How does the "atmosphere" of Illarion feel like?

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

Moderator: Gamemasters

Post Reply
User avatar
Dyluck
Posts: 2354
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 9:32 am
Location: The Future
Contact:

How does the "atmosphere" of Illarion feel like?

Post by Dyluck »

I'm sure everyone has their own perception of what the "atmosphere" of Illarion feels like, so I just wanted to gain a little insight.
Hmm... so let me elaborate a bit. There's a few different layers to this question really, and you can answer it any way you like.

For example, let's look at the "medieval" aspect of this medieval fantasy game. There are some differences among our medieval perceptions of say, England, France, and Germany. To me, for example, when I think of medieval England, I think of darker grass, darker skies, and red cloths. When I think of medival France, I think of brighter castles and churches, musketeers, and blue cloths. My perceptions are probably shaped by television. Obviously the game was made by mostly Germans, but how much "German" influence is in the visual design? I'm not sure myself, because I don't know much about medieval Germany, and my only thoughts of it involve orange cloths, probably just because it's one of their colors. Personally, Illarion feels more medieval "England" to me (at least back when I played), because the atmosphere seems pretty basic, and doesn't seem to have the bright grandeur or luxurious feel of say, the perception of medieval France, at least on TV. This might have something to do with the overall lack of castles and churches in Illarion as well.

Next, factor in the fact that Illarion has a pantheon of gods, and all of a sudden Illarion might not even feel that medieval at all. When I think of medieval scenarios, I think of things like King Arthur, The 3 Musketeers, or LOTR, and the presence of gods are not very apparent in those. When a pantheon of gods are involved, it tends to remind me of Ancient Greek more than anything. However, Illarion probably doesn't feel very "Greek", because it lacks visual cues that feel "Greek", such as their iconic white pillars and togas. Also, the presence of the gods aren't felt as much as in the Greek stories, probably because the gods are mostly only mentioned verbally, and their individual peronality traits and attributes don't seem to have much influence on the physical or visual environment.

Now perhaps you don't really feel much of the European or Ancient influence in your perception of Illarion's atmosphere. Perhaps you only feel the atmosphere of Illarion based on your own evolving experienes and the changing state of the community within the ingame world. For example, when you first arrive, you are likely to feel like you've arrived on a new land, with a very frontier feel to it. Perhaps later on, you also start to feel the influence of magic and gods, and evil creatures, and developing a story for your character. As time goes on, you may feel like it's a place where you can go to relax and chat by the campfire with friends. Eventually, as you become more and more involved in the overall state of the community, you may start to feel the effects of the political struggles taking place between various groups. Now that I hear you have day and night and different weather, perhaps you may feel even a wider range of different visual atmospheres to the game.

For me, I've gone through some of these stages where I've experienced a different "feel" to Illarion over time. However, I've always felt that Illarion lacked a true overarching "atmosphere" that could define an image for the game. Illarion has always sold itself on the image of a pure "roleplaying" game, but what "else" about it is supposed to be attractive to outsiders? What exactly is the "atmosphere" or "feel" of Illarion's story or world that players will want to roleplay in? The closest thing to a unifying or identifying story of Illarion is the gods and their story, but obviously this aspect of the game doesn't really get brought up quite enough, or at least it hasn't really been "advertised" externally and internally very much as a main feature or "driving force" for the game and its events.

So enough of me writing word after word in "quotations". How does the atmosphere of Illarion feel like to you?
User avatar
Jupiter
Developer
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 11:23 am

Post by Jupiter »

To be honest the only thing which seems medieval in Illarion to me are the weapons.

The behaviour of the chars are often more influenced by humanism and the Age of Enlightenment.

About the gods...the are SADLY not like the gods of the old Greeks in anyway. They are more like the Christian God - not there. Why can't Irmorom go one time to the dwarves and say: "Hello."?
Or why can't Ronagan help a char to escape from prison?

And I miss mysticism in Illarion...

