Quest, Roleplay, Angst / Fear

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Djironnyma
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Post by Djironnyma »

Sorry guys mainly in german - i try to give a short English summery.

I / My char dji fear only a very few things (which that are i will not tell puplic *g*). The reason is simple - he just see to much world-destroying evils ( demons, necros, wood-ghost, rabbits, whatever). And they lose - ever. The question was never for him if one of these evil guys die - only when.

Also i see a OOC problem that chars very rarely die - you must be a really, really big idiot to permadie by a quest -so there is nothing what you really have to fear, aside to lost some items or skills - same can happen in a dungeon. And yes i know the ironic if ~I~ speak from permadie :wink: .


~~~~~~~~

*tief lufthohl*

Angst. Was ist eigentlich Angst. Angst ist, nach meiner ~persönlichen~ Definition, die Erwartung das sich etwas verschlechtert, etwas schlimmes, etwas negatives eintritt. Startet eine Quest tritt jedoch, für den Spieler, in aller Regel das Gegenteil ein. Eine Quest verspricht immer Spannung, Unterhaltung und bei Zeiten vielleicht eine nette Questbelohnung. Etwas auf das sich also der Spieler freut, unabhängig davon, wie die Situation IG aussieht - wie sie sich dem Char darstellt. Dem Spieler wird meisten eine spaßige Zeit suggestiviert.

Von daher ist es für den Spieler sehr kontraproduktiv seinen Char kreischend wegrennen zu lassen wenn er einen Drachen/Dämon/whatever sieht. Gewiss wäre bei 90% der Chars das "bessere" Rollenspiel die flucht zu ergreifen. Aber seihen wir ehrlich. Vergleichen wir den Spielspaß von Option A) Wegrennen oder B) Stehen/zukucken/einsteigen so unterliegt Option A) gewaltig. Dieses verhalten wird ja auch von GM Seite her unterstützt (was keine Kritik darstellt sondern einfach ein Questbedingter Fakt ist). Derjenige Char, wessen PO die Angst dessen ignoriert, hat eine höhere Chance tief in die Quest involviert zu werden und dadurch mehr Spielspaß und evt. Questbelohnung zu erhalten. Ganz ehrlich, welcher GM hat schon einen Spieler belohnt dafür das er weg rannte oder sich ängstlich versteckt hat? Ich denke wenn überhaupt sind dass vereinzelte Ausnahmen. Dadurch wird den Spielern aber natürlich auch ein gewisses, angstloses Verhalten "anerzogen".

Ein anderer Punkt für die Angstlosigkeit ist, das es aus Spielersicht nichts wirklich zu fürchten gibt. Im schlimmsten Fall wird der Char geghostet und das kann einem auch in jedem Dungeon passieren. Um bei einer Quest einen Permatod zu erleiden muss man sich schon sehr, sehr dämlich anstellen. Und ja mir ist die Ironie bewusst wenn ~ich~ von Permatod als Sache die zu fürchten sit rede *g*. Aber es muss ja nicht immer gleich das extrem sein. Erschafft einen Gedankenschinder - der den Geist der umliegenden Chars auffrisst - so das die Skills derer sinken die mit ihm länger zutun haben - was glaubt ihr wie unsere "Helden" fliehen würden :wink: .

Diese beiden Punkte sind das allgemeine Kernproblem - kommen wir nun zu mir und meinem Char. Gewiss kann auch ich nicht behaupten, von oben stehenden Punkten vollkommen unberührt zu sein, denke jedoch das bei mir persönlich andere Fakten vorherrschen.
"Wenn das Licht von tausend Sonnen
am Himmel plötzlich bräch' hervor,
Zu gleicher Zeit - das wäre
Gleich dem Glanze des Herrlichen...
Ich bin der Tod, der alles raubt,
Erschütterer der Welten"
Aus Bhagavad-Gita, bekanntgeworden durch Openheimer als er es nach den Atombombentests zitierte, ein Text der mir persönlich immer wieder Gänsehaut verursacht, dessen Worte und deren Bedeutungen allein mir Angst bereitet.

Würde Dji sowas hören, aus dem Munde eines noch so grässlichen Dämons, er würde nur mit den schultern zucken und weiter seiner dinge walten. Warum? Nicht aus Hochmut weil er denkt sie können ihm eh nichts oder er sei unantastbar - schlichtweg aus der Erfahrung heraus das eh nichts geschehen wird. Ich habe nun schon so viele Dämonen/Nekromanten/Waldgeister/Killerschafe erlebt die den Untergang bringen wollten (und potenziell auch hätten können). Doch früher oder später wurden sie alle besiegt, das "gute" gewann und alles war wie immer. Dadurch hat sich mit der zeit bei Dji aus der Furcht ob das Böse gewinnt nur noch die Frage entwickelt wie lange es wohl durchhält. Ich/mein Char fürchten IG Feinde (andere Chars) weitaus mehr als jeden noch so dollen Dämon - denn die sind nach drei Monaten nicht wieder vergessen.

