Okay so I've had this real issue....

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

Moderator: Gamemasters

Post Reply
Theory
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:00 am
Location: New York

Okay so I've had this real issue....

Post by Theory »

Now, why is that roleplayers always seem to expect a happy go lucky bard and if they're not they criticize the roleplay with their own saying how the character should write what the people want to hear? I find this a bit of a problem.

I write not specifically for the game, I am a poet and like the writing that I do, which is truthful writing. But because of this stereotyping of bardic roleplays I'm at a loss of money, and I only bard for money which is a problem. What's so wrong with a not so happy intellectual bard?

Also, it really gets to me when I perform for a character who's roleplay has never been one of a bard or anything related to bard and that they blatantly mock my work having no background with the job. I can take a comment and an honest criticism but don't constantly melt down my character with negative ones, because they are, in a way, directed at me since it is my writing.

Why is it that intellectual bards like myself who speak the truth of life and such get hated on while the sugar coating happy go lucky bards are all the rage? Does nobody's characters' enjoy dark art or intellectual art? Even if they don't I am roleplaying as a bard and lets admit, bards are an endangered species. I need to make money for supplies and roleplay events just like smiths and warriors. And this blasted stereotype of bards really lowers my chances of receiving payment.

In short, please have an open mind about bards and stop giving them the short end of the stick for being different in their works.
User avatar
wolfsword
Posts: 671
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:21 am
Location: PO Samuel and Fernando [Hobbits]

Post by wolfsword »

I don't really notice, but... I'd prefer a good dark ballad than a happy-go-lucky one any day.
Theory
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:00 am
Location: New York

Post by Theory »

Well, every time I manage to find a listener or even a group. The majority always seem to hate on my character because he doesn't do the typical happy go luck sugar coated songs and poetry. I don't want to change my personal writing style to survive in a game and I don't see why I would have to follow other players standards.
Ambrosine
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: City of Dis

Post by Ambrosine »

I have to say, my first character was a bard, and pretty much the only "songs" (poems) she ever got paid any money for were the creepy ones told "late at night" around campfires (3 silver a song is a pretty good amount for any entertainer).

Also, a good number of players will pay hefty coin for an epic (or even a ditty, depending on your opinion of epic) written about their character.

Work isn't always gonna be about what you want to do. If you want to earn gold, write what people want to hear and earn enough for your char to support themselves, and spend the rest of the time telling people what they need to hear.

Strike a balance between the work and the play, and you'll have a pretty satisfying time.
1d20
Posts: 816
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 6:04 pm

Re: Okay so I've had this real issue....

Post by 1d20 »

Theory wrote:don't constantly melt down my character with negative ones, because they are, in a way, directed at me since it is my writing.
I think that's your only issue right there, to be honest.

If other characters insult your character's poetry and YOU, the PO feel insulted, then you may have misconceptions of what roleplay is.
Theory
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:00 am
Location: New York

Post by Theory »

No, no, I understand perfectly what roleplay is. The issue is how can a character who has no experience at all related to bards and all that be able to say a poem is bad without giving proper reasoning. I mean immediately after I finish they do it, without second thought. I find this a little crude and offensive that they obviously didn't try to see into the work.
Work isn't always gonna be about what you want to do. If you want to earn gold, write what people want to hear and earn enough for your char to support themselves, and spend the rest of the time telling people what they need to hear.
The problem is I write for myself, if I begin writing for others well, then I might lose the ability of which I'm at, which isn't good for me in personal life and could affect my future plans.
User avatar
Aldan Vian
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:48 am
Location: Eating a cookie!

Post by Aldan Vian »

I used to have the same problem the time I played a bard. Since I wrote the songs for myself and honestly I think the darker more drammatic songs and poems are far better anyway. I ended up writing epic poems for people...
User avatar
Taiah
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:38 pm
Contact:

Post by Taiah »

The issue is how can a character who has no experience at all related to bards and all that be able to say a poem is bad without giving proper reasoning.
It is the character that is talking or singing to other characters. Your character may be offended their song is not enjoyed however he is probably singing to a drunk group of chars in the tavern, or similar, maybe even warriors who want a rowdy song of fighting or women. If the player is getting offended because his poems are not enjoyed by other players however, that is not RP. I have never earned much as a bard and am usually just happy for the RP, occasionally have had someone give me an instrument which was very nice.
1d20
Posts: 816
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 6:04 pm

