How does the "atmosphere" of Illarion feel like?

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Djironnyma
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Post by Djironnyma »

60 silver for equietment? LOL for my jewelry alone i need to pay 700 silver xD
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Deuce wrote:And as for this, warriors have to spend alot of time getting 'good' in able to find these 'great' items...
Collecting resources and Crafting it is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR less entertaining than fighting - also some people max out their fighters very quickly.
--

And don't say mages aren't overpowered.

When 3 Kel Ra Qwans kill you, no matter how much you've trained, whether you're a peasent or matt's character, whether you're wearing magical elven armor or running around in a farmer's hat. THAT'S overpowered.

And I barely PG my own mage, he's still immensly powerful. And I'm not going to talk about the DUN spells.
-

Or the "build a wall, find the necromancer because your cursor changes, then KRQ him to death without getting hurt" trick - or the "FIll the place with fire, then dig up the map" trick.... seriously.
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Joxia Doral
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Post by Joxia Doral »

I tend to agree with the Lama on this. Almost makes a fighter not needed at times. One strong mage could be the only guard TB needs if he could be everywhere at once.
:P

Can the magical weapons be crafted?
Last edited by Joxia Doral on Wed May 27, 2009 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kranek
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Post by Kranek »

#me nods at the Llama
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Joxia Doral wrote:One strong mage could be the only guard TB needs if he could be everywhere at once.
*cough blake cough*
Can the magical weapons be crafted?
Nope.
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Korwin
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Post by Korwin »

Magic Resistance?
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Korwin wrote:Magic Resistance?
Most things which are strong enough to give you magic resistance are strong enough to kill you in 3-5 blows.

So the only way of getting magical resistance is to keep a mage alive, trap him somewhere, go in - lose half your health - go out again.
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Gregory Hardcast
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Post by Gregory Hardcast »

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:Pella, you are lieing!! :o
A mage doesnt need 60 silvers to buy equipment.. a mage needs to beg for 1 year to get his runes and spend a few months to get the usefull ones, then another year to get decent skills..

Before you say, yes, I do play a fighter, a maxed one even. Took me like the msot 2 months to get him like that (could have done it faster too), but it took me more than 1 year to get one 90 mage skill and the others between 50 and 70, so please don't come here saying that mages are overpowered before you actually try to play one :wink:
Get out of here with this stuff dude. We all know how overpowered mages are. There is zero defense against them, and thats the problem.

Anyway, i dont really care about crafters, or the ig economy much. The problem with the atmosphere of this game is that no-one really seems to give a damn. Everyone is only interested in their character, its all one big battle of the egos for the most part, while the rest of us get pushed to the wayside and eventually leave. Get ig, and shake things up, and stop moaning about anvil pging and the level of magical item drops.

:P

Id also like to say that for the most part the Trollsbane government is very disappointing. Theres a lot of potential there, i LOVE the noble system, but it all seems rather.. bland. None of the nobles have done anything which has interested me, while all the secret evil temple folk wander around discussing and comparing their magical gems. Seriously, such a waste. Be creative, you guys could do way more to perk up your reign over the town.
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Joxia Doral
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Post by Joxia Doral »

Gregory Hardcast wrote:
Anyway, i dont really care about crafters, or the ig economy much. The problem with the atmosphere of this game is that no-one really seems to give a damn. Everyone is only interested in their character, its all one big battle of the egos for the most part, while the rest of us get pushed to the wayside and eventually leave. Get ig, and shake things up, and stop moaning about anvil pging and the level of magical item drops.

:P
All of the posters in this topic are pretty much steady commited Illa players who do not quit for a while just because they might feel 'pushed to the side'.
The who feel left to the side are the ones who should be IG...shaking things up.
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Gregory Hardcast
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Post by Gregory Hardcast »

Joxia Doral wrote:
Gregory Hardcast wrote:
Anyway, i dont really care about crafters, or the ig economy much. The problem with the atmosphere of this game is that no-one really seems to give a damn. Everyone is only interested in their character, its all one big battle of the egos for the most part, while the rest of us get pushed to the wayside and eventually leave. Get ig, and shake things up, and stop moaning about anvil pging and the level of magical item drops.

:P
All of the posters in this topic are pretty much steady commited Illa players who do not quit for a while just because they might feel 'pushed to the side'.
The who feel left to the side are the ones who should be IG...shaking things up.
Oh please, when was the last time a player started something really big? Maybe Cromwell? People aren't ambitious enough.
As to that, i am ig and i'm trying damn hard. :o
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Nalzaxx
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Post by Nalzaxx »

People moan when you aren't ambitious.

And people moan when you are.


But it still comes down to the issue of, why should I play to entertain you?
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Nalzaxx wrote:But it still comes down to the issue of, why should I play to entertain you?
Because otherwise I won't give you any tips.
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Gregory Hardcast
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Post by Gregory Hardcast »

Nalzaxx wrote:People moan when you aren't ambitious.