The gods-thing is a staff problem, they decide how close the gods are to the chars. And the rest is much of a player-made problem.
We all may try to change it.
User avatar
Olaf Tingvatn
Posts: 935
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:23 am
Location: Norway, Lyngdal, Scandinavia

Post by Olaf Tingvatn »

well, illaRIONs atmosphere to me got allot better when the night and day effect was put in the game. IllaRION is a 'fantasy' game, the gods make it feel more like a christian fantasy game to me honestly...but thats just atheist me being annoyed:P and when the ambiance is added like footsteps, different sounds for night and day and so on the atmosphere will get even better. bottom line: illaRIONs atmosphere is that of medieval, fantasy with all the magic and different races with different abilities.

what keeps me coming back to illaRION is the role playing experiences and fun that i have had since i first discovered this very unique game:)
User avatar
Djironnyma
Posts: 3221
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 4:34 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Post by Djironnyma »

Jupiter: that such things dont happens to your char means not that such things dont happens in general. The "gods" (or at least avaters of them) are sometimes ig, but that is very rarely and i think that is good.

---

But anyway, i agree with Jupiter that illarion isnt really medieval all in all. That have in my opinion two reasons, first as he had say, the people are to humanistic. Also the magic in illa is two common - and here i mean all magic also druids and magical weapons, teleporter ect. .

For me the "atmosphere" of Illarion feels not like something you could find in rl. It is some own. A chaotic evil, magical fantasyworld. In my opinion Illarion is like endless version of diablo with roleplay. I mean we simply dont have to care about the thinks which harm the people in medieval (famine, pestilence, Vikings, ...). The things which harm us are all three weeks a new demon/necromancer/drow/evil-what-ever and some more or less pseudo-evil guilds. Nearly any new GM try to give us more evil, more powerful, a more demonic, a more in all enemy, thats nice for the most players, but for those who play illarion rly long (and activ ;) ) that make a atmosphere were you only think "well... only a other evil threat... we will survive some way", as i had say like in diablo.

Well as you can see, for me things like graphic make not so much atmosphere for me. Manly atmosphere comes for me with the long time ig happenings. Indeed the weather and lightning system and such feats a very very cewl... but they only boost the diablo-feeling for me in the end *g*.
User avatar
Jupiter
Developer
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 11:23 am

Post by Jupiter »

Djironnyma wrote:Jupiter: that such things dont happens to your char means not that such things dont happens in general. The "gods" (or at least avaters of them) are sometimes ig, but that is very rarely and i think that is good.
No, it is not good.
I will show why:

What will happen if we get the priestsystem? Nearly every char will be suddenly very religious and we will have 1,000,000 priest (or ever more!!!!). And every char will run to a priest saying "gimme help! love your god, too."
This WILL happen.
It is normally that something like this happens when a new system comes ig, so waht is so bad about it? Bad about it is that religion is in Illarion currently something like a must, but nothing which belongs to the deepness of your char. In other words: without system the religion ig is very poor - and it is this way.
The only wayto change this attiutde are wonders. What do you think will happen, if a bad criminial escapes from the prison with the help of Ronagan? He will tell it around and soon Ronagan is loved by our criminials, really loved.

The younger gods are there to influence the happenings on Illarion - but I never saw or heard that they really do.
The only "holy" things happend in the time I play this game was this strange ambos in Tb ones and the big god-changing quest a few weeks ago...but this quest was pretty strange and the use of it is unknonw to..I guess, neraly everyone.
User avatar
Rhianna Morgan
Posts: 988
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:43 pm
Location: Nordmark

Post by Rhianna Morgan »

@ the god thing.

Actually I have to admit I am in the middle of your two oppinions.

I think that gods are pretty missed ig, because most players don't talk about them, don't think about them, and really, to be honest, there are FEW chars who are praying to a special deity.
On the other hand, GMs could help it a bit. But only a tiny bit. Without the POs playing along it is all going to end in confusion and without real religions.
So, to Djironnyma, there could be a bit more godlike action IG. Because the gods in Illa really walk around and do stuff, they are not omnipresent like the christian god.
And to Jupiter: This is the same problem like the thing with the modern ideas of humanity and enlightment. People mix their own experiences, education, and their own modern ideas with the MEDIEVAL fantasy world Illarion. If the PO is Atheist, he will have great difficulties to make his char be a strong believer in any god. Although most chars should be exactly this.

