Young mage needs teacher!

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Post by Morbius » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:45 am

Young mage needs teacher!

Hi anyone and everyone, i have an elf mage who needs a master to kick off his corrier in the world of magic, learn some spells and genrally
teach him the ways of magic. If you are a mage who wants an aprentice then please consider my mage Arthonnen, thank you.

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Post by Saril » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:52 am

Go to ...

Magic Akademie

or

a free Mage from Vanima, The Bearers of the Fire, Grey Rose, Tempel and more.

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Post by Llama » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:26 pm

In Illarion we try to keep Out of Character and In Character seperate.

So you're not going to find a teacher by posting here, but you'd have a minor chance if you write an in-character notice in the RPG board, or if you ask around ingame.

However the best way is to go talk to one of the guilds, you might get lucky there.

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Post by Aust » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:26 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:In Illarion we try to keep Out of Character and In Character seperate.

So you're not going to find a teacher by posting here, but you'd have a minor chance if you write an in-character notice in the RPG board, or if you ask around ingame.

However the best way is to go talk to one of the guilds, you might get lucky there.
HAH, we all know finding a mage teacher has EVERYTHING to do with ooc connections.

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Post by Dead_Rabbits » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:33 pm

Aust wrote:
Hadrian_Abela wrote:In Illarion we try to keep Out of Character and In Character seperate.

So you're not going to find a teacher by posting here, but you'd have a minor chance if you write an in-character notice in the RPG board, or if you ask around ingame.

However the best way is to go talk to one of the guilds, you might get lucky there.
HAH, we all know finding a mage teacher has EVERYTHING to do with ooc connections.
Thats what I HATE about the whole magic system and whatever. I actually prefer the anonymity of not knowing the players behind the char, it seems to make the character one of himself. As opposed to standing in a certain area surrounded by enemies, a quick msn will point your buddies in the right direction to save the day - this sort of thing.

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Post by Djironnyma » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:34 pm

Sorry, but that is not true, of our seven current students i had know only 2 Players before they become students...

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Post by Shenandrea » Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:49 pm

There's always favourism of some who play anykind of teacher. I agree that Magic is something that needs its time, especially since you need a certain percent of skill to be able to teach and be taught. ( if i'm not mistaken - correct me if i'm wrong in that case )

But it's not true that all of the Mage-teacher know their Students a long time OOC'ly and are willing to teach them Magic as soon as one of them asks. There are a very few who do that, but it's unfair to those who aren't doing that to lump them together with the others.
Magic teachers have a set number of students which they are allowed to have, at least as far as I know. So if teaching one student needs lets say 6 RL Month, and there are like what, 20 on the list for that very teacher to teach, so the last student on that list has to wait a couple of years before he could even be considered as a student.
Sure there are other mages, thus they don't have the teaching Rune.

I'm not sure but there are like 5-7 (of what i can say) active teachers running around on gobaith, and you are wondering why it takes time to become one?

Just my 2 cents

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Post by Aust » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:05 pm

I didn’t mean to start a discussion here, and I never claimed everyone practices favoritism consciously. However, it is a well known fact that taller people earn more, prettier people get lower punishments in courts and better grades at school. Magic teachers in Illarion favor chars with POs, whom the PO of the teacher knows OOCly (good luck trying to figure that one out, lol...). Consciously, or subconciously, and to a smaller or larger degree. This is not criticism, just don’t give me the "I never mix ooc and ic" crap. I've played Illarion long enough to know that everyone does. Sure, try to avoid it, but acknowledge the problem exists.

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Post by Pellandria » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:46 pm

Well being a teacher myself I would say that from all my students I just knew 1 before hand and even at this time I didn't knew that she was the one behind the char all the others I got to know later one or never was really in an ooc contact at all.

