How does the "atmosphere" of Illarion feel like?

Olive · Post by **Olive** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:52 pm

I dont make proposals because when i do they are ignored, and when i have somebody post them up under their forum acocunt they get responded to

you do the math

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:54 pm

Lets say Mr Alpha is the guard. He would tell Mr Y why he isnt allowed to use the anvil and instead of kicking his butt, Alpha helps Y to become member of Bane....easy, aint it?

Thank you kranek, spared me a post on the forum..

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:54 pm

I think being told that you're not allowed to use an ANVIL unless you're a citizen of a town would totally ruin casual gamers. If I'm a new player I want to have fun for the first few days, if I don't want to get into politics the first few hours then seriously.

Trollsbane should always be free for everyone. Its a new player's lifeline

Also, if I'm a crafter of a town which doesn't have that tool yet, what am I supposed to do? Leave my old town, become a citizen, use the tool to earn money and leave again?

Seriously, no.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:19 pm

That is a tottaly IG matter.. as SIlverbrand decides to keep their gates locked and not allow anyone in, why wouldnt Bane and every other town do the same?

There are always people arround that are able and willing to help a new person, be it with a few tips or by pointing him in the right direction. People are ment to roleplay and learn about the game by roleplaying.. I tell you that if a new guy comes and the first thing he wants to do is see how good the crafting system is lest he leaves, then read my words... he'll leave no matter what they'll see in the game and go play Counter Strike or what else they are usually playing.

Each town having their own locked tools makes perfect sense to me and I see it as pretty much the only solution to boost trade and put the base of a nice economy.
I mean, look at it.. we have a town full of people that dont belong there.. halflings that must have been in greenbriar, orcs, lizards, even dwarfs sometimes.. they all hang arround the workshop when their towns are empty.

Dont be so hasty to dismiss an idea without giving it much thought first.. you think that newbs will be compelled to leave because they cant test our smithing? fine, give them keys in their starting pack that would last them for X days before they rot away.

And also.. look at varshikar.. you dont have to be a citizen, but you need a "license" to mine and use their workshop (correct?).. so why wouldnt your char pay for the priviledge to use the town's functions? the town is not run by God, it's a state institution which requires money to be mentained. But like I said, that is a compleatly IG matter, no need to argue about it here.. I just broght it as a general idea.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:36 pm

While its a totally IG matter, I think it is beneficial for the game, and for new players - that there is always a guaranteed place for them to stay which is perfectally safe and functional.

Trollsbane is the apparent place which I described above. If the GMs want to create a patch of land in an empty place, give it all the tools and resources and make it avaliable for everyone to use freely, then yes TB can close its gates, throw away the key ect.

However for a proper game-play enviroment, people who want to just play without getting into politics should, people who have 'radical' characters (like those who dislike nobility) should still be able to play their role as an effective character; and everyone needs a place to fall back to.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:46 pm

Thats why there are more than one town.. The whole idea was to somehow make people use other towns as well, not all croud in bane and let the other settlements be deserted.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:52 pm

I just logged on. This is a brand new game. I've decided that I like being a smith.

We're trying to ease the transition for new players.

If they want to be a smith they should be able to grab a hammer and start not.

1) Discover you need a key to open the workshop
[[Give up]]
2) Talk to someone and discover that you need to talk to a person who leads the town
3) Look for person who leads the town
[[Give up]]
4) Start mixing with illarion politics and/or pay some sort of money to be able to use the items
[[Give up]]
5) Smith!

People have a tendancy to start in trollsbane. There are many towns but none are

((Open to all players) ^ (Have most resources in vicinity) ^ (Have all the tools) ) V (Are regularly populated)

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:00 pm

I agree with you man, but that olny keeps our problem constant.. we can't have other settlelments populated if everyone just stays in bane..

Kranek · Post by **Kranek** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:01 pm

2a) The person you talks with lets you in, speaking with you, becoming your friend.
He can show you where to get iron, where to buy handles etc. you NEED other players...