Some gods are being prejudiced aswell.

For example, Ronaghan. If your char walks around and prays to Ronaghan, everyone is just going to say: Another thief!!! But why should he be criminal? He could also be someone really miserable who prays to the God of the poors, not only the criminals.
Same thing with Moshran. But I guess a follower of Moshran is less likely to be just a poor streetrat and more likely to be someone with an aggressive attitude.

There are some gods who are at least played out in some circles. Tanora and Oldra are the best examples, but also Zhambra. There are people who actually pray to them when they get a new clansister / page / member of Zzyathis.

But most gods are simply not really played. Some chars write or say *Oldras (etc) blessings* when they finish a letter / an conversation. Most chars say simply *farewell*.
It is kind of sad, but actually most chars don't even react adequate if you threaten them in the name of any deity. "Tanora will punish you if you harm my children!" An elf once answered on that phrase "So what?". I guess he thought it was a ROFL-situation. I felt more like punching the PO *g*.

To the GMs thing: Perhaps wonders might help people to make their chars believe in a special deity. But I guess most players are not really believing in any god themselves and therefore forget that their chars should be different. As long as the Player mentality does not change, we will have far too few religious people ig. I know most GMs and Questers are really busy. But if any of them has some spare time and no quest running, perhaps he or she might want to jump IG as a deity, and visit some followers. Only if they like of course ;).

I am nervous when I think about the upcoming priest system. Suddenly there will be far too many priests, at least in the beginning phase of the system. I hate it already. You walk down a street and meet three priests of different gods, most of them perhaps not even played in a great way.

I want to ask everyone who wants to rp a priest to think of one thing: You need a fold behind you to be a good priest. A priest without followers is nothing. And if there are more priests than common chars, we will not have enough folds. Perhaps the best starting idea for the upcoming system would be to really think what god/goddess your usual chars believe in. Atheists are VERY unusual in Illarion, I guess.

Wow, I just notice I wrote far more than I wanted to. Hope it was not all that bad ;)
User avatar
orgis
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:32 pm

Post by orgis »

Illarions gods don't really get much of a say in the human race, whilst the other races usually have their god, e.g. orcs =moshy, lizards = fish goddes (forgot her name :roll: ), dwarfs = irm... you know who i mean! lol

Other than that, iv hardly seen any char other than the odd mad raving preist talk about the gods lol
User avatar
AlexRose
Posts: 4790
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:18 pm
Location: Megajiggawhat?

Post by AlexRose »

Olaf Tingvatn wrote:well, illaRIONs atmosphere to me got allot better when the night and day effect was put in the game. IllaRION is a 'fantasy' game, the gods make it feel more like a christian fantasy game to me honestly...but thats just atheist me being annoyed:P and when the ambiance is added like footsteps, different sounds for night and day and so on the atmosphere will get even better. bottom line: illaRIONs atmosphere is that of medieval, fantasy with all the magic and different races with different abilities.

what keeps me coming back to illaRION is the role playing experiences and fun that i have had since i first discovered this very unique game:)
Can I just ask, why do you write illaRION instead of illarion?
User avatar
Llama
Posts: 7685
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:02 pm
Location: The VBU is awesome
Contact:

Post by Llama »

Because he dislikes it when people say "Illa" instead of all of it.

*sniff they deleted my earlier post*
User avatar
Vern Kron
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Post by Vern Kron »

Aegohl wrote:Island Happenings:

*In a case of divine intervention the Eleven are sighted at Mount Armageddon, the highest point on the island. The eleven deliver a cryptic message which ends the era and leaves the people wondering just what is different in this new age and what the gods' obscure promises meant.
The best answer to the question as to what is up with the Gods, is to seek out answers IG, or upon the boards. :) It is really more of an IG thing, this one is.