Post by 1d20 »

Theory wrote:No, no, I understand perfectly what roleplay is. The issue is how can a character who has no experience at all related to bards and all that be able to say a poem is bad without giving proper reasoning. I mean immediately after I finish they do it, without second thought. I find this a little crude and offensive that they obviously didn't try to see into the work.
Work isn't always gonna be about what you want to do. If you want to earn gold, write what people want to hear and earn enough for your char to support themselves, and spend the rest of the time telling people what they need to hear.
The problem is I write for myself, if I begin writing for others well, then I might lose the ability of which I'm at, which isn't good for me in personal life and could affect my future plans.
The character thinking your music sucks doesn't mean the player thinks your music suck.

Don't take anything that happens IC'ly personally, it pretty much ruins roleplay.
Theory
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:00 am
Location: New York

Post by Theory »

Well, no, it was just a single character who was highly sober. Just a bit ignorant as nothing pleased em.
1d20
Posts: 816
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 6:04 pm

Post by 1d20 »

And why did it hurt your RL feelings? If the character is being mean and crude, doesn't mean the player thinks the same.

That's the whole concept of separating yourself from your character.
Theory
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:00 am
Location: New York

Post by Theory »

I did do that, it's not like I blew up in their faces or anything. But I am rather sick of my RP following the same routine. Meet audience, recite a few poems, all of em hate em etc. which happens a bit too often.
Ambrosine
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:35 pm
Location: City of Dis

Post by Ambrosine »

I hate to discourage you, but have you considered that your poetry may not be all that appropriate for the game? Performance, by it's nature, must be tailored to the audience. And entertaining is a Bard's job.

(( Also: I challenge you!
:D
Bard Battle))

Really, I'm wondering what your purpose is in posting this. Is it to complain that you're not getting money? Is the RP lackluster? I'm lost.
The money's your own problem, don't bring it OOG.
If the RP's the problem you're gonna have to keep trying (preferably with different people :) )).
The key to an awesome bard really is luck: hitting the right place with the right song at the right time.
Or having a lot of encouraging friends. :D

BTW: Being a bard is WORK.
Theory
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:00 am
Location: New York

Post by Theory »

I know this all to well. Not all my poetry is appropriate but either I manage with most of it making sense.

Err....want to pm me your "attack" AKA poem?

The point of posting this is I'm just wondering why is it everybody my character meets he has no luck getting decent listeners. But I know this from past plays with a bard but it was kind of odd that everyone whom I've performed has said something about my bard being depressed or not so happy, to which I respond OOCly:

"What does it matter?"

I'm just kinda ticked that everyone I get to listen to me wants a sugar coated bard.
User avatar
Vern Kron
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Post by Vern Kron »

It is not so much that people dislike a 'grumpy angry dark' bard. Their characters do. And if there is something sad happening, a bard going on about the end of the world/dark things, could be what drives a character to suicide. Which thus would involve heated feelings. People generally prefer happiness over sadness.

Plus.. it would be really nice occasionally for a happy bard to come around. I have seen a few grumpy bards. I have seen one happy one. And one madly in love, and ended going insane for it. Personally, I liked all of them, but the one who got people up and dancing was my favorite.


Thats my flat out opinion on the issue. Also, just because the characters hated your songs (and it could be the atmosphere may be saying everyone now hates bards) the PO's could like it.
Theory
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:00 am
Location: New York

Post by Theory »

Insane one? Yea that was probably mine. :roll:
User avatar
Vern Kron
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Post by Vern Kron »

No. Not yours. I think I have met all of yours. The insane one did some.. insane things. Oops.

