Teig machen / Making dough

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Pancho
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Teig machen / Making dough

Post by Pancho »

Könnte der Weg, wie man Teig im Spiel herstellt spielerfreundlicher gestaltet werden?

Köche benötigen eine Menge Teig und für jede 5 Klumpen einen Eimer Wasser füllen, zum Ofen tragen, etc. ist ein wenig aufwändig.

Ich würde folgende Änderung vorschlagen:

Die Brunnen im Spiel werden zum notwendigen Statischen Tool um Teig zu kneten, im Gegensatz zu jetzt wo es Backöfen sind.

Wenn man den Brunnen benutzt kommt die Meldung "#me beginnt Teig zu kneten." und diese Arbeit läuft dann solange weiter bis das ganze Mehl das der Charakter trägt zu Teig umverarbeitet ist.

Auf die gleiche Art funktioniert soweit ich weiß auch das Barrengießen (Glas und Metalle), und Holzbretter sägen, man stellt sich mit dem notwendigen Material an das Tool, benutzt es und arbeitet (bis man von einer der Unterbrechungsmeldungen gestört wird, es abbricht oder kein Material mehr hat).

Da Teig wirklich ein in Massen gebrauchtes Produkt ist, so wie Holzbretter oder Eisenbarren für Schreiner und Schmiede, wäre das eine ziemliche Erleichterung für die Spieler von Köchen / Bäckern.

--------------------------

I suggest that the way dough is being made in-game is changed so it uses the same mechanism like sawing logs or smelting ingots:

Make the well the static tool for kneading dough, so when you use it your character starts to work on making dough until all the flour he carries is turned into dough (keep the interruption messages of course).

As dough is a mass-product for a cook similar to wooden boards for a carpenter or ingots for a smith, it'd be nice to relief the hands of cook players by not making them have to fill the bucket, carry the bucket, knead the dough, repeat.
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Dangron
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Post by Dangron »

Awesome suggestion, support it completely.
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Joxia Doral
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Post by Joxia Doral »

i agree also...either that or put the dough making near the well rather than the oven.
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Vern Kron
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Post by Vern Kron »

I don't really see a point to this. Just get a donkey to carry water. Its no different than when you have to go across the island to get coal, only to trek to a different part to get iron.
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Dangron
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Post by Dangron »

Vern Kron wrote:I don't really see a point to this. Just get a donkey to carry water. Its no different than when you have to go across the island to get coal, only to trek to a different part to get iron.
I'm guessing you're not a cook.
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Vern Kron
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Post by Vern Kron »

Yes, I have played a cook. That really doesn't matter in this case though, does it?
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Pellandria
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Post by Pellandria »

Actually it does, cooks allready need more steps to make one bread. Just let me illustrate the point with a small "what to do" of illarion crafts.

Carpenter>whacks tree->saws boards->makes stuff
Smith->mine coal/ore->melt->make stuff
Tailor->kill animals(I know there are other ways...->make stuff immedeatly or make another step to make your ressources usefull
Glassblower->dig for sand/burn wood->make glass ignots-> make stuff

and now for the Cook->plant grain->wait for 12 minutes to let it grow->cut the grain and thrash it->make flour->make dough->finnaly produce something
You see allready getting the ressources for baking is harder and more time wasting than any proffesion I know and not only that you allready have one more step of creating your ressourcesto work with, no both are either time wasting and or energy draining, thrashing grain alone takes a hell of food,and time, than the flour making which breaks after around 25 handfull of grain last time I checked and then carrying loads of water form point a to b.

So to summarize it, making dough or other steps of cooking easier is a goodway to go
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Drakon
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Post by Drakon »

Ah, come on...there are so many farmers selling grain or even flour... so your list would be shortened to (make flour->) make dough->finally produce something which isn't really longer than other ones... and sorry...if you're too lazy to search for a farmer, thats your fault not the engines.
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Pellandria wrote:Glassblower->dig for sand/burn wood->make glass ignots-> make stuff
Actually its

Dig for sand -> Filter Sand ->
Cut down tree -> Drop Logs on ground -> Set logs on fire -> Wait for fire to burn out -> Pick up 3 units of ash each time -> Make glass ingots -> Make stuff

That said, I fully agree with this suggestion.

This is a game, and games are supposed to be fun, dragging buckets around isn't fun.
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Aldan Vian
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Post by Aldan Vian »

Hadrian_Abela wrote:dragging buckets around isn't fun.

I agree with the suggestion. Its deffinatly not fun at the union.

Get water-run down stairs-make dough-place in depot-run up stairs- get water-run down stairs-make dough-place in depot
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Tanistian_Kanea
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Post by Tanistian_Kanea »

Drakon wrote:Ah, come on...there are so many farmers selling grain or even flour... so your list would be shortened to (make flour->) make dough->finally produce something which isn't really longer than other ones... and sorry...if you're too lazy to search for a farmer, thats your fault not the engines.
she was explaining the steps to get the resources for START to finish. Trees equal START for carpenters. Ore is the START for smithing. buying flour or grain would be the same as buying sand/coal/logs/thread . so before you call someone lazy for "not looking for someone to buy something from" consider that it may not be financially viable to do so. and second.
Last edited by Tanistian_Kanea on Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Pancho
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Post by Pancho »

Vern Kron wrote:I don't really see a point to this. Just get a donkey to carry water. Its no different than when you have to go across the island to get coal, only to trek to a different part to get iron.
You have to fill every bucket with water manually (save you do not wish to use a bug to fill several buckets at once).

