Quest, Roleplay, Angst / Fear

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Post by Alytys Lamar » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:23 am

Quest, Roleplay, Angst / Fear

Dieser Thread richtet sich vor allem an die Spieler die noch nicht so lange dabei sind.

Wie würdet ihre Euer Verhältnis zu Quests, entsprechendes Rollenspiel und Angst vor Bedrohung und Tod definieren -

Ich spiele schon lange und mich interessieren hier die Gedanken, denn es scheint eine Mentalität vor zu herrschen Quests zu ignorieren, zum PG zu nutzen und keine Angst vor irgendwas zu haben.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

This thread is adressed to the more or less new players.

How would you describe your proportionately to Quests, according RP to that and your definition to threats and death.

I playing a long time now and I'm interested in your opinions, because here since to be a mentality to ignore Quests, to use it for PG and to having no fear to anything.

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Post by Alytys Lamar » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:35 am

Noch etwas möchte ich hinzufügen - natürlich auch interessant wie es die *alten Hasen* sehen.

Just an addition -- surely interesting how is the view of the *old rabbits (german saying), too

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Post by Llama » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:44 am

I don't take part in quests, because from my experience they usually end up with one character taking the spotlight, everyone else acting like sheep and being totally ignored.

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Post by Aegohl » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:02 am

The one player that gets the attention is usually the one that makes himself available to the quest, leaving the sheep behind. I don't like playing with the same five people, either, but I play with those who make themselves available to me. =)

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Post by Ashayen » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:08 am

Well sadly it always was and always is/ will be the same, like Hadrian already said. But in a quest where the 'nature' is bringing doom over gobaith there should be shown a little more interest. And that not just while the quest is going on even 'after' the quest. Preparing a quest is a lot of work, seeing the reaction ig hurts.
I have the feeling as long as no 'effects' are shown nobody cares.
As for the fear-part, sadly most of the people of gobaith seem to have gone through an anti-fear therapy, all what they probably fear is being called a coward by his friends. :? Is there a hidden fear-attribute in the account, which i couldn't find yet and is probably set up to 0 by everyone? *sighs and goes searching*

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Post by Llama » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:08 am

Aegohl wrote:The one player that gets the attention is usually the one that makes himself available to the quest, leaving the sheep behind. I don't like playing with the same five people, either, but I play with those who make themselves available to me. =)
But your quests are different Mich ;)

Everyone still talks fondly about the judge ;)

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Post by Dantagon Marescot » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:38 am

*raises her hand.*

I tend to feel like one of those players some times. Dan shows up, willing to do stuff or is even asked to do stuff. I figure part of it is because Dan has connections which draw him into quests and he knows the right people ig. When Dan gets into quests it occasionally feels like he is picked on or singled out. It may be his charismatic (or lack there of) nature or something else I don't know about. ((Do we have a perfered quest character card? Because if so, I so am waiting for the perks of raised stats, awesome armor/weapons, and hordes of gold... Okay... kidding...))

As to the idea of sheep, I definately noticed it in the last quest. A lot of people showed up for the quest. Some of them I know I brought with me using the rp reasons of getting an army together, others were grey rose members, some probably had characters that absolutely cared, and even others I had no idea why they were there other than to be part of a quest. During the quest a demon showed up. Hanseus attacked causing everyone to attack the demon. Dan stood in the back with Taylor going "dumbasses" and shouting at them to stop attacking the demon. Dan was thinking of the consequences of attacking a demon immediately, where as I felt others were attacking either in mob mentality or going "Ooh! I bet there is sweet loot!"

A similar thing happened when the demon showed up again in the small room. People were crowding outside the room wanting to kill the demon, a few of us were inside speaking to it or trying to figure out what to do. Or there was Wolf who was consitering what loot would be found on the demon ((XD)). All of a sudden Hanseus attacked the demon again. Then all hell broke lose inside the room. Dain and the demon attacked Hanseus and everyone ran into the room after I made an emote of Dan running over towards Hanseus and couldn't get anywhere with people blocking me. As soon as the demon fell, the loot was gobbled up immediately and everyone seemed to had left. Garenteed Dan did state something and some people did follow it, but it seemed everyone had just left. Quest was over, rp was done.

Now, am I upset. No, not really. A little annoyed over the mass chaos and the constant client crashes, maybe, but not upset. Some what saddened might be the word as I feel a lot of people come to get the awesome loot and not so much the awesome rp. Very few people stuck around for the resulting rp, even fewer reacted on the message that corpses littered the courtyard (or even remembered) after the rp. But hey. If people choose to ignore it, so be it.

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Post by Ashayen » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:46 am

That session was funny, Ashayen had whole TB just for her alone. I was kinda surprised that 'so' much people went to Briar, even the already hurt people. :roll:

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Post by Dantagon Marescot » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:49 am

Yyyeeeeeaaaahhh... I understand why so many people went to Briar, I was intending to round people up (but they seemed to be at the bridge already). As for the injured... Bbbbaaaaahhhhhh! ;)

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Post by Ashayen » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:53 am

:P
Yes, i understand it as well, the shiny loot and stuff..

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Post by annika » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:04 am

Ich muß für meinen Teil sagen, dass ich ebenfalls nicht gerne an Questen teilnehme.
Zum einen ist es, wie oben schon gesagt, meist so, dass nur eine Handvoll Spieler aktiv einbezogen werden und ich habe den Eindruck, diese stehen von vorn herein fest.
Dazu kommt, dass bei jeder Quest, die ich bisher gesehen habe, nur gegen Monster gekämpft werden sollte, die für meinen Char eh unmöglich sind, oder der Sinn der Quest durch unnötige Diskussionen verworfen wird.
Ein weiterer Grund für mich, mich von den Questen fern zu halten, ist die Tatsache, dass ich zwar Englisch recht gut verstehe, ich jedoch viel zu langsam schreibe, um mal einen passenden Kommtar zur passenden Zeit fertig zu haben.

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Post by HolyKnight » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:18 am

As I told Dan on MSN I agree with most of what she said, but I am not like most people I think. Generally, I just think people's expectations for quests are just too high. Everyone moans about cliche quests that just do the same thing with different characters. Others feel like they are left out and not liked. For me I just do not view quests as bad or good...they are just quests. People put effort and thought into them so I always make sure to give them the benefit of the doubt.

To me quests just allow your characters to get out of their everyday norm and do something a little different. If you want to do quests for items, attention, or any other motive fine it does not bother me. I just continue to play along and do what I think my character would do in the given situation.

Afterward, if the gm wants feedback or criticism I give it to him or her. Otherwise, I just go about my business. My word of advice to all those out there that are frustrated or unimpressed by quests, you should come up with one yourself.

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Post by Llama » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:26 am

I think if we change GM monsters to not drop loot (instead its given to players who deserve it), and that GM monsters can (and will) PK those who attack if (if its a DEMON) -

Then less people will complain about quests, and more people will complain about GMs PKing them.

I personally agree to this change.

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Post by Mesha » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:33 am

To Dantagon:

I actually did notice you during that quest, but I could not do anything. Sadly, the way magic is set up