And people moan when you are.


But it still comes down to the issue of, why should I play to entertain you?
Because roleplay is boring on your own. :wink:
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Deuce
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Post by Deuce »

Gregory Hardcast wrote:
Joxia Doral wrote:
Gregory Hardcast wrote:
Anyway, i dont really care about crafters, or the ig economy much. The problem with the atmosphere of this game is that no-one really seems to give a damn. Everyone is only interested in their character, its all one big battle of the egos for the most part, while the rest of us get pushed to the wayside and eventually leave. Get ig, and shake things up, and stop moaning about anvil pging and the level of magical item drops.

:P
All of the posters in this topic are pretty much steady commited Illa players who do not quit for a while just because they might feel 'pushed to the side'.
The who feel left to the side are the ones who should be IG...shaking things up.
Oh please, when was the last time a player started something really big? Maybe Cromwell? People aren't ambitious enough.
As to that, i am ig and i'm trying damn hard. :o
Deuce was pretty ambitious, I remember Deuce got mentioned on the forums like everyday for a while. But then he was ambitious in a crazy psychopathic kind of way...

BUT THATS THE WAY TO BE!!
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Nalzaxx
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Post by Nalzaxx »

Gregory Hardcast wrote:
Nalzaxx wrote:People moan when you aren't ambitious.

And people moan when you are.


But it still comes down to the issue of, why should I play to entertain you?
Because roleplay is boring on your own. :wink:
I readily concede that we should all play to entertain each other.

It is just it seems a very one sided relationship the majority of the time.
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Joxia Doral
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Post by Joxia Doral »

Mkay I think we may done here...looks like its about to spin off in another direction... :D
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Mr. Cromwell
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Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Ps. Just to badmouth the crafters to my heart's content:

TAILORS ARE THE WORST. IF YOU ARE A TAILOR, YOU ARE THE WORST. PERIOD.

..I looked for a tailor for several days before giving up. Everyone I managed to find was able to craft "bad, old towel" max. WTH? Doesn't any tailor in illa have skills nor business sense? Why the hell does ed have to run around seeking you whiny scumbuckets anyhow? If you can make good quality clothes, then make yourselves available PLEASE.. instead of whining how nobody buys anything..

And yeah, mages are overpowered against NPC's. You also might need to breathe every once a while. Now please divulge some information which everyone doesn't know already.. :roll:

PS@Llama:
I always found mining to be more fun and entertaining past-time than killing some gnolls or whatever..
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Mr. Cromwell wrote:..I looked for a tailor for several days before giving up.
You should have either posted on the trading board - or dug up the old "OceanSide Trading" post. Or well, the best trader I know moved to Vanima.
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Mr. Cromwell
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Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
Mr. Cromwell wrote:..I looked for a tailor for several days before giving up.
You should have either posted on the trading board - or dug up the old "OceanSide Trading" post. Or well, the best trader I know moved to Vanima.
..And this sort of reply further underlines the point I made before. It's not really the lack of customers, it's the shoddy or nonexistant saleswork and effort. :) I know that people like to badmouth chars like Chester and Dusty when it comes to crafting, but at least they were trying to sell their things constantly, contrary to most people who make stuff it seems.

This is most evident with people like tailors. Sorry Hadrian, but my char actually -doesn't need- tailored goods at the moment. However, he'd still be willing to order those to a certain degree, if the quality is good enough (top notch). Swords are substience goods for warriors, but any rag will do to most people for clothing. This is what the tailors should actually try to understand and function accordingly: When your goods are extra or luxury, you need to put some effort into selling them, because the goods don't sell themselves, certainly not if you guys make all the potential customers chase you around the island with cats and dogs. When people buy luxury or extra, then I guess most (myself included) want it to be effortless, instead of some dumbass game of hide and seek. :/

Now, if there's a player of a dedicated tailor char here who's 1.) capable of producing very high quality stuff and 2.) still struggling to sell it, I'll help out ooc in formulation of a sales strategy for that (1) person, on the condition that he/she tells me how the selling goes then. :wink: This arrangement because I'm quite curious if what I have in my mind shall work or not. :P
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Velisai
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Post by Velisai »

TAILORS ARE THE WORST. IF YOU ARE A TAILOR, YOU ARE THE WORST. PERIOD.

..I looked for a tailor for several days before giving up. Everyone I managed to find was able to craft "bad, old towel" max. WTH? Doesn't any tailor in illa have skills nor business sense? Why the hell does ed have to run around seeking you whiny scumbuckets anyhow? If you can make good quality clothes, then make yourselves available PLEASE.. instead of whining how nobody buys anything..
Do you have any idea how expensive it is to learn tailoring? My char HAS to fight for an hour just to cover the cost of ten minutes of tailoring. It's ridiculous that for example a shirt yields 4 coppers, but costs you 6 coppers in thread alone, failure not included, neither are tools, time spent working or the resources she produces herself.