Erst gestern ging mal wieder die Welt unter - ein ach so grausamer Sturm - eine ach so wütende Natur - ein ach so schrecklicher Tavernenbrand - eine ach so bekannte Geschichte. Blablakeks oder ihr werdet alle sterben *gähn*. Ganz ehrlich, Dji war in der Zeit Handel treiben. Wenn man in einem Kriegsgebiet lebt muss das Leben auch weitergehen, da bestellt man auch sein Feld wenn mal nen Schuß fällt - auch wenn wir als Personen die im Frieden leben wegrennen würden. Und wenn dji alle zwei Wochen hört, dass warum auch immer die Apokalypse kommt, dann arrangiert man sich irgendwann einfach mit diesen ständig auftauchenden Bedrohungen.

Davon abgesehen hat mein Char durch seine persönlichen Weg natürlich eh eine etwas differenzierte Sicht auf den Lauf der Dinge, auf Götter, Dämonen und so weiter. Er fürchtet nicht wirklich dass iIhm ein Stein auf den Kopf fällt oder ihm jemand den Kopf vom Körper reißt. Er weiß ja eh was danach geschehen würde und wie er vorzugehen hätte. Das wäre für ihn zwar äußerst anstrengend und zeitraubend aber kein ~Ende~. Dafür fürchtet er ganz andere Dinge, die jeder andere Char als vollkommen harmlos empfindet - was das ist plauder ich dann aber doch lieber nicht öffentlich aus ;o) (Was nicht heißt das ich darüber mit einem neugierigem GM gerne ausgiebig plauder ^^).

So viel zu meiner Meinung, und Danke das sie dir wichtig genug ist das du bis hier hin gelesen hast ^.~
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Sundo Raca
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Post by Sundo Raca »

Dantagon Marescot wrote: Or there was Wolf who was consitering what loot would be found on the demon ((XD)).
Tbf, his character would have little other reason for fighting evil demons :) .

Anyway, whats been discussed here is something pretty well known to everyone now. What really pisses me off is how people rarely show fear during rp itself. Eg: Wolf holds a sword to a halflings neck, and tries to kidnap him, yet the halfling risks decapitation by twisting away and shaking his fist at the elf six foot taller than him.

All because he knows perma-death cant really happen. Not sure what can be done however.
Last edited by Sundo Raca on Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Silent
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Post by Silent »

I guess I am hardly a newbie anymore, but concerning the fear in the quests, well...

As the battle in Caelum took place, just to name an example, there were people, including my character, in Greenbriar, who sat by the fire and discussed the events. Because they were no fighters, there was no reason for them to take part in the quest at all: what could they do? Why should a farmer be there to watch men and demons on a battlefield, risking their lives in the process? A farmer with some common sense would rather leave the island and come back if things turn out all right. And that is the case with all of the soon-the-world-as-we-know-it-could-cease-to-exist-plotlines, they mostly adress fighters or mages, not the 'regular' people, those who actually would have fear.
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Aegohl
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Post by Aegohl »

Right. This particular quest was a quest for the fighters. I have quests for the non-fighters as well, and yet more planned. This one primarily focused on PVM, and that was it's intention: some PVM then maybe some thought-provoking narrative. I don't think there's nothing wrong with one part of a story being just that. =)
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Llama
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Post by Llama »

In my opinion, fighter quests SHOULD get bloody.

Yes, knock them down and cloud them. Maybe next time evil-demon/undead/whatever #3.142 comes out, people will actually fear getting clouded.
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Sundo Raca
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Post by Sundo Raca »

Hadrian_Abela wrote:In my opinion, fighter quests SHOULD get bloody.

Yes, knock them down and cloud them. Maybe next time evil-demon/undead/whatever #3.142 comes out, people will actually fear getting clouded.
Totally man. I dont think the gms should hold back in fighter type quests. The good guys dont even always have to win imo. :wink:
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Post by Achae Eanstray »

Sundo Raca wrote: What really pisses me off is how people rarely show fear during rp itself. Eg: Wolf holds a sword to a halflings neck, and tries to kidnap him, yet the halfling risks decapitation by twisting away and shaking his fist at the elf six foot taller than him.