In any case, I do see that there is constant attacks upon the island. I just take it as no different than what it would be like on the Mainland. Constant danger, evil things attacking. Even though I have played Illa for a long while now, it still comes off as fresh and new to me. It is a frontier, it does have politics, it has the campfire chats, and the work as well as a constant danger.

What 'atmosphere' is it? I really don't know. The weapons and armor are all back in the olden days style, as is many of the beliefs. On the other hand, Illarion can seem very, very slow at times. Not like, walking to see some one from Greenbriar to Varshikar. But just having to wait for the other person at times. To get anything done IG worthwild, you will need another person. The communication is slow, at times. Gatherings are difficult to have. People expect wild and craziness all the time, and when there isn't they have to find something to do, and if they can't they just leave the game. In a way, that is sad but the slow times are just as important as the fast paced ones. If it was always "Go, go go!" people would feel totally uninvolved because everything happened without them.
User avatar
Nitram
Developer
Posts: 7638
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 am
Contact:

Post by Nitram »

The... well, call it atmosphere of Illarion seems to me like a large stack of parts of everything, bundled together and sold as game.

I'm not speaking about the technical part. I know that part is epic and cool and stuff. :wink: Rather about the roleplaying aspects of the game.

The problem for me is after all that there is really no clearly defined big idea of the game, that leads it in some direction. Basically every player comes into the game with his/her own ideas of course and since there is no big defined idea of the game, the player visions how the game should look like, rip the atmosphere of Illarion ruther apart.
Illarion gets from every current new temporary fashion add something to Illarion. There were this times were vampires and werwolfes poped up. Lately we had the time were characters with cat ears and tales came up. Those things were blocked from the staff, but many now not named things were kept in the game and changed the atmosphere.

It was a misstake of the staff not to limit the ideas the enviroment of Illarion shall move in at the beginning a little tighter. Thats a misstake that can't be undone and leads to the point that Illarion has no real atmosphere.
User avatar
Karrock
Posts: 515
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:11 pm

Post by Karrock »

There are few problems in. First is simplest: why people think that ill is or must be based on darkages ? The centrum of faith and science of those times were belief in one god. That were essence.

Illar should be more ancient than middleage in deeplest structures. In ancient times faith was based on experience not in metaphisic wishing. When one god didn't help then beliefer prayed to another. Secondly faith was not way to get salvation. Ancient's people believe that all deads (greeks) or only richiest (egyptians) or those which helped gods (europeans) could get happy life after death. To be good or evil makes no differences. Faith had other but very important function because it mitigating social unrests or human problems in this life like healing patients or saves from dangerous situations. Centrum of this faith is always human. Group like nation, race or other is second. Primitive tribes were complexed of people which know all others in group, they didn't thinking to helping people which they didn't know, didn't met like it's making in socials like nation or later relligions like christianity. God which didn't helping were forgeting and rejected because... who need god who helps others but not me and mine family - would answer man of those times.

I think players should may get pray system: when char giving foods or others things to god would get faith-points so when he would problem he could pray to god to solution, help from god (gamemaster) who will helps if he (gm) would want helps.

Edit: Besides GM should pick some players who would be prophets or heroes which make they will, but those players should don't know what is that will. These players would chooses ones. GM would send them instructions like: " go there and say 'god will burn this house of scandal' if you will do that i will burn this house."
Players would think that char must be GM (like in ancient beliaving in that human is god), but he is not.
User avatar
Dyluck
Posts: 2354
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2001 9:32 am
Location: The Future
Contact:

Post by Dyluck »