And sry dude...but anyone who leaves this game cause he has to TALK to someone...wouldnt even fit in!

We dont want silent soloplayers, smithing the whole day alone.

As a suggestion: give every citizen the right to allow another person to use the tools under supervision

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:04 pm

You're going around this the wrong way.

Instead of IRRITATING people which use trollsbane, give a bonus to people for NOT congregating in trollsbane.

You attract more flies with honey than with vinegar (or something like that)

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:10 pm

As it is, Trolls bane has it all.. there is absolutely no reason for me, as a crafter, to go craft in the middle of nowhere just becauset hat 'nowhere' is called home.
You say that we should give them a bonus? well, then we must think of something that can compete with the fact that you have a mine next to you, each and every tool, trees, pigs, water for fish, loads of people to interact with.. Like I said earlier, I wouldnt leave Bane for a mere +crafting

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:13 pm

I think a bonus for crafting in other towns and/or more enemies in the vicinity of other towns which aren't trollsbane - coupled with free, fast and/or easy transportation including ones while carrying a lot of stuff - will be the solution.

Then again if we cement TB over we'll have most of the problems solved.

Kranek · Post by **Kranek** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:15 pm

Make it impossible to produce highend products with the free tools!
Newbie can make their daggers, bread etc in Bane...but if they want to smith a Waraxe, cook some really good meal or anything like that, they need better statictools provided by guilds and settlements!

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:17 pm

Ah, I love this..
Make it that the newb can smith only the simple stuff on the free tools so when he wants to get better, he'll have to find a nice guild.. (supposely that by now, the newb is not a newb anymore, and his ability and interest to interact with people went higher)

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:20 pm

. . .

Its the current staff/dev policy that there's no 'mali' but a lot of 'boni'

So stuff like 'nerf smithing in trollsbane' will never get accepted but 'give bonus to smithing if you build a mega-awesome castle out of cheese' would have a chance

Joxia Doral · Post by **Joxia Doral** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:30 pm

Kranek wrote:Make it impossible to produce highend products with the free tools!
Newbie can make their daggers, bread etc in Bane...but if they want to smith a Waraxe, cook some really good meal or anything like that, they need better statictools provided by guilds and settlements!

WAIT...and make it so Bane cannot produce highend stuff? no.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:33 pm

They will, with the 'speial' locked tools.. lol

Joxia Doral · Post by **Joxia Doral** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:37 pm

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:They will, with the 'speial' locked tools.. lol

*goes looking for the money tree* LOL

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:37 pm

Why not just create a Plaza in a flat area of land, embellish it with all the resources needed and stuff give it farmland, nothing more nothing less - and some of those static tools which Kran mentioned - and bob's your uncle, everyone's happy.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:39 pm

Because all people will go there and the other settelments will STILL be deserted?

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:01 pm

Even though the original topic is a totally different one, all these thoughts are valid and valuable!

I want to toss in another approach. I read "TB is the place to be because it has it all". Well, that's not that bad in first place, isn't it? Now, one could give all towns and settlements everything needed to craft, loot and grind, but do you think this will create a reason to settle somewhere and interact with other groups?

Now, think about the following: In case every town "has it all" for e.g. tailors and the next town "has it all" for blacksmiths, wouldn't that be great? Currently, most towns lack a clear profile. Let us think about methods to give a town a clear profile, so that you can do a couple of crafts there, but still, have to interact with other towns so you e.g. need to get the handles for swords there while having everything you need for smithing at home.

There are some fancy bonus-thingy-ideas in this thread, once again, I don't think they are the answer. I don't want to turn down anything, but sometimes, I think more simple solutions than a big system of technical can be found.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:17 pm

Sounds pretty cool, but if I wanna make a human smith per example, then I'm doomed, because I suppose that only dwarfs will have anvils and forges.

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:43 pm

All things have to be reached kinda somewhere, else you'll take out the possibility to play a certain craft for all races except those you gave the items to.
Make changes that increase the playing fun, not such that increase frustrations.