The important thing I think to rp'ing is actual musical quality. If you were put on one of those singing shows, where the people vote, would this get you to the next round, or would you be dropped like you were hot?
User avatar
Pellandria
Posts: 2604
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 6:06 pm
Location: Running around
Contact:

Post by Pellandria »

I will be honest here, I don't know your "dark" Bard, but I know Cleril and I have to say, I don't think he really was a good bard or poet, it was more "throwing random words around".
~
Cleril: Talimer
Cleril: Intellect
Cleril: Mind
Cleril: I am kind, gentle, loving
Cleril: A great deed, a good man.
Cleril: Sane and Solemn
Cleril: I am decietful
Cleril: Conivving
Cleril: rough edged
Cleril: An evil sin, a born liar
Cleril: Insane and crazy....
~

Thats something I found within my logs and I must say..I'm not really
impressed by this at all, maybe its the language barrier or not, but from what I have seen from bards ig was to this point was nothing that would either impress me nor my char.
The problem with bards ig is always the same, there seem to be only two kinds of ~bards~ really ig, the first kind just steals random Rl songs and sing them, the second kind read poems, probaply their own, which aren't impressiv, I'm sorry to say this, but from what I have heard from bards till now was more or less..bad, just recently the bard contest in silverbrand showed me that bards ig simply don't seem to impress me in any way.


So to sum it up, even if someone finds your bards poems and songs bad..would that not only "fuel" his own ~darkness~ or ~dislike~ against other people? For the other part, its important to craft a good atmosphere, even if the song or poem is bad, a good atmosphere still can pull alot out of the game, sadly we don't have music ig, it would be a great step towards bard rp, if we could not imagen but actually hear a song.
User avatar
rakust dorenstkzul
Posts: 2300
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:47 pm
Location: In the heart of every smiling child

Post by rakust dorenstkzul »

Pellandria wrote:it was more "throwing random words around"
Welcome to poetry, yo.
User avatar
Bellringer
Posts: 867
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:55 pm

Post by Bellringer »

Bardy-person, perhaps you just need to learn to distinguish between IG and RL? People want to assassinate several of my characters, but I don't take this personally in real life.

Calm yourself down, if you want my honest opinion, complaining about this out of game is pathetic. Get back in game, sing, and whether you impress them or not remember it's your character not you.
User avatar
AlexRose
Posts: 4790
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:18 pm
Location: Megajiggawhat?

Post by AlexRose »

At first what I thought was:

Maybe their characters just want to hear happy music. Do you really want to be in a restaurant and some guy comes over and sings depressing music at you? Wouldn't you get annoyed? Maybe their characters are annoyed about your character bringing down the mood.

Then after reading Pellandria's post I thought:

Who the hell wants to hear one man sit in the corner complimenting himself and saying completely unconnected words for no reason? That's not poetry, that's spam, noone wants to read that. And you wonder why you got negative reactions when you sit there typing "intellect" and then seem to think that's it's offensive to you RL that people get annoyed by it.

If you honestly think that's good poetry worth reading then you may as well give up on the bard character in general. Maybe you should consider playing a character who is within your abilities? e.g. I don't try and play a character who can speak the old language, because I can't speak German. Maybe you shouldn't play a bard if you can't write lyrics.

EDIT: O WAIT I thought Cleril was your character, misunderstood :P . Apologies if that isn't the case and you're actually a regular Shakespeare.

Well then, just the first comment applies then.
Theory
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:00 am
Location: New York

Post by Theory »

Cleril was my character. The poem is question is one of my first poems which I don't recite anymore in game. Also, that was a long time ago. Our definition of poetry is quite different.

For the record, many people (unless you're all two faced or con artists) enjoyed Cleril's work. You only just saw one of my first works which is now a year old or so.

Cleril: Talimer
Cleril: Intellect
Cleril: Mind
Cleril: I am kind, gentle, loving
Cleril: A great deed, a good man.
Cleril: Sane and Solemn
Cleril: I am decietful
Cleril: Conivving
Cleril: rough edged
Cleril: An evil sin, a born liar
Cleril: Insane and crazy....

Okay, now I know I didn't type Talimer or Intellect as those are not words in the poem in question which is "Mind." If I did they didn't connect to the poem anyway so it's all taken out of context.
User avatar
Hawkmoon
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:56 pm

Post by Hawkmoon »

Well if that mean anything - i like the bard chars. Think they make the world more alive for sure. And I can see the poetry in that style for sure. My char like it as well. And even if POs don't like the bards and so on, why not play as the chars like it unless you have a good reason not to like it. BArds should be encouraged as I see it.
Post Reply