Also, don't tell me I don't try enough to sell my stuff. Will you buy any clothing below excellent/new quality? Will you buy leather armor of even lower quality when you can find better pieces on dead trolls?

My char is so much better at killing(despite only having mediocre fighting attributes) than tailoring(at 18 dex) by now, that she is financially better off slaying some trolls or goblin hunters than crafting the same armor they drop.

You want excellent quality and a master crafter at your disposal at all times? Then pay for the crafter's education and time.
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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

Can we switch back from the "this game has problem ABC" to "this is what I'd like to see in order to support / enhance the atmosphere"? Thanks! The latter is much more helpful, you know.
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Post by Damien »

The only thing that can really help with the atmosphere is a strict plan with at least the following points in it :

1. Increase general Roleplay understanding : Organize player groups to learn roleplaying basics (character separation, tell them that things that happen to a character are not happening to the player, think into chars instead of making chars act like the player would, give the idea that a character does not need to be uber evil to be "cool" etc.)

2. Newbie guides : Organize player groups to meet newbies on the newbie island to help / roleplay with them -> create a newbie guide team that takes shifts

3. Strict watch : Hire some more seers that actively watch (especially)newbies and other players. Enforce roleplaying in a more strict manner ingame. Take players out to talk with them (GM castle or likewise places) if they misbehave.
Don't be too soft ("omg we could loose a player if we ban him !"): If you have to talk to new guys more than three times about the same crap, ban them. If they logout when you try talking to them, ban the account (else they'll just keep making new characters until they get through with it). Remember that one really bad or immature player WILL scare away MORE than just one good or mature players.

Additional option : Let everyone Play on the newbie island without limitations (or even another, very open island between newbie island and main map). Make players do an RP test / Application before they can travel to the main map.
This way, you'll have an "open" place where even non-Roleplayers can play, but at the same time you ensure roleplaying and atmosphere in the other areas.
==> If you can seperate the roleplayers from the do-not-want-RP-gamers, you will be able to attract both types of groups without them scaring each other away. Thus, much more players AND much better RP atmosphere.
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Post by Llama »

Damien wrote:3. Strict watch : Hire some more seers that actively watch (especially)newbies and other players. Enforce roleplaying in a more strict manner ingame. Take players out to talk with them (GM castle or likewise places) if they misbehave.
We have a ton of GMs. I think this is a very good idea.

The Newbie-RP island isn't such a good idea in my opinion. If players want to start playing immediatly, and already have gotten a taste of the mechanics with newbie island, they wouldn't want to stay waiting until someone logs on to teleport them.
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Post by Damien »

You misunderstood that, you either read too fast or i wrote too complicated.
Application = Name check + database, website, questions thingy or even a story thing.
And if they can play in some playable before-roleplay-is-enforced- place, they can indeed play until their request is processed.
With such a thing, they could play in an open place where everyone can play, but the rest of the map would be restricted for people who passed some RP test.
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Gregory Hardcast
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Post by Gregory Hardcast »

Damien wrote:The only thing that can really help with the atmosphere is a strict plan with at least the following points in it :

1. Increase general Roleplay understanding : Organize player groups to learn roleplaying basics (character separation, tell them that things that happen to a character are not happening to the player, think into chars instead of making chars act like the player would, give the idea that a character does not need to be uber evil to be "cool" etc.)

2. Newbie guides : Organize player groups to meet newbies on the newbie island to help / roleplay with them -> create a newbie guide team that takes shifts

3. Strict watch : Hire some more seers that actively watch (especially)newbies and other players. Enforce roleplaying in a more strict manner ingame. Take players out to talk with them (GM castle or likewise places) if they misbehave.
Don't be too soft ("omg we could loose a player if we ban him !"): If you have to talk to new guys more than three times about the same crap, ban them. If they logout when you try talking to them, ban the account (else they'll just keep making new characters until they get through with it). Remember that one really bad or immature player WILL scare away MORE than just one good or mature players.

Additional option : Let everyone Play on the newbie island without limitations (or even another, very open island between newbie island and main map). Make players do an RP test / Application before they can travel to the main map.
This way, you'll have an "open" place where even non-Roleplayers can play, but at the same time you ensure roleplaying and atmosphere in the other areas.
==> If you can seperate the roleplayers from the do-not-want-RP-gamers, you will be able to attract both types of groups without them scaring each other away. Thus, much more players AND much better RP atmosphere.
Hey i like this! Being allowed on newbie island would be fun. The problem is, i think only 1/10 new players have a chance of deciding to stay, no matter what you do, so its a lot of work with little physical results. Helping new players who are just taking the piss is kinda disheartening.
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Post by Damien »

It is, but see the opposite. If you name your guide character - if the staff allows that - "Guide Gregory Hardcast", for example, you have a second char and still the same name - means the newbies you welcomed will recognize you ingame, if you want that.
Could be an option to make a lot new ingame-friends, and teaching them RP or just guiding them around.
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Post by Nalzaxx »

I think the answer lies somewhere outside of "Make it more elitist".

