Food (Why cooks never get a profit)

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pharse
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Post by pharse »

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
pharse wrote:Simple: centralizing food consumption, making it dependant on the diet value. High diet value = low food consumption.

Voila.
Problem is, there's a natural affinity to want to fill things ;)

So if you make the foodbar 10 times larger, people will still try to fill it up. ;)
Seriously, what you oppose can't be solved in any way that has been suggested here. In the end there will always be on the one hand an almost filled foodbar and on the other hand the high quality yet expensive and quite filling dishes.

No stamina value, lowering overall food consumption or changes at the diet system could solve this problem of the human mind.

One had to save the "wasted" food points. But again: seriously, somewhere has to be a limit. Our limit is 60000. Live with it.
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ogerawa
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Post by ogerawa »

Instead of making the limit higher than 60000, how about lowering all the others? For example, apple instead of filling 1000 it fills only 100. Working per action instead of 100, it's lowered to 10. In a way it's the same, just that we have a "longer" food bar. If this is what's wanted. Of course there will be quite lots of adjustments need to be done such as healing and mana regeneration, since those eats the food bar as well.

By doing so, we have a "longer" food bar, but we still consumes at same speed. Although i kind of doubt it will help much... I like the idea of less consuming with higher diet though ^^
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Taking a few ideas from Athian...

Change the code so that food consumption per action = [constant] * hunger value.

'Hunger value' will always be less than 1.

'Hunger value' depends on the food that you ate recently. More expensive food will decrease it, while cheaper food will make it increase (but never over 1).

The Hunger value automatically (in say 30 RL minutes) drains to 1 whatever you do.

So what basically this does is: If you eat better food, not only do you get more filled, but you also use less food to work than if you eat cheaper food. That way everyone's happy - except the poor guy who has to balance it out, ah well :P
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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

Oger's approach is, for me, the 2nd most reasonable in this entire topic. Due to technical restrictions, we cannot apply a factor of ten, five would be the maximum. But do we really want this?

600 apples to fill the food bar. 6000 actions without eating. Sure, the ratios remain like they are, but when I have a low food bar and I eat a venison dish, I exspect that my foodbar goes up a lot - and not by 6%, meaning, some millimeters on my screen.

I still think we don't need to reinvent the wheel to strengthen the position of cooks. One can think about "realistic" changes to the game, but not for the sake of balancing things. Balancing is done best with taking the current state and adjusting the values, but not by yet another new script that will be inbalanced by default.

For me, a simple tweak in food consumption of crafting actions might already solve 90% of the named problems, with 10% the effort of other options ;-).
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Is is possible to scale it with skill?

Earlier levels you barely need anything to level up and skill. Later levels you need a ton of resources and actions -> hunger.
Eadgar
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Post by Eadgar »

Perhaps someone should form a cooking guild, and delegate/specialise people in the manner of the old guilds:

Certain persons cook
Certain persons bake
Certain persons gather ingredients
Certain persons process ingredients

That's how the real world fixed things to cope with such a high demand. I see no reason as to why a cook should also have to hunt/gather the things he needs to cook with.

Then again, things may have been worked out this way, and I've just not been IG enough to see it.
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Eadgar wrote:That's how the real world fixed things to cope with such a high demand.
I underlined the problem - what demand? ;)
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Lrmy
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Post by Lrmy »

I don't really see the food thing as such a problem. If there were more cooks around in game, I would buy more food. But frankly I can't find cooks in game that often. As a result I end up buying seven silvers and fifty coppers worth of food about every two and a half hours of doing things in game(things that lower my food bar). I also like the fact that keeping a good diet is expensive. It makes sense. Spend more money, get more rewards. It helps with that problem of people hording money.
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Lrmy wrote:I also like the fact that keeping a good diet is expensive. It makes sense. Spend more money, get more rewards. It helps with that problem of people hording money.
That's the problem though.

If I spent all my character's life eating crappy foods, and now I found some cash, the amount of money I'd need to spend to get a reward is VERY much - so I won't bother.

Similarly, if I have some extra cash in my pockets, there's no use in buying food, why bother, I won't be able to follow through.

I had made a nice suggestion to solve all this, unfortunatly it was shot down.
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Dangron
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Post by Dangron »

If cooks want to earn money, they need to work a bit. Yesterday I RPed pushing trolley full of food through Troll's Bane, and sold most of it earning around 18 silver.
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Jason Felarion
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Post by Jason Felarion »

Dangron wrote:If cooks want to earn money, they need to work a bit. Yesterday I RPed pushing trolley full of food through Troll's Bane, and sold most of it earning around 18 silver.
Lucky boy, thats, what its all about. You need to work hard for earning coins with food. And of course you need to present your product right. The main problem isn't that nobody sells food. The problem is, there are to many cooks they are known by the others. I wouldn't run through the city and cry "I WANNA FOOD, GIMME GIMME GIMME", or talking to every char like a baggar "Do you have some food?" If you are a cook, present your wares and make it obviously, that you sell food (trade-board, rpg-board "new cook in town" or "new meals in stock"). Not a single cook char who's playing right willl become to poor and you can sell definitly all of his wares, because there are a lot of hungry chars out there. If I remember right, my best day was around 200 silvers for selling food, so there isn't a problem for cooks I guess.

