The More you know... the less you learn

cheffu · Post by **cheffu** » Sat May 30, 2009 11:56 am

why not just limit the goods "donated" by defeating monsters (IG lol)
so the fighters still have to buy what they need.

Roland Tafar · Post by **Roland Tafar** » Sat May 30, 2009 12:11 pm

Because the goods you find mostly are ignored by fighters. Except special things that no craftman can produce.

I get all I need from cooks, tailors or smithes.

Roland Tafar · Post by **Roland Tafar** » Sat May 30, 2009 12:17 pm

Mr. Cromwell wrote:

However, I do question your (and likewise my own) right to be as good in the additional skills as those guys who specialize or focus in that. It doesn't mean that you suddenly have to stop hunting or cooking

Tell me why. Why can't you let people play as they want? Why force them by changing a system of functioning attributes and skills?
I (my char) had the choice to be an average craftman, hunter and whatever he wanted to be - or to be a very good craftman or a very good fighter and lousy in all other things.
I've chosen to be a very good fighter. I am a cook but lousy, I am working on the field but lousy and I run always against trees because I can't see them. Too less dexterity and other attributes. But I can do whatever I want (what a familyman has to do as his duties).

Isn't this what you want? Which changes are necessary? I am specialized. Whatever I produce, it isn't good enough for my personal needs and not good enough to sell. Whenever I need things, I have to buy them from professionals.
You list a lot of names of fighter-smithes. Are they like me or are they perfect fighters-perfect smithes? I don't believe this.
Although a system has to be proved at its longtime effect, I don't speak only of highskilled people, because the decision to reduce dexterity (for example) reduces also the possibilities of lower developped fighters. They cannot work as good as other low developped but specialized workers.

In summary, I agree to your thoughts about the necessitiy of specialization, but I think it is already given in this regard (between fighters, mages or workers). Perhaps we need more specialization between different handcrafts. If possible, every special work should have a special leading attribute (the idea of Estralis). To support crafters, we should encourage those allround-crafters (woodworker-cooker-tailor-smithes) to acquire mastership in their main profession.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Sat May 30, 2009 1:13 pm

The thing is, Roland, that you may be a specialised fighter today, but 'tomorrow' when you have reached max you can pick another profession and max that too.. and so on.
The difference between here and real life is that if while being "master" in something, if you don't practice it every day and concentrate on something different, you don't forget it and you dont get out of practice.. you'll still be a master even after 10 years without slashing a single sword in that time.

Taiah · Post by **Taiah** » Sat May 30, 2009 3:28 pm

Those that are eventual masters have been in game a long time also. A nice freedom of the game is to be able to choose without restriction and change when they want rather then making a new character.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat May 30, 2009 4:46 pm

Taiah wrote:Those that are eventual masters have been in game a long time also. A nice freedom of the game is to be able to choose without restriction and change when they want rather then making a new character.

I'm not arguing against the freedom of choosing skill. Read what I said.

Taiah · Post by **Taiah** » Sat May 30, 2009 5:37 pm

Mr. Cromwell wrote:
Taiah wrote:Those that are eventual masters have been in game a long time also. A nice freedom of the game is to be able to choose without restriction and change when they want rather then making a new character.
I'm not arguing against the freedom of choosing skill. Read what I said.

However, what I am saying is that after you have chosen a field for you, I feel that it is perfectly reasonable to either discriminate and disadvantage your char indirectly or directly when he wants to do something else (and 'only' in that else). This doesn't mean that you are unable to craft or skill whatever you want, however it does mean that the other guy will do it better than you, or that you will do it worse than him, even if you PG to his level.

If a player wants to be very good in a field and not "disadvantaged" they would need to make a new character rather then use the one they have roleplayed with for a long time. To take up another profession due to roleplay or just loosing interest in the one they started and knowing they would already be disadvantaged in that profession doesn't sound fun or make the game enjoyable especially to the older players who should be encouraged to stay in the game. Has anyone mentioned, that some characters may buy from these well known chars even though they may charge more simply because they may enjoy roleplaying with these characters also?

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat May 30, 2009 8:49 pm

When one of those things happens, I'll tell you

-

I did say we needed more control over skills - so if in theory you've roleplayed your fighter losing an arm, there should be a way for you to reduce your fighting skill so you can learn how to smith with one hand or something.

But I need a way to solve the fighter/crafter hybrids

AlexRose · Post by **AlexRose** » Sat May 30, 2009 9:57 pm

Dom never picked up a smithing hammer in his life unless he was gonna kill you with it.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat May 30, 2009 11:51 pm

Taiah wrote:
Mr. Cromwell wrote:
Taiah wrote:Those that are eventual masters have been in game a long time also. A nice freedom of the game is to be able to choose without restriction and change when they want rather then making a new character.
I'm not arguing against the freedom of choosing skill. Read what I said.

However, what I am saying is that after you have chosen a field for you, I feel that it is perfectly reasonable to either discriminate and disadvantage your char indirectly or directly when he wants to do something else (and 'only' in that else). This doesn't mean that you are unable to craft or skill whatever you want, however it does mean that the other guy will do it better than you, or that you will do it worse than him, even if you PG to his level.
If a player wants to be very good in a field and not "disadvantaged" they would need to make a new character rather then use the one they have roleplayed with for a long time. To take up another profession due to roleplay or just loosing interest in the one they started and knowing they would already be disadvantaged in that profession doesn't sound fun or make the game enjoyable especially to the older players who should be encouraged to stay in the game. Has anyone mentioned, that some characters may buy from these well known chars even though they may charge more simply because they may enjoy roleplaying with these characters also?

Yes, but like Avalyon said: They're like grasshoppers then. They jump from one skill to the other, maxing them and consequently flooding the game with items from each category as they up the skill. Then, in a while, they're like Juche-Ideal-North Korea, whooping evil imperialists while being completely self-sufficient with pretty much everything (how awesome example is that anyway?

).

I agree with you that players should be allowed to change the roles of their chars to a degree. However, there should be a choice involved here. Why not? If you actually want to change the role of your char, then well.. how do you expect to change it without actually changing anything for real? Want to have your cake and eat it too? So, when you change your role, then your previous role becomes disadvantaged. The Gamemasters and Devs generally are not assholes (for most of the time anyway

) so I can very well see that if you actually say to them that "blablablaa my char is getting older and now he was injured and wants to settle down with his wife, I want to make him less of a fighter and more of a craftsman" they would actually say "cool, we'll help you with that". However, if you cannot reallly come up with any roleplaying related reason for that, is it really a change in the role of the char then?

I hope that you also understand that skilling up with an old char is incredibly more easy in crafting than doing the same with a new char. The reason is, that you can actually make a loss all the time and buy resources to speed up your skilling (I actually tried this). So increasing numerous skills with an old char is usually the lazy and easy way of doing things, and especially those PO's who're seemingly maxing everything should really consider the fact that they're shifting from actual roleplaying to persona play (or at very least, the actual roleplaying is being overcome by.. other stuff). But ah well, I should try not to be so judgmental.