All because he knows perma-death cant really happen. Not sure what can be done however.

Just as an aside.. the problem with that RP is only if all expect to win... my very strong fighter char was downed by a halfling boy as she tripped over a rope at night. Just because your char is strong doesn't mean they may win in RP either.

Yes, knock them down and cloud them. Maybe next time evil-demon/undead/whatever #3.142 comes out, people will actually fear getting clouded.


Which may be why my fighter char hasn't been in too many quests.. not actually, there are other reasons but the quests are to be fun for all, I have known some not go due to clouding. IMO I would only enjoy the quest if I didn't loose skill during it.
Because they were no fighters, there was no reason for them to take part in the quest at all: what could they do


I was at the quest and did nothing but listen to the RP from outside the building mainly.. and the demon did Wonderful RP by the way.
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Aegohl
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Post by Aegohl »

Hanseus was pretty tough and he was almost ganked halfway through. He ordered everyone to back up because it was getting deadly (and it was), and everyone did. Had they ignored him, there would have been a few deaders, I'm sure. Most people proceeded carefully from there on out, so it might have been cruel to gank players on this one, since they made it difficult to do so by using their brains. =0

As for charging at a demon being bad roleplay, even most villains I've played know there's nothing good to come out a demon and most heroes I've played know there's great honor to be had in falling in battle to one.

I say wait a few minutes to see if the critter has something to say, then send it back to hell. =)

Of course, that's with trying to look through the eyes of someone who lives in the setting. Kinship and honor should be everything to an honor bound soldier like Hanseus.
Last edited by Aegohl on Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Silent
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Post by Silent »

I was at the quest and did nothing but listen to the RP from outside the building mainly.. and the demon did Wonderful RP by the way.
Heh, wanted to do that too, yes. The point was that such actions are *usually* hard to justify from the character's point of view without stretching some things too far. Being at the battlefield is, after all, a dangerous situation.
Last edited by Silent on Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Retlak
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Post by Retlak »

Some of the characters there did not fear death for a reason, not so much PO's being bad at rping fear, but some were not on the same side of the majority of the characters.
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Post by Aegohl »

Nothing wrong with what you guys did, Silent. I had warned that this quest was for the strong, and I'm glad that I had a secondary audience who stayed waiting for the results. If I had known at the time, I might have gotten you all involved somehow. =)
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Sundo Raca
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Post by Sundo Raca »

Achae Eanstray wrote:
Sundo Raca wrote: What really pisses me off is how people rarely show fear during rp itself. Eg: Wolf holds a sword to a halflings neck, and tries to kidnap him, yet the halfling risks decapitation by twisting away and shaking his fist at the elf six foot taller than him.

All because he knows perma-death cant really happen. Not sure what can be done however.

Just as an aside.. the problem with that RP is only if all expect to win... my very strong fighter char was downed by a halfling boy as she tripped over a rope at night. Just because your char is strong doesn't mean they may win in RP either.
I dont expect or anticipate 'winning', i just think the halfling in the situation should rp at least some kind of fear. My point is most characters attitudes to dangers are very unrealistic.
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Post by Silent »

The conversation at the campfire was quite nice all by itself, Aegohl, so no problem there. :wink:
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Post by Achae Eanstray »

Sundo Raca wrote:
Achae Eanstray wrote:
Sundo Raca wrote: What really pisses me off is how people rarely show fear during rp itself. Eg: Wolf holds a sword to a halflings neck, and tries to kidnap him, yet the halfling risks decapitation by twisting away and shaking his fist at the elf six foot taller than him.

All because he knows perma-death cant really happen. Not sure what can be done however.

Just as an aside.. the problem with that RP is only if all expect to win... my very strong fighter char was downed by a halfling boy as she tripped over a rope at night. Just because your char is strong doesn't mean they may win in RP either.

I dont expect or anticipate 'winning', i just think the halfling in the situation should rp at least some kind of fear. My point is most characters attitudes to dangers are very unrealistic.
I understand that! rofl.. in fact one of my chars actually had all taken given back to her plus coin for the transporter :oops: they felt sorry for her, she was very afraid!
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Post by Pellandria »

I somehow always got the luck to be dragged into some kind of quest, I never had the nerv to read it all here. but I think for special "stupid" behaviour gms sould have a litttle more free hand, I just remember at the juge of fate quest where people run up to him all the time, just teleport him into an gm castle cell or somewhere far away.