So I guess saying that everything goes for ooc is honestly crap, but on the other hand its the safest route, playing with unknown chars and Po's ~always~ has the high risk of wasting playtime.
Just an example, if you manage to play around 2 or 3 hours a day and you got 3 students than you can more or less bet your behind on it that you will atleast deal half if not almost your whole week just with being a teacher, talking with students, theoretical stuff, runes, pratice all that and in the end of the week you wonder what you just did all day.

The fact is, the better you know people the better you can decide if they actually will stay or they just quit the game after playing for a month.
An advice for people who want to play a mage is easy, stay longer than 1 month in this game and on the board, have an interresting character and a char with depth and not one of those legions of "I will be a good student and train hard and help everyone and then I make that the sun always shines and the trees grow and the bird sing" *yawn*.

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Post by Retlak » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:53 pm

In order for me to learn magic on Seregon, I had to hide my identity.
There were discussions in OOC between magic teacher PO's against me as a player, how I should not be allowed to have magic.

Not so nice people.

-Matt

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Post by Mr. Cromwell » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:04 pm

Retlak wrote:In order for me to learn magic on Seregon, I had to hide my identity.
There were discussion in OOC against me as a player, how I should not be allowed to have magic.

Less friendly people.

-Matt
They just rightfully feared that you would out-powergame them in a matter of weeks. :P


Anyway, I hope they change the teaching system. I personally can't be arsed to wait for months for my character to become "interesting" for some uptight sod who then "mercifully" takes me as his/her personal plaything and slave, maybe someday graciously bestowing those runes on your char (assuming they're not busy/banned/powergaming/inactive/indifferent) if boredom, frustration or death to old age don't kill me first. Those few who survive the process to actually become teachers one day, will make sure to put the would-be students of their time through the same shit and misery as they've been through, 'cause "I had to wait for my runes 5 years too!!!!". So be patient!!!1one!

In the army, we called that hazing. ;)

Magic-learning needs more DIY.

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Post by Rekarafi » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:29 pm

Sure, but there are only a few teachers around, and RP-like and for the reason of having free time and not only being on speaking with students teachers can only have a certain number of students (i heard numbers from 1 to 3, this right?)

So not everyone can get a student, cause learning magic costs months. MANY months.
Cause of this reason mages choose their studends careful, guess they want to see the effort of the PO, cause no teacher will spend weeks on teaching a guy who deletes his char afterwards.
Thats why most tell you "if you wanna learn magic, first stick around for about a year." so they see you are active and willing to play further.

That are the reasons why there are so less students, this goes on to less mages/teachers, few students, few teachers...ye know how to go on.

If just...dunno, 10-20 active players would become mages with the teaching rune, the magic teaching system would flow.
And the mage population. It would be stupid if every guy could become a mage. Cause then most would. mages everywhere OMG!
I like it in the way it is, magic is nothing you can just learn in one day. Its somehow something special. Like magic is.
I mean, putting a slicer on a piece of wood and start scrabbling it, this is physics. but magic is...M A G I C !

(Everyone who is rebelling against this has no patience or failed in becoming a mage :lol: )

Over and out

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Post by Aust » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:22 pm

Wow.. I hit a nerve by the looks of it. Forget I ever said anything, lmao

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Post by Mr. Cromwell » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:56 pm

@Rekarafi

Actually, it's a game. Magic.. carpentery.. it should still be interesting and fun. Waiting for months before you maybe become another player's bitch with your character and then maybe getting the runes, is hardly interesting or fun. Well, alright.. I suppose that a full body-cavity search might be fun and interesting for some people, so why not this too? However, I think it's a false assumption that, like with body-cavity searches, that this system would be enjoyed by most who experience it (one way or another).

Playing a mage or not playing a mage should not:
1.) Be dependant on the player's superhuman endurance and patience when it comes to waiting for other players (waiting that is dependent on you, as in normal skilling, is actually fine)
2.) Be subject to the whims and fickle nature of bunch of elitist players ("You're too short, too smelly, too different, too average, too.. I just don't like you!"-kind of stuff from the Magic Academy thread).