With the gods, I don't necessarily think that they need to make physical appearances or even personally interfere in the story too much. It's just that the world itself should reflect the personalities of the gods some more, whether it be more items that are god specific, or more temples that have unique architecture (Elara->bookshelves / Cherga->tombstones / Malachin->swords / Irmorom->rocks and anvils, etc), or common verbal cultures where certain races or religions have popular quotes like "What in the name of Irmorom's hairy (insert body part) is that!?" or some common warcry that Malachin or Moshran followers utter before or after a battle. GMs don't even have to really play the gods themselves or anything, but since there's a religious calendar they can perhaps initiate monthly festivals for each god until they become tradition. The website itself could be a little more promotional for the gods too. For example each page could have a random quote by one of the gods like "Drink and feast to your heart's content my mortal friends, for unlike me, you will not live in the realm of worldly delights forever -Adron". Of course, since I don't play, I don't know if some of these things are already there, but if they are, as I said, they could stand to be more transparent on the website or on the rpg boards or something, so that "outsiders" can feel the atmosphere too and want to join in.
User avatar
Juliana D'cheyne
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:14 am
Contact:

Post by Juliana D'cheyne »

Since one of my chars had a worshipper of Bragon visit her, I would say the gods are still represented ig. I don't think of Illarion as medieval in the exact sense that those times entailed... and would prefer it NOT to be exact, yet I DO think of it as a medieval fantasy however I think the vocabulary has fallen/become more modern since I first began to play and I miss that. Politically with the nobles it seems a little more medieval yet I keep waiting for the nobles to exact their territory rules on the land :wink: . The quality and amount of quests lately has been wonderful and IMO has moved Illarion more toward the medieval fantasy then previously, I hope that continues.
User avatar
Nitram
Developer
Posts: 7638
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 am
Contact:

Post by Nitram »

Karrock wrote:First is simplest: why people think that ill is or must be based on darkages ?
Thats the problem I was talking about. Noone can say if the answer on that question is that Illa bases on darkages or not. Because it was never clearly said and declared.
User avatar
Joxia Doral
Posts: 1021
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:26 am
Contact:

Post by Joxia Doral »

Juliana D'cheyne wrote:... Politically with the nobles it seems a little more medieval yet I keep waiting for the nobles to exact their territory rules on the land :wink: ...
because of the mixed feelings many have about the nobles sytem we are gradually working our way in... :wink:

To me Illa has too much modern thinking from many chars....I'd like to see more of a bit of medevial thinking from more players. The atmosphere to me is part modern and part medevial.
User avatar
Ssar'ney
Posts: 92
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:42 pm
Contact:

Post by Ssar'ney »

I don´t think the general atmosphere is close to a medival one, it is too influenced by modern/diablo ways of thinking, like...

nearly everyone is able to read and write and also is expected to be able to do so, people rarely mention the gods or even pray to them, women are considered equal to men (at least one of the main cultures has a different opinion there) , and then there are sheer endless guilds clainming to be super-evil with non-evil organisations doing much moure "cruel" things, every year there is an even more evil threat for the island or the whole world defeated with ease, it is not really common that someone sticks to the background, blablabla...

But there can be found some rather small communities mostly sucessfully trying to play in a "medival-fantasy" way, so the atmosphere heavily depends on who you are playing with. At least that is how I feel.
User avatar
Djironnyma
Posts: 3221
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 4:34 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Post by Djironnyma »

Well in generally i like the noble idea for illa, but these small "lands" and these to much to high titles make laughable for me. I mean - who should be take some Baron serious which "rule" a part grassland, what is so big as our weekend garden *g*
User avatar
Mr. Cromwell
Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: All over the place.

Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Well, I guess the ability to take those things seriously has something to do with thinking and the ability to put things to a context in general.

Firstly: The entire island is actually quite small, with it taking maybe fifteen minutes to walk from one edge of the island to the other. Yet, it has fifteen or so groups and cities, countless races inhabiting it, bi-weekly demon invasions and whatever. The whole starting point is quite miniaturized and unrealistic to begin with.

Secondly. When you compare the land areas claimed by various independent towns and organizations (Varshikar, Greenbriar, Nordmark, Grey Rose.. etc) and compare those with the fiefdoms of the nobles (which are not independent, but rather subdivisions of Trollsbane) the sizes are 1.) quite reasonable and 2.) Actually in some cases, nearly comparable to the landareas of the independent towns.
User avatar
Djironnyma
Posts: 3221
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 4:34 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Post by Djironnyma »

First: yes the iland IS small... why try everyone to make it bigger? Why the hell everything must be big, bombastic and epic? Why the hell so much player cant accept that gobiath is only a sh** of land in the ocean which no one cares about in the rest of the Illarion as plane?