But anyway, I think the problem is still the "I can't die" rule, I mean yes we got many chars who are fighter, who are given by their experience quite fearless, but still that everyone is just fearless is beyond the normal measure.

On the other side Gm's/Players should not be wondering why the chars don't play fearless, because the engine allows to kill almost everything as long as you spend enough time hitting on it, Golems or anything bigger than them should not be able to be beaten, even ogres should be a considerable danger, not something where a char can basicly kill thousand ogers if he wants.
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Post by Rainny »

I've usually tried to stay out of these types of posts for the last 3 years. However, I've finnaly been quirked the wrong way. I'm not going to say that Old Illa is better than New Illa. Infact, alot of the static items and Crafts systems are 20x better than Illa before, where 1 iron ingot and an axle handle could make a double axe. Or where 1 coal could smelt 50 iron. It's quite more realistic in that sense. However, I must say that the RP has suffered from it.

People used to play illa to RP with the people around the towns. They were interesting people, With thier own Strengths and Weaknesses. A Real person in a virtual world you can say. Now, I've noticed that everyone keeps in thier small groups, and RP's thier own little story. I personally have spent weeks, Rping with newer players that didn't know an ounce about Role Play, Because they wanted to learn. But it doesn't seem like this is the case anymore. I log on, and tend to stay too myself now, After the first few days of trying to interact with the locals. Durin the Natures Wrath quest, My char warned everyone to Take refugee in higher ground, As the Rivers were flooding. I was responded with "Let it flood" Aswell as 4 characters outside in torrental rain near the fire. And during the quest with Mitch's Demon, I heard the exact phrase "What did it drop?" I must ask, How does something you kill drop something? It would stay with him/her on his/her body or fall to the floor around it.

As I look at the community that we have, We have many great people. Mitch is by far the best quester that has ever existed, Backed By Nae, Who I was a quester with and is beyond amazing. Aswell as Rev and Mesha. These 4 can put together the most dynamic quests with the greatest story lines at the drop of a hat. However, they are forced otherwise due to the lack of Understanding of the background and religon of Illa. People spent alot of time to write it, Yet few people actually study it. There are 4 types of players I see around. All nearly the same. The Hero Knight, Striving towards Honor and Valor, The Arrogant Mage, With the control of the Elements, The Cultist, with the twisted views, And the Brigand, Who thieves by brute force.

For those who know who I am the PO of other than Rainny. I play a thief. Not a Brigand, or a Rouge. A Thief. For 9 months I played this thief, And was quite succesful, Yet this rouge has 0. And I mean 0 Skills. All he has is the most basic skills given upon Character Creation. And he is one of the few remebered characters I played upon returning. But now, Why would I play a thief in a Control + Click happy enviornment? To make my way to a cross every 15 minutes? No, I might aswell Power game my fighting skills so I could survive such and encounter and take away from my Role playing time with people that I might find interesting.

Going back to crafting. I have noticed the severe lack of crafters wishing to sell goods, and if they do sell thier goods, it is for such a severe price that one must do his or her own craft, Be in Fighting for money, or crafting and selling for hours on end to even afford such a small thing. I understand that Illa is a completely Player run economy, and people have the right to charge what they charge. But, none wish to find others with thier craft and create an supplier market, Like the Farmers union or the Mining guild which once stood strong. Everyone wishes to just Treasure hunt, For Wealth and Power, right?
Sundo Raca wrote: Totally man. I dont think the gms should hold back in fighter type quests. The good guys dont even always have to win imo. :wink:
Infact, The good guys lost quite frequently. The Lich wars was a loosing battle for over a month. Yet, that time was possibly the greatest RP i had ever had.
Silent wrote:
I was at the quest and did nothing but listen to the RP from outside the building mainly.. and the demon did Wonderful RP by the way.
Heh, wanted to do that too, yes. The point was that such actions are *usually* hard to justify from the character's point of view without stretching some things too far. Being at the battlefield is, after all, a dangerous situation.
One of my chars was there aswell. And I asure you, I play him in a fighting situation the same as I play him in peace time. He is Arrogant, and Bullheaded, yes, It is how he was raised. But, When it comes to attacking a Demon, He will steer clear away, Or if he is forced to, Save another who can not get away.

Rainny is by no means a Fighter, a Druid of epic proportions. Drink, Sing, Dance, Love, Nature, Flowers, Food. So when an orc raises a hammer at her, It would send her tumbling backwards. The same if you played a mage. If an orc his close to you with a large weapon, I would think you would be quite afraid, Since you are frail (Unless you are Athian, Who made his stats into a Warlock or Battle Mage, so he can take the hits). Yet they stand there like their magic is all powerfull. Even My fighter will not attack a mage unless he can get to them quickly.