I actually don't want to play a mage (at least now), and if I really wanted to play one, I guess I could find someone who'd be willing to teach my char pretty fast. :wink: So, actually I don't have any vested personal interest in this, rather: I woe on the new players who're stuck in limbo if they have the misfortune of wishing to play a mage.

That's gotta be one bummer (and I wouldn't be surprised if we would have lost a fair amount of people because of it).

So:
Magic (AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, ELVES!.. I mean, elves require certain experience/ability to come across as convincing elves, who cares about goblins? How does that require an application more than an elf?) should be something that you apply for. Then, when/if your application is accepted (and you show enough maturity to be allowed to play a mage) then you're free to "research magic" on your own.

In my opinion, the teacher-apprentice relationship should come from assisting in the research process, and not from a system where there's zero teaching quality control between the 'teaching styles' of different teachers (in english, this means that the lessons range from "Yo d00d, here's your rune.. Bai!" to a three hour interrogation about the history of the unseen university and your char's private life, or somesuch). I mean, makes sense that magic can actually be "studied" from written sources, rather than this (unlogical) dependancy on word of mouth in learning.

To turn your hypothesis (everyone arguing against, blabla) around, I'd say the people supporting the system are people who already have established mage chars (and want to feel themselves as 'special' and thus keep the "unworthy" people out with this ridiculous arrangement) or have teachers and who enjoy the groveling, begging and powertrip that the system grants them. :)

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Post by Athian » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:21 pm

I'll be glad to teach more people when i don't have to bend over and say "ahh" to one of the two groups that have free range to teach without losing skill. There are plenty more people with teaching runes then you might think that have no desire to teach anyone because the skill loss effects their own gameplay. Why should playing become more difficult for me just to help some newbie along that i don't even know? Without a method of teaching that doesn't suck the skills out of non affiliated magic folk you can all basically forget any end to the teaching bottleneck. Why the two teaching devices are allowed to be coveted by singular groups, I have no idea, but blame the powers that be for letting it occur. Many of us don't like the punishment of losing skill to help another player to develop. You'd think such service would be rewarded :roll:

The thing about magic is that its a powerful system. It doesn't take much actual skill for a person to start lording over others with such deadly power (Like a certain former Trollsbane guard :wink:). To avoid this magic was made harder to come by. and I for one don't think that it should change entirely.

I do however think that we can break down the concept of the magic user:
Allow there to be school trained/apprenticed mages and battlemages. this schooling benefits them the extra more powerful runes.

as opposed to that we can have the commoners mage (Hedge mage is a title used often enough). Make static quests that allow players to recieve the basic kinds of runes and spells, such a fire ball and ice ball, healing, food spell, stone wall, etc.

Don't base this on the stupid rune "level" concept because runes themselves can't be leveled. they are useless without one another meaning all runes actual level is 0. If you have the level 3(or 4 whatever) QWAN rune but no other runes to combine it with Qwan is worthless, so i say again this rune level system has and always will be stupid ^^

Anyway those people not satisfied with minor magics must continue there instruction with a teacher. Those who want to enjoy some simple magics are able to do so without being impeded.

Thats what i wish for anyway :D

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Post by Kaila Galathil Travinus » Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:35 am

Playing a mage ig requires: Lots of the PO's time even before "learning" magic, usually multiple teachers because there is no guarantee a teacher will continue to play the game or want to teach, LOTS and LOTS of PGing for the teacher and the student along with "the ability to RP effectively", membership in one of two groups that control where magic is taught without loosing skill and having even more PGing to get it back, and almost god-like/elitist powers on the part of the existing mages to "pick and choose" who will be "allowed" to become their student. The system, excuse the word...sucks. :P

I have no answer yet have read some suggestions. The one I like the best which would accomplish what I THINK the dev's might want i.e. not having every char ig be a mage, would be a written application process. Mage chars approved by the consensus of the GM's totally then relax on the PGing required. A teacher could still be required for advanced runes if want to set up that way. Delete the need for teaching rooms entirely allowing a teacher to teach anywhere without the loss of skill.