Secound: Well but other citys have ressources, buildings, traders and so on, not only a part land with nothing on it. And other towns dont give such noble titles. Varshikar have only a "leader". Tol Vanima have Elders (which are no leaders only old administrators/advisor's and NO nobles). GB have his Familychef and the Nordmark his Jarl. The grey ordes have her Souvereign, the only real noble on Gobiath, but he rule over a big castle, fields, hunting ground and so on. Indeed there is a "King" of SB but in my eyes King means by dwarfs nothing other as leader. Dwarfs have no idea about other nobles as a king so there cant be a lower title.

You see what i mean? My char (and others i know) lose his respect for nobles in reason of that what TB calls noble. That is the down side of the way as the nobles idea was solved in TB. If there would be only one noble which rule tb with honour and a strong hand, than indeed his title would have worth, but not in this way for my opinion.
User avatar
Avalyon el'Hattarr
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:42 pm
Location: Heaven and Hell
Contact:

Post by Avalyon el'Hattarr »

I dont understand your point Dji.. did you write just for the sake of arguing over something? is it that day of the month, is it?
If I own a piece of land, in the middle of nowhere (as you say) and I decide to build a toilet on that land and call myself King of Toiletpaper, that is my choise, because on my land I can do whatever it pleases me, and while you are there, you'd better call me Your Majesty, or I fill your ass with bullets for trasspassing.
If your argument is that the island is too small for noble titles, then why do we have Kings, Jarls and Souvereigns as you say, since those were titles that ruled over vast lands, not just a piece of land. Why dont you argue at those as well? And if you say that because they are only one, I'll ask you to read Cromwell's post once more.
You want realism, then start mapping the mainland so we can have larger lands to play in.
User avatar
Mr. Cromwell
Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: All over the place.

Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Djironnyma wrote:First: yes the iland IS small... why try everyone to make it bigger? Why the hell everything must be big, bombastic and epic? Why the hell so much player cant accept that gobiath is only a sh** of land in the ocean which no one cares about in the rest of the Illarion as plane?
Well, there you go. What's your problem with less than epic-sized counties then? Act like you preach, man.

I never actually complained about the state of affairs, it was more like a statement of some very obvious facts. You're the one who's first saying that small counties are a problem, and then WAAAA!!?! over the calling the whole island small. Like I guessed: You absolutely cannot put things to any sort of context. I'll spell it out: Small island, 'small' counties. :)

Where's the problem?
Secound: Well but other citys have ressources, buildings, traders and so on, not only a part land with nothing on it. And other towns dont give such noble titles. Varshikar have only a "leader". Tol Vanima have Elders (which are no leaders only old administrators/advisor's and NO nobles). GB have his Familychef and the Nordmark his Jarl. The grey ordes have her Souvereign, the only real noble on Gobiath, but he rule over a big castle, fields, hunting ground and so on. Indeed there is a "King" of SB but in my eyes King means by dwarfs nothing other as leader. Dwarfs have no idea about other nobles as a king so there cant be a lower title.
Trollsbane has resources and crafters too. Blablabla.

The difference is, that resource distribution is a gamemaster thing, designed to create difference and economic variance between various areas in the game (as well as to give specific benefits to different areas). On the other hand, the noble-titles are:
I.) Player created (Thus, no diamond mines anywhere unless there already was one)
II.) Primarily political titles, with only secondary economic function.
III.) New, thus no castles (Which, by the way, get more and more difficult to build.. Maybe you can give an advice how to get one fast to correct the situation, though? ;))
IV.) Let me stress again: The titles are player created. Thus, the players make do what they have instead of asking for mines and resources for themselves.

