will be change in the way of teach magic and in the power of magic as soon as some dev have time to do so. You call for a change which is already decided - just wait until a dev found time and motivation to do so.....

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Post by Pellandria » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:40 am

Oh please are now coming with fantasy books, well how about those nonheros in the books hmm? How about the poor saps that explode, cut, electocute and kill themself, because they aren't up to the challenge, don't think as you are the hero of the game, that doesn't work and if you start with "Well I'm the best so give me stuff" you won't come very far, just take real life again, if you behave like a prodegie, why do you have to work for your A's, if it would come naturally to you, than you wouldn't have to work and if you know that work will pay off, get into the illarion history, get to know all whats to know about illarion magic, but don't complain because you think everyones a hero.

Thats the main problem with fantasy books nowadays, they just show off the hero, mostly undestructable, who can do whatever he wants aslong as he has the luck or his smile on his side, and that creates a false image, we might have heros in Illarion true, but we need to remember that there are alot of other, normal people around aswell, maybe you are some kind of mage prodegie, but you can or will not get runes with just complaining and if you got a better idea go ahead, but if you start with sacrificing stones or quests that can be answeed with words, than we are making a big step back, I remember the time with the sacrifing stones, you could get all the runes you wanted in just one day.

Something else to add, we are a mostly middle aged game, do you know what happend in the middle ages, if you wan to train your son or daugther to become something, well you eithe rknew the craft itself or you ~asked~ someone who ~knows~ we don't had these "free for all" schools like nowadays and if you get a master and into the academy or the other mage guilds, than you ~can~ learn all about magic, you jsut need the ruunes for the technical effect anyway, if you learn on your own enough, than you will be able to learn the runes faster, simply because your teacher wastes less time on teaching you the basics.

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Post by nowitzjt » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:05 am

Lol, thank you for the reply Dj, I'm glad the devs discovered that the current system isn't working and are fixing it, that's the problem with a monopoly, the person or small group at the top doesn't want to give up the power seat and it crushes all hope of starting your own business in that field.

Just look at Rockefeller, government intervention is the only thing that broke that up, and what did Rockefeller end up doing? He got together with the richest men in the world like JP Morgan to create the Federal Reserve System which will probably end up destroying America in the long run with the devaluation of the dollar. That's the problem with power hungry monopolists, they will consume and consume until the majority of the people are pauperized and the monopolists are the few and only kings of that land.

I'm sure I could study magic theory all day long and know everything there is to know about it, but the truth is, that's not the determinant of who gets a teacher and who doesn't. The truth of the matter is certain teachers are full of themselves and in Pella's example, they want to play hero and let most other people play the peasant and it sounds like most "king's" would prefer to keep it that way. That's kind of like playing cowboys and indians and you end up always being the indian, damn got shot again.....Time to roll a thief till the system gets fixed =)

Josh

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Post by martin » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:08 am

Pellandria wrote:Is the teacher student system broken: I would say a big no to that (...)

Does the magic teaching system currently work: Sadly that aswell is a big no, it worked once, when the magic academy probaply had the best to offer, there where a few normal teacher, someone leaning towards necromantic, a warlock teacher, elves and so on, well sadly most of the teacher do not play anymore (...)
You contradict yourself.
It is broken if there are no teachers for that anymore.

A big "no" to your analysis of the situation.

Martin

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Post by Pellandria » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:13 am

Seriously why do I even bother answering you, I tried to give you hints and tips how to get along and maybe how to find a teacher, of course always with the point that the system does not work as it is and you give me this sh** as an answer, if you read that much,o ne would think you could actually extract what is meant in a text instead of assuming, but this time atleast you just made an ass out of you and I suddendly do not even care anymore if you get a teacher or not, way to go to alienate teacher, first with discriminating a system they did ~not~ create and where forced into and than with someone who actually tries to get you an idea how it is done, get your head fixed..or whatever needs to be fixed in your case.