Just my two cents. I do not mean to be offensive, if I came off as such I appologize, I Just wished to show an Observation.
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Post by LifeWonder »

Didn't read the whole topic so I don't know if it's already been said but;

I've started avoiding quest because a lot of the time, people will just go there because it's a "GM ran quest". Whether their character has anything to do with the quest or not doesn't matter, curiosity overtakes it.

So it gets crowdy and chaotic and eventually annoying to be at.
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Post by Bellringer »

All the Orc things are GM sponsored, but we live out our days in undisturbed peace because only Orcs/Grakir can get into the orc cave :)

Hint: If you want a good quest, form a private members club.
8)
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Post by Mesha »

LifeWonder wrote:Didn't read the whole topic so I don't know if it's already been said but;

I've started avoiding quest because a lot of the time, people will just go there because it's a "GM ran quest". Whether their character has anything to do with the quest or not doesn't matter, curiosity overtakes it.

So it gets crowdy and chaotic and eventually annoying to be at.
Actually, thankfully, a lot of the quests we do are unannounced, spur of the moment things, or just small things which only involve a set of players. But true, if your fun doesn't lie there, then it just doesn't. I do hope you do not walk away from quests initiated just for you. ;)
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Post by LifeWonder »

Why would a quest be initiated just for me? >_>'
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Post by Mesha »

Well, because I would happen to be hanging around your character and seeing an opportunity for a small quest (rewardless, ofcourse. Or perhaps an apple =) ). You'd understand if you'd have had one of those quests. All I am saying is, that some of you do not realise that a lot of quests happen without announcement through the questplanner.
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Post by Llama »

Yeah like the time we were mining , the ground started hissing and demonic screams came out.

It was DF all over again. *Looks traumatised*

Who WAS that GM anyway?
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Post by Sundo Raca »

Mesha wrote:Well, because I would happen to be hanging around your character and seeing an opportunity for a small quest (rewardless, ofcourse. Or perhaps an apple =) ). You'd understand if you'd have had one of those quests. All I am saying is, that some of you do not realise that a lot of quests happen without announcement through the questplanner.
Let me just say, these quests completely own.
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Post by Retlak »

LifeWonder wrote:I've started avoiding quest because a lot of the time, people will just go there because it's a "GM ran quest".

Or in your case, you go there to grab rare items and escape quickly without any emotes, selling them at a later date because coin means more than rp to you? :wink:
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Post by Aegohl »

LifeWonder wrote:Why would a quest be initiated just for me? >_>'
I believe you're one of two players who have met "I Shan't," so you should know why a quest would be initiated just for you: in that case, because you went in a different direction than was expected and I said "Oooooh! Let's play with this."
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Post by LifeWonder »

Retlak wrote:
LifeWonder wrote:I've started avoiding quest because a lot of the time, people will just go there because it's a "GM ran quest".

Or in your case, you go there to grab rare items and escape quickly without any emotes, selling them at a later date because coin means more than rp to you? :wink:
You hear: A small leather bag is left behind.
w:'Seregon': greenbriar
Someone: no rabbits.
'Seregon' starts with a mystical formula.
You hear: [dwa] ************
You hear: hmm so this is the great threat...
'Seregon': [anc] JUS FHEN ANTH KEL
Blake Thorn opens it quickly and pulls something out.
Blake Thorn starts with a mystical formula and his hands become indistinct.
Blake Thorn: [anc] JUS TAUR KEL
'Liam Heneghan': Blake
Not reading fast enough doesn't give you permission to blame others. :wink:
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Fear in RP

Post by Joxia Doral »

Back to topic....I must say my part recently in a quest, those around Jox did well in showing fear of her and what she could do them.... I feel like the responses were what was being looked for and the RP was great. ( of course there were demons to kill and great loot to be had.....yet :wink: )
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Post by Dantagon Marescot »

Ah, so there was an emote, it was just so chotic and so quickly went through with that it was missed. Though it also wasn't very paticular in what was opened. I'm not mad or anything, I'm just stating that it was lost in the mass confusion.
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Post by LifeWonder »

Dantagon Marescot wrote:Ah, so there was an emote, it was just so chotic and so quickly went through with that it was missed. Though it also wasn't very paticular in what was opened. I'm not mad or anything, I'm just stating that it was lost in the mass confusion.
There was a bunch of emote before that too, the log file is too big, I can PM it if you like.
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Post by Retlak »

I agree with dantagon's post above.
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