Your all comparisons have been between independent areas vs. subdivision rulers of TB. You use NPC built houses, GM distributed resources and things built by people who long since have quit the game as a part of your argument. You say that dwarves know now other leader than king, well tough? It's pretty evident that humans do, and thus humans use it. Even the smallest counties are literally thousands and thousands of tiles in size, with the largest ones probably surpassing 10 000 tiles in size. Sure, there are only two noble-owned buildings at this point, but land is still land. Property just as any.

Besides, the Vanima elders must be one of the most genuinely stupid and ridiculous things in this game. That's the real way of eroding any respect for any nobility-system. Yet, they enjoy the economic powers bestowed upon Vanima during its creation.
You see what i mean? My char (and others i know) lose his respect for nobles in reason of that what TB calls noble. That is the down side of the way as the nobles idea was solved in TB. If there would be only one noble which rule tb with honour and a strong hand, than indeed his title would have worth, but not in this way for my opinion.
No. It's because you don't understand the difference between player created political titles for subdivisions of an independent area, as opposed to GM-sponsored (to a degree) leader titles of Independent areas. Period. Full stop.

You're comparing apples with oranges, Kings with Barons. If kings have castles, why do you expect the barons to fit into the same mold? I do see what you mean, though: But since I think your viewpoint is ultimately so flawed and your comparisons flat out ridiculous, I don't really care too much. :)
User avatar
Mr. Cromwell
Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: All over the place.

Post by Mr. Cromwell »

As non-OT:

For me, Illarion feels like a Ancient-Medieval-Wild West-The Enlightenment combination.

Ancient from the pantheon.
Medieval from the technology, certain background/race related things and many IG things (knighthoods, castles, fledging feudalism..), splintered factions and conflicts between the factions.
Wild West from the frontier feeling, chaos, "you better sit with your back against the wall" sentiment, lack of dependable law and order, as well as the attacks against the 'civilized society' by external foes such as demons ("The indians are coming!")
The Enlightenment from certain parts of the background story (Salkamar), and the attitudes of many players which I to a degree believe to influence the very progressive opinions of the characters.
User avatar
Joxia Doral
Posts: 1021
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:26 am
Contact:

Post by Joxia Doral »

Actually Riverside has a 'building' of sorts in it with tools and is finally fixing to be improved upon greatly. many building plans have been beyond our control... just not visble if you are passing through
User avatar
Djironnyma
Posts: 3221
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 4:34 pm
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Post by Djironnyma »

Small island should not mean "Garden-countries" it should men lesser countries - is see absolutely no use in these splitting of TB that is my point.

Trollsbane has resources and crafters too. Blablabla.
Trolls bane, yes, but only a few of the "lands" around ...

If you talk about thousand of tiles i ask me, what do you do in your history lessons? A baron e.g. is not someone which rule about 1000 squaremeter land (to be real our weekend house has 13000 squaremeter land, yeha we are noble!). A baron was a noble who ruled a dozen hectars land and at least one village. So call me how you explain that trolls bane, what is actual only one single little village, have a dozen barons, dukes and so on? That is the point which make absolutely no sense for me.

These "titles" you bring ig have absolutely no worth. Accept it or not, all you reach is making it laughable, you simply total overrate TB by these title giving.
User avatar
Avalyon el'Hattarr
Posts: 1492
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:42 pm
Location: Heaven and Hell
Contact:

Post by Avalyon el'Hattarr »

Clerly you havent read what it was written, or you just refuse to get it though.

First of all, Trolls Bane is not only about the sole city, but also with the lands surrounding it. When split, each side will prove to be at least equal to the other self standing cities. Why it was split?FOIG!

Arg, I hate repeating myself, but I'll explain like to a little child: You are right, a medieval noble ruled over thousand of acres, but if you want realism, begin drawing maps of large lands

If there would be only one noble which rule tb with honour and a strong hand, than indeed his title would have worth....little does he know thats what we are working on.
That already happens, this leader is called "Archduke". The other nobles are his subordinates who have their own subordinates and so on. Where's the problem?
User avatar
Mr. Cromwell
Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: All over the place.

Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Djironnyma wrote:Small island should not mean "Garden-countries" it should men lesser countries - is see absolutely no use in these splitting of TB that is my point.

Trollsbane has resources and crafters too. Blablabla.
Trolls bane, yes, but only a few of the "lands" around ...

If you talk about thousand of tiles i ask me, what do you do in your history lessons? A baron e.g. is not someone which rule about 1000 squaremeter land (to be real our weekend house has 13000 squaremeter land, yeha we are noble!). A baron was a noble who ruled a dozen hectars land and at least one village. So call me how you explain that trolls bane, what is actual only one single little village, have a dozen barons, dukes and so on? That is the point which make absolutely no sense for me.

These "titles" you bring ig have absolutely no worth. Accept it or not, all you reach is making it laughable, you simply total overrate TB by these title giving.
Why do you insist on comparing real life with illarion? You pull that stuff out of your ass, but at the same time completely fail to realize that any 'king' with only twenty subjects would be the laughing stock of the entire world. Whoops, Silverbrand.

You seriously can't put things to context when comparing RL things and the miniature Illa things (or, well with Trollsbane.. otherwise it seems to be fine). Well, let me put it this way, and maybe the clue-train finally visits your stop:
How many buildings does the ruler of silverbrand own?
How many buildings does the Grand Uber Only Noble of the Grey Orders own?
How many buildings the chief of Varshikar owns?
How many buildings the AD of Trollsbane owns?
How many buildings does the Jarl of Nordmark own?
How many villages does any of the aforementioned persons own?

Zero.

Why? Because for all intents and purposes of ownership, the public buildings are in fact owned by the settlement (group ownership) or NPCs of the settlement. King of Silverbrand, Lennier or Vigalf only in fact excercise control over it. However, that's not the same as actual ownership. He's like the CEO or a Prime Minister (if you want to extend things a little).

If you actually knew a damn about history yourself, you would know that it's not really how the world worked.

I mean, a town with like five active citizens? Knighthood of two active knights? Please. Either you apply that standard to everything (thus making "everything" in the game laughable, which actually is a fair point) or you stop making a special case out of the Trollsbane titles.

But I doubt the word "consistency" makes any sense to you either.
User avatar
Kranek
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:57 pm
Location: http://www.acrobatis-pyrum.de.vu
Contact:

Post by Kranek »

@ Cromwell:
In Fact, the Jarl owns 5 buildings: Workshop, Longhouse, Gatehouse, Tavern and Guesthouse.
The lands of Nordmark are property to the Jarl, as he is the leader of his clan (family) who lives on it. Just like your dad and your mum are owners of their house.

*continues to read the thread cause its entertaining*
Last edited by Kranek on Sun May 10, 2009 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Nitram
Developer
Posts: 7638
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 am
Contact:

Post by Nitram »

That topic is not about discussions. Its about the point of view of everyone about the atmosphere of Illarion.

So stick to the purpose of this topic.
User avatar
Kranek
Posts: 986
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 3:57 pm
Location: http://www.acrobatis-pyrum.de.vu
Contact:

Post by Kranek »

Topic-related-post:
The atmosphere in Illarion....kinda hard to define...in NOrdmark, it seems kinda barbaric to me. Drinking beer, singing songs, killing elves...it's cool *g*

In Green Briar: Reminds me of the Shire in lotr. Peaceful...but always some orcs or anything can show up and make trouble.

Bane...well...i cant tell ^^ SOmetimes its real medieval (when i wanted to see a execution) sometimes its kinda newage (guys discussing about human-rights).

To make it short: it totally depends on the POs im playing with!
I try my best to keep a medieval feeling in Nordmark...but its hard to do that sometimes...with guys telling me all living beings are equal etc.

If you want to get to a medieval feeling, try to forget this kind of stuff.
If you want some age of enlightment, just continue *g*

But for me...Illarion is a medieval fantasy-game...so i will play it this way in Nordmark.
Post Reply