The other fact that a cook or a baker needs to collect all his ingredients for thereself is right, and thats maybe one of the facts, why such a small amount of cooks are around. The time you need for planting, cooking and the time for cooking makes the foods to expensive for the people if you think of time-use-relation for you and cost-use-relation for the customer. You need to raise the prices so you can have a "normal" hour-salary, but then the people prefer to eat apples. If you sell your food to low prices and collect the ingredients for yourself, I think nobody will play a cooking char for a long time.
A cooking guild isn't really needed for that, because there is a farmers union and they should be able to deliver the cooks on Gobaith with ingredients, but they don't look like they want to earn coins, a new fisher guild or enough people who sell you fish, but less hunting-chars who deliver you with big amounts of meat, thats right. The oeconomic system in Gobaith must raise, not only single cities.
The fact that I had have single orders about 100 rabbitplates or some like that, and I need to hunt the 100 rabbits and plant the vegetables for myself... sometimes make the plates for myself, because no carpenter char see the use of plates, so need to cut trees... (yeah, you can buy plates from NPCs but that isn't the target of an RP-Game, isnt it?), was the main reason for the decreasing fun by me, so I took a break and change the story of my char for having more fun and less cooking work... Coins aren't really needed in this game with less oeconomic-based systems and when, then you have thousand other ways to earn coins faster and more comfortable. Cook is maybe the hardest profession in this game, except the bards and priests without a real system beyond.
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Achae Eanstray
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Post by Achae Eanstray »

Sorry, but if you think a cook is the hardest profession to earn coin, try tailor, lumberjack, miner, glassblower among others. I think cooks can earn coin if desired and some depends on time in game which is actually relative to all professions including fighters. I thoroughly agree however with some above, it makes no sense to spend just a "little" coin on some "good" food if you want a quick up in con because it takes forever to get it. Your char might as well continue to eat apples and chance the con they have. Being unable to find a cook for two weeks, my char simply buys from the NPC now..and being quoted the same price as an NPC for the "good" dishes didn't help. She also found that one particular dish she bought and was offered to sell to her didn't raise the con, in other words was the same as eating apples. This doesn't help the ig economy either. IMO all cooked dishes that are sold should have at least a little benefit right away, the harder to make, the more benefit. This should quickly drop again when not eating the right foods.

Most of this however affects fighters (con) yet it would hurt for food to also affect other chars i.e. even crafters. Possible helping to temporarily raise dex *shrugs*
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Jason Felarion
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Post by Jason Felarion »

Achae Eanstray wrote:Sorry, but if you think a cook is the hardest profession to earn coin, try tailor, lumberjack, miner, glassblower among others.
Sorry for my unclear post... I don't mean cook is one of the hardest professions IG to get coins, I mean its one of the hardest because the huge workscope. So I mean more the psychological process by the RL-player (lot of different work, only to finish one meal - hunting, planting, carpenting, cooking).

A miner always mines, a lumberjack is always lumberjacking... Every profession is annoying if you need to spend the most of the time for work and loose time for RP (sure you can while working but... 'click, click..."Yes"...click, click... "*nods*"...click, click... isn't the best RP I guess ;))

But of course better benefits for consuming cooking-food would help to increase the amount of cooks who do this commercial.

Whatever, my 2 cents
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Achae Eanstray wrote:Sorry, but if you think a cook is the hardest profession to earn coin, try tailor, lumberjack, miner, glassblower among others.
Actually a miner could get quite a bit of coin ... a lot in fact. Never found a decent miner :( Except for Pellandria.
Most of this however affects fighters (con) yet it would hurt for food to also affect other chars i.e. even crafters. Possible helping to temporarily raise dex *shrugs*
My suggestion had been to allow food to multiply the food bar depending on how hard it was to make. So if you eat a certain amount of good food, your food bar will go down half as slow for the next hour. So if you happen to be a fighter, or miner, you can carry less food and .: carry more loot.
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Achae Eanstray
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Post by Achae Eanstray »

So if you eat a certain amount of good food, your food bar will go down half as slow for the next hour.
This in place of con? I like the idea not being a miner yet would be nice not to throw away some of your loot. However, wouldn't the donkey negate this for miners?
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

Achae Eanstray wrote:
So if you eat a certain amount of good food, your food bar will go down half as slow for the next hour.
This in place of con? I like the idea not being a miner yet would be nice not to throw away some of your loot. However, wouldn't the donkey negate this for miners?
My idea had been that the amount of food you ate in a short period of time (an hour or so) is kept, and it effects you at that instance. The long-term thing remains there - was meant to be an addition instead of a replacement, but even if you have a donkey, or are safe at home smithing, not needing to interrupt your work to eat food is a nice thing.
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