You have to push every bucket of water in your mule depot into your belt or bag manually to continue making dough.

Making dough from flour takes a lot more time and clicking than comparable tasks (saw boards from logs / smelt ingots at a smelter), where you just have to have the item (log / ores) in your belt and can do your work without needing a reagent (bucket of water) for the finished product of this production step.

Imagine that you have to add a bucket of water to the process of smelting five ingots (because somehow they have to cool off too, no?), then smelting and making dough would take the same time and clicking,
would you like that? Would that mean more fun or benefit the game in any way?

Personally I think no it won't. So why does making dough require a bucket of water while smelting does not?

Similar crafts should work similarily.
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Saigwin
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Post by Saigwin »

Hmm, While I support the changes there are some points I dont think some get.
First of all if you cant make a point without name calling just bugger off. WE DONT NEED IT.

Growing grain is not the starting point for cooks...its farming. Ore is a starting point for mining not smithing. trees are the starting point for lumberjacks not carpenters.

I think the steps involved are balanced but the dough making process is quite a bit harder than any other simply because of the bucket step. A simple fix wood be one bucket does all thing or at least reduce the number of buckets required.

Ok now you can start calling me names if you like.
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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

Nobody will call anybody names or insult anyone anymore, this ain't no kindergarten.

On topic: The basic proposal has a valid point; making dough features no static tool while this is required for most other crafts. We don't have such a static tool atm; a well is totally unintuitive. It sounds like a quick and dirty fix to me.

So; I have a question: Would making a bucket last e.g. twice the amount of dough help the situation? What about the weight of buckets, is it too high, per chance?

Edit: I can answer the latter question with a clear YES. Two buckets have a higher weight than a plate mail...
Last edited by Estralis Seborian on Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pancho
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Post by Pancho »

I am not talking about the whole crafts, I compare similar steps in every craft singled out and exclusively, there's nothing more to my suggestion than that, just a single and simple change on one craft, not reinventing everything:

I compared

smelting an ingot in smithing

sawing wooden boards in carpentry

making dough in cooking/baking

And realized that for some reason making dough is "harder" (takes more time and work from the player) than smelting an ingot or sawing wooden boards, so I suggest it is made as "easy" (less time and work from the player in clicking around), as the two other comparable steps are.

It is beyond me how people can argue against making things easier when keeping them like they are does not serve any purpose (imho) whatsover.

<Edit: Just saw the response, will answer shortly>
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Dangron
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Post by Dangron »

@Estralis: We don't need a new tool, just make buckets last longer.
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Pancho
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Post by Pancho »

Estralis Seborian wrote:making dough features no static tool while this is required for most other crafts. We don't have such a static tool atm;
We do, you knead dough at an baking oven.
a well is totally unintuitive. It sounds like a quick and dirty fix to me.
It's where I would get water for the dough. Also that is easily circumvented when you make the "Nudelholz" (tool for kneading dough dont know the english word), inform the character when he's using it "You need to stand at a well to make dough!" and trust players that they'll help each other and tell each other how to do things.

Either that or scrap the concept for needing water alltogether.

How does it contribute to the game that you need water to knead dough (realism?) but need no water to cool of ingots which just pop up in your inventory cold and useable eventhough you just heated them up seconds before. (no realism because of convenience).

Do not get me wrong, I'd prefer making things easier instead of adding water to smithing which won't excite anyone.

Convenience over realism anytime.
So; I have a question: Would making a bucket last e.g. twice the amount of dough help the situation? What about the weight of buckets, is it too high, per chance?
Yes to both, but as I said previously. Comparable work like sawing logs or smelting ingots does not use a reagent like a bucket of water, while the overall importance of the item that is produced by this work (boards / ingots / dough) for the corresponding craft is equal in all three.

Nevertheless for some reason it's harder to make dough (bucket of water) than making the other two, what for?
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Post by Rekarafi »

Yeah, i would suggest make 1 bucket for a 5-time-use in making dough.

So it will be 25 dough per bucket of water, and cooks wouldnt be forced to run around with a donkey or 10 buckets in their bag.

I would also agree with 20, but 15 is too less i think.
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Vern Kron
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Post by Vern Kron »

Being somewhat out of touch in the cooking area for a while now, is making dough also a "Use bucket, use flour, get 5 dough infront of oven" situation? Or is it "Use oven while holding flour and bucket, wait for bucket to run out, repeat." If it is the latter, is there any skill gain involved in that, or not?

If so, then I suggest a boost to the number it produces, increase the speed at which it produces dough, and perhaps (totally just thought up in my mind, no -real- point to it other than realism.) use some sort of table while holding a rolling pin to activate dough making. Not a fancy table like carpenters, but a table like the ones in Eliza's.

If not, then could we just increase the number produced, and let it be an instant sort of thing?
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Pellandria
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Post by Pellandria »

As I think this mostly means me I felt free to copy saigwins post
Saigwin wrote: Growing grain is not the starting point for cooks...its farming. Ore is a starting point for mining not smithing. trees are the starting point for lumberjacks not carpenters.
I think there might be a slight msiunderstanding, I simply showed the way of "getting ressources->transform them->make stuff" not the "that you need to do to have job a" way.

Making the bucket last longer, a cooking bucket has atleast 9 "charges" , as long as I know, is a good idea.
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