Just my two cents in this discussion, not intended to offend anyone.

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Post by Llama » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:45 pm

Djironnyma wrote:Sorry, but that is not true, of our seven current students i had know only 2 Players before they become students...
*hands Dji keys to a nice car* Any student space ;) ?

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Post by Morbius » Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:39 am

My god this post went way out of hand. Isnt it funny how such a siple request can tick off so many people.
But seriously i was just asking for a teacher, i didnt know how comlex this whole system was geee......

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Post by Retlak » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:09 pm

Do't worry Morbius, the people shouting in here are not shouting at you, they just like to turn every thread into a discussion about magic between themselves.

-Matt

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Post by Rekarafi » Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:33 pm

Mr. Cromwell wrote:@Rekarafi

Actually, it's a game. Magic.. carpentery.. it should still be interesting and fun. Waiting for months before you maybe become another player's bitch with your character and then maybe getting the runes, is hardly interesting or fun. Well, alright.. I suppose that a full body-cavity search might be fun and interesting for some people, so why not this too? However, I think it's a false assumption that, like with body-cavity searches, that this system would be enjoyed by most who experience it (one way or another).

Playing a mage or not playing a mage should not:
1.) Be dependant on the player's superhuman endurance and patience when it comes to waiting for other players (waiting that is dependent on you, as in normal skilling, is actually fine)
2.) Be subject to the whims and fickle nature of bunch of elitist players ("You're too short, too smelly, too different, too average, too.. I just don't like you!"-kind of stuff from the Magic Academy thread).

I actually don't want to play a mage (at least now), and if I really wanted to play one, I guess I could find someone who'd be willing to teach my char pretty fast. :wink: So, actually I don't have any vested personal interest in this, rather: I woe on the new players who're stuck in limbo if they have the misfortune of wishing to play a mage.

That's gotta be one bummer (and I wouldn't be surprised if we would have lost a fair amount of people because of it).

So:
Magic (AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, ELVES!.. I mean, elves require certain experience/ability to come across as convincing elves, who cares about goblins? How does that require an application more than an elf?) should be something that you apply for. Then, when/if your application is accepted (and you show enough maturity to be allowed to play a mage) then you're free to "research magic" on your own.

In my opinion, the teacher-apprentice relationship should come from assisting in the research process, and not from a system where there's zero teaching quality control between the 'teaching styles' of different teachers (in english, this means that the lessons range from "Yo d00d, here's your rune.. Bai!" to a three hour interrogation about the history of the unseen university and your char's private life, or somesuch). I mean, makes sense that magic can actually be "studied" from written sources, rather than this (unlogical) dependancy on word of mouth in learning.

To turn your hypothesis (everyone arguing against, blabla) around, I'd say the people supporting the system are people who already have established mage chars (and want to feel themselves as 'special' and thus keep the "unworthy" people out with this ridiculous arrangement) or have teachers and who enjoy the groveling, begging and powertrip that the system grants them. :)

Yeah, sure...but it is like it is, you can't force mage chars to teach your char.
And the point why mages dont take everyone i explained...you cannot change that mages wanna no time wasting, too

Most guys expect that they come around, say "hey i need a teacher because ~[insert random 08/15 reason here, f.e. wanna help people]~"
and everyone will run towards you "YEAH ILL TEACH YOU CHOOSE ME NOT THE OTHER 200 TEACHERS THAT WANT YOU!"
Well...uncle sam was wanting you...but the mages can live without that...

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Post by AlexRose » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:28 pm

I remember Athian took someone he'd never heard before just based on an interesting application. They'd written a poem. That meant insta acceptance for them. Sure if someone you know and like says to you "Hey can you teach my char?" you'll be like "yeah fine I'll add you to my list" and when you've finished your current you'll do theirs but that doesn't mean you don't take people from other sources too.

And the fact that Matt got teaching on Seregon without anyone knowing who he was ooc shows that noone was biased TOWARDS him.

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