@Martin: Wrong. you should read more carefully, the system as such is not broken, the basics "teacher teaches student" is great actually, it jsut does ~not~ work in the current situation because of the lack of teacher, there is a difference of what should be it and what it is, the theory of teacher-student is great, the actuall work that is done is sadly bad, same with communisem I guess, works great on paper, but gets destroyed by greed and other "feelings" that mankind has to offer.

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Post by nowitzjt » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:27 am

I believe there's regulated monopolies in America, which last time I checked isn't a Communist country.

One of the problems is you're not regulated

So basically you can do whatever you want without any fears of consequence

Pella, the funny thing is people warned me about you before I even decided to post this thread, they told me you were unfriendly, arrogant, elitist, rude

They were right

Josh

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Post by Mr. Cromwell » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:36 am

Image

Above is a graphical description of the state and quality of the magic-teaching system.

In written form it would look like:
No, it's a gigantic failure of epic proportions, especially when thinking about new players like you. To say that it doesn't work would be extremely polite way of expressing oneself.

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Post by Kaila Galathil Travinus » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:43 am

Djironnyma wrote:Blablabla?
blablabla!


It is senseless to discuss here. It is well know that the magic system is not working. There will be change in the way of teach magic and in the power of magic as soon as some dev have time to do so. You call for a change which is already decided - just wait until a dev found time and motivation to do so.....
That's good to hear, thank you!

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Post by nowitzjt » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:43 am

Hahahahaha, good reply Cromwell, always good to see people with a sense of humor =), even though you were half joking

Josh

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Post by Pellandria » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:46 am

Allright, now that is seriously starting to go on my nervs, I told you ~friendly~ in the first post what my opinion is, you then started to assume that I mean an asskissing contest to get my students, which is quite frankly wrong, simply because my char most likely decide from her guts feelings and neither from "ohh how much ass did that guy kiss today", but the fun thing is, every teacher does decide on their own, funny enough I seem to be the only one who is up to admitt that we go for our own taste rather than for "ohh he applied like a year ago, I know nothing about him but teach him anyway" way of life.

If you can't deal with the fact that even a broken system can have good parts, than I wonder why you are even living where you are, but I digress, I don't want to start a debate if you can stand the critic against your own land, while you are critizising others.

So to sum it up, before there is more misunderstanding:

Do teachers choose their students fair ?
Probaply not, alot of personal feelings play a role, maybe on most important is, if the chars rp style fits yours, its a pain in the ass to play atleast half a year with someone, who's writting style or way of rp you can't stand, doesn't mean one can't improve and maybe get a teacher later.

Does the sytem ~currently~ work?
No, it does not, simply because we got tooless teachers.

Is there a better system ?
Sure there will, there is always a better system for different kind of people, infact its impossible to create the perfect system without having somone to abuse it one or another way.

Did you or anyone in the magic system actually have any influence on the making and or balacing of current system?
No, I know noone who actually had an influence except staff members and even there I have no idea who made the coding, but the wildest guess would be that nitram made the whole concept almost alone, atleast the newer "improved" version.

Why the heck do you even care anymore?
Beats me, just hating the same sensless rabble about people, who run out of arguments and switch to the "I hate you because you do not agree with me so you are >instert random word about myself in here<" mode... it gets old.

Are you done talking with yourself?
Yes..yes I'm done now.

Call me arrogant for choosing people I like over people I do not know, when it comes to teaching magic, but Its not liek i actually would teach currently, because I always stumble upon the legions of "I want to learn magic plz gimme magic" chars. Actually one time silas took a great new char, from an older player, right unde rmy nose, I liked her roleplay and would have taken her s a student aswell, so yes..my advice is..till the system is rewritten,...well why would I give out the same advice over and over if you do not care anyway...meh.

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Post by nowitzjt » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:58 am

Pella, I believe you're the one who said I should get my head examined which seems like a low blow, or how you stated in your last post "switching to the I hate you argument".