The devs have expressed time and time again that they want to see more players ingame, more players enjoying their hard work, and more players contributing to the game. By making things stricter you only remove what little players we have arriving here. We tried the application system and found that it didnt work, so it was disabled. Bringing it back isnt going to magically solve the 'atmosphere' problems we have ingame.

I think its a widely held opinion that there was more atmosphere 'back in the day' but back in the day it was even less strict than it is now. People were generally more tolerant and the roleplay flourished as a result. The answer is not to ban people who are slow to take up roleplaying, but to encourage those people to take it up faster. What I would suggest is improving the roleplaying tools at our disposal, make roleplaying have a definate and real contribution to the ingame world besides who runs what town or fulfills what role.

Things like customising equipment, writing books and player buildings are a great way of encouraging this. However they do need to be more available to the everyday player.

As an example I will illustrate one of the more atmospheric moments I have had ingame:
My character decided to go for a little adventure to find some monsters ot kill and generall explore a little more of the island. Instead of autowalking down I decided to take it at a more leisurely pace, went and rented myself a mule, bought a hatchet and a fishing rod and took a scenic route. When I reached a suitable destination I tied my mule to a tree so he could graze on a patch of grass and cut a few trees to make a campfire. With my little camp set up I went into the forest to fight some baddies for awhile and, upon having my fill returned to camp where I relit the fire, stashed my earnings away in the mule and sat on the bank fishing while the sun setted. After awhile someone I knew also happened down past the area and decided to sit with me at my camp while we chatted for awhile. He decided to go fight some baddies of his own and I stayed at camp updating my journal.
The point of this rather rambling story is not that I am an amazing roleplayer, but rather that by using the props I had ingame I could enhance the experience I was having and make it truly atmospheric. The mule provided an excellent makeshift camp, the campfire a useful, yet aesthetic light source and the fishing rod something to pass the time while providing food I needed.

Why doesn't everyone play like this? And indeed why do I only play like this some of the time?

The answer is that it is expensive and incredibly inconvenient. My fishing line broke, my mule disappeared and the fish I was getting I couldnt even cook anyway. My journal served no purpose as I couldnt write in it anyway and it would have been easier just to teleport down, smack some stuff and teleport back. People have very little reason to make such elaborate setups because its a setback for them. Roleplay shouldnt disadvantage you, it should entertain you and so I think the way forward is to make roleplaying more accessable.

It really boils down to whether you want to focus development onto a more balanced, sophisticated setup where skills and abilities dictate roles or whether you want to steer towards giving people the tools they need to play their role more eloquently. People roleplayed lots more back in the day because they didnt need to skill as much and didnt need to invest so much time and resources into getting into a position where having a mule dissappear doesn't matter for squat.

Its a rather disgraceful system, but I am sure I am not alone in the mentality of having to skill a character before you can roleplay with them. Its taken me around 6 months of pretty dedicated and constant playing to get to a position where I am free to amble around at will and roleplay freely, without worrying about having to skill this or collect that.

Sure I could play a peasent beggar right from the bat with no skills, but who wants to play that? I want to play an adventuring wizard discovering the deepest secrets of the land, or a master smith tinkering with the finest quality swords or an eccentric druid toiling over his cauldron of potions. And for that I need skills, and the best way to get them is to skrew the atmosphere and just go for it.


Of course neither solution is an ideal one, we want to progress towards a more sophisticated and balanced system that at the same time promotes roleplaying and atmosphere. How we do that is a matter of debate, but perhaps by making the process by which those skills is gained more atmospheric and encouraging to roleplay would be a good start.

It isnt that people can't roleplay, or even that they dont want to. Its just that they can't afford to without being left behind.
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maryday
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Post by maryday »

[/sarcasm]
Though i have pretty well understood the core of your conclusion i`d like you to redefine this final, seemingly very important, statement,
maybe because it`s not my native language.
Nalzaxx wrote:Its just that they can't afford to without being left behind.
((I will not answer.))
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Kundra
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Post by Kundra »

maryday wrote:[/sarcasm]
Though i have pretty well understood the core of your conclusion i`d like you to redefine this final, seemingly very important, statement,
maybe because it`s not my native language.
Nalzaxx wrote:Its just that they can't afford to without being left behind.
((I will not answer.))
Sarcamstances seem financial
Even if you werent harsh tho
If I was a leather baker
I would try and not to fake her

6x6=123345

If I show you from the grease in the callum sense 'us'.

Show me the money.
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