The basic thought of locking a town to populate others is in the interest or RP, but i fear that when the island lacks an "open-for-all"-spot it will also increase new player's frustration levels to new heights.

If you lock down the only "open-for-all" town, then you need to balance it out and give every town all basic concept things and lock them down as well.

Additionally, since the other settlements have bought everything, and a town like Troll's Bane, who has everything without the owners of the place having paid anything for it (since they "took" the place from public, kinda) it would be much fairer to let them pay for their ressources as the other settlements did. Not that this would be a huge problem since the income of Troll's Bane is the biggest of all towns.
Additionally,if Troll's Bane or its ressources are locked, it's income will decrease drastically as well, so that would be a bit "fairer" to all settlements.

Anyhow, troll's bane was usually intended to have a kinda open government that changes over time, so players can have political contest like elections and so on. Since that's no longer fulfilled, the "owners" of TB do have gained a huge ingame advantage at the cost of players who don't want to "belong" anywhere special. Therefore, a new independent settlement would be necessary. The "new" independent place would then need an NPC mayor though, to make sure that no player group can ever take it over and lock its ressources down.
-> side thought : one could have the TB NPCs "move" there, fleeing from the oppressive leadership

But in my opinion, it's a bad idea to make another town on the map.

Kranek · Post by **Kranek** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:05 pm

@Damien....no new town...just destroy the PO-Government and make TB totally NPC(GM) controlled! Atm its almost impossible to raise voice against TB, the dwarves just learned that lesson. Why? Almost every new player comes to TB, and most join TB...which makes TB stronger...the other settlements have almost zero possibilitys to gain strenght...may it be via weapons or trade...

1d20 · Post by **1d20** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:07 pm

Throwing an idea out there;

You know how us magic teachers can still teach magic outside of teaching rooms but to the expense of skill?

How about, if you smith in Goldburg, you get extra skills/points/quality/whatever.

If you farm in the Union, you get extra skill/points/quality/whatever.

If you fish in Zzyathis,

If you mine in Silverbrand,

If you cook in Greenbriar,

etc.

Troll's Bane can be the center-point, neutralest area.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:27 pm

That's not very fair -

Smithing is VERY IMPORTANT while fishing/farming is easy to skill up and much less profitable.

1d20 · Post by **1d20** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:30 pm

It was an idea, Hadrian.

Tinya · Post by **Tinya** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:31 pm

MoonDust wrote:Throwing an idea out there;

You know how us magic teachers can still teach magic outside of teaching rooms but to the expense of skill?

How about, if you smith in Goldburg, you get extra skills/points/quality/whatever.

If you farm in the Union, you get extra skill/points/quality/whatever.

If you fish in Zzyathis,

If you mine in Silverbrand,

If you cook in Greenbriar,

etc.

Troll's Bane can be the center-point, neutralest area.

If nothing is taken away but only added it is good. Right now some new players complain about the long time to develope any skills or higher end products in the crafting system. Anything that makes it that much harder, or irritating won't help. Adding to it however can't harm.

Avalyon el'Hattarr · Post by **Avalyon el'Hattarr** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:05 pm

Ok ok, we deviated from the subject here.. the main problem which was discussed is that fact that there is virtually no trade in the game and this is understandable.. why would I go in the middle of nowhere where my guildhouse is, or even in another town than Bane, when I have all that I need here, under my nose, for free? As long as this isnt delt with, in a way or another, the Illarion economy will be non-existant.

So we have our problem, a problem with many solutions.. One of these is somehow "binding" people to their RP settelments, other is somehow motivate them to practice their trade in those locations.

Now you come up with ideas for those or new solutions..

Harald Hradradr · Post by **Harald Hradradr** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:14 pm

Most problems sem to arise because things are 'free'. What I mean is, you can go to Trolls Bane and pick up any craft not paying a damn for the tools you need and this is actually possible because these static tools do not 'use up'. The town generates taxes out of thin air! How about that: Have a certain amount of coin to upkeep all these static tools and at the same time stop giving the towns money for free....