I understand, you're proud, you think you're always right, you don't really give much thought to other people's arguments (all signs of arrogance/and all adding to the evidence supporting the player's opinions of you I've heard in only one day)

I'm tired, I have to work tomorrow and I don't have time to go back and forth with you all day, so this will be the last time I post for a little bit =)

I understand guys with my personality type and dominatrix personality types like you just don't really get along but I'm ok with that.

My main point was the flaws of a monopoly, if you're not sure about all the various flaws of that in history please stop studying "magic theory" and look up everything about monopolies and their flaws in History and Economics books, trust me, they always turn out bad....

No more arguing, Josh is tired and needs to go sleepy

Josh

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Post by martin » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:07 pm

Pellandria wrote:@Martin: Wrong. you should read more carefully, the system as such is not broken, the basics "teacher teaches student" is great actually, it jsut does ~not~ work in the current situation because of the lack of teacher, there is a difference of what should be it and what it is, the theory of teacher-student is great, the actuall work that is done is sadly bad
A system based on wrong assumptions is basically crap.
If we were on the Mars, food would taste better.
Yay!

Martin

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Post by Rekarafi » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:11 pm

I dont know why, but if i read through this topic, i get angry somehow.

How frustrating this might be to students, there is no teacher NPC who is telling something about
"Hello, you want magic? Do a task: Bring me a bucket and I will teach you!"

Magic training takes a goddamn lot of time and effort, NOT only by the students, but especially for the mage teachers.
They want good RP also, so they choose students whose RP-style they like and who could probably make good student RP.

As a mage yourself you also wouldnt teach your skills to a guy who comes along "Hey, teach me!" and crying aroung "Waaaah, noone teaches me the teaching system sucks"
Maybe its not the system sucking...think about that.

It has a reason why a teacher chooses you, or another one, or no one. Try to reach the reason that he takes you. INGAME.

Its like love. You choose wisely with whom you spend your lifetime with. The chemistry has to fit.
So just wait until you find a teacher who likes your style, or just change yourself, or give the hell up.
Create a char that is different then your normal chars and maybe you are more lucky, or play a fighter.

But stop complaining such a crap.



...I'm still angry somehow...

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Post by nowitzjt » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:24 pm

Damn it, I'm having trouble sleeping and I just got up and read that comment, funny how the only people on the Pro-Teachers side are the only ones continually bringing up that argument, figures, they have something to gain.

So let me get this right, it's not about knowing magic theory, it's about love and chemistry between teacher and student.

Sounds like Rymar Tarken should be in the world seeking a close bond with someone, kind of like desperately getting a date? Seems kind of ridiculous to me, and more towards the monopolists on top expecting the potential students to whore themselves out to get some Magic skillz lol. Btw just to let you know, if someone is being unrealistically nice to you when you're giving them something they want, they're probably not being completely honest with you.

Josh

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Post by Dangron » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:28 pm

Mage system right now is OOC pile of bulls****. Why OOC? Well, a mage teacher picks their students OOCly; If I was a teacher, I'd probably teach any good RPer, if he goes inactive, I'd RP he/she blew themselves up or something. And seeing the lack of mages right now... Bad, really bad.

*grabs his head with both his hands, preparing to be flamed by Pella*

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Post by Retlak » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:52 pm

We tend to have two groups in Illarions; Roleplayers and Powergamers.

Roleplayers are people who just type a lot, go innactive a lot and don't like thinking about skills (though they realise they need to sometimes).
Powergamers are people who still roleplay but like to skill their chars up and make use of all the systems that developers have worked into the game.

All the magic teachers are roleplayers = No teachers around to teach.

-Matt

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Post by Aust » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:03 pm

Its impossible to get magic, because The Temple lacks BHONA and a teaching room, and Pellandria keeps making it impossible to be a teacher in the academy. Power corrupts in real life too, as you point out, so most mages are arrogant. I don't see a problem there. Right now you joined at he worst possible time, though. Be patient, and you will get a teacher. There have been COUNTLESS students of magic the last few years, the only problem is that most quit after a few months, before they get BHONA. Most of those who have BHONA teach.

The information your char received was bullshit. I suggest you write a personal letter to each teacher. Hopefully The Temple will have BHONA soon, but I doubt your char will fit in from how you described him.


Dangron: There isnt a lack of mages. There is a lack of mages with BHONA.

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Post by nowitzjt » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:19 pm

Hence why I said if you think being a teacher sucks, delegate your responsibilities or change the system entirely. And yes power does corrupt, but not every mage is supposed to be a self-indulged prick.

Look at Gandolf the Grey, if he was an arrogant piece of crap, I'm sure he would've let Frodo burn long before he reached his destination.

Josh

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Post by Rekarafi » Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:38 pm

You are not seriously comparing Lord of the Rings with Illarion, are you?

Uhm...we have lizards! :D

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Post by AdamsJr » Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:48 pm

.

Is it at all possible for those of us just coming into the magical cast wether it be as a mage, druid, battlemage, or paladin to be able to learn as the earliest of Illarioners did thru trial and error I mean a previous well instructed and versed teacher would be great for the aspects of rp and for developing the interpersonal relationships the makers desire for us to have. But is the magic system so "broken"that there is no hope for someone coming into their own within the confines of the system as a well adept and well versed magic wielder.
Last edited by AdamsJr on Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Rhianna Morgan » Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:48 pm

And we lack oliphants and giant eagles... *sigh*

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Post by Azuros » Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:18 pm

There always has been plenty of struggle to become a mage in Illarion. The powers that be really don't want every char to be a mage so they implemented a few roadblocks to attaining magic.

I wouldn't say the problem is that the magic teachers are corrupt, not at all. It's simply that it's very frustrating to teach. The teachers firstly need high enough attributes and skills to teach the runes. Some like Pellandria lack attributes for some runes. Others do not enjoy leveling up for large periods of time so they lack skill to teach the runes.

Add that to the fact that if a player of a teacher stops playing, there is one less teacher around that is unlikely to be replaced any time soon and you've got a big roadblock to learning magic.

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Post by Tanistian_Kanea » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:10 pm

little bit off question here. but last i heard teaching a rune lowers the teachers skill level. now i had heard this was to slow the teaching of runes so that a apprentice could not be given all the runes in about 30 seconds. if these two facts are correct why not change that system so that is a random amount of time.

1) same system as number of actions to get swirly, just change "actions" to "minutes", "swirly" to "teachable" and apply correct attributes.

2.a)finally the students level should affect how long it takes to teach again as well as the teachers. let me explain.

2.b)A higher level student would take more from the teacher, meaning it takes longer before the teacher is able to teach again. A higher level teacher, doesn't need to wait as long as a low level teacher does.

So basically, magic users would have two "rest" statuses. A magic one, and a normal one. It would be easy to implement, just clone the current system, changing key points listed above. i would implement part one first, as this would seem ot be very quick easy and painless, while part 2 seems more complicated requiring a lot more new script.


Doing it this way seems better to me for a few reasons.

First it doesn't make sense that a magician should loose ability for teaching (though i understand the reasoning on the technical level)

Second: The current system discourages mages able to teach if they want to improve themselves. "Teach-go down, train-go up in order to teach-go down again" it's not a very user friendly.

My thoughts. Discuss.

Edit: Also, after re-reading a few posts i do not like how you attributes affect what you can teach. There are too few teachers to limit what runes can be taught even further.

This is even worse when you have someone who creates an appropriate, non-min-maxed characters at the beginning, only to find out a year down the road he can't do what he wants to be able to do because he followed the highly encouraged non-min-max character design. This seems like the player is getting stabbed in the back by the developers to me. Illarion has always been that ability only affects how well you do things, it has never limited (that i can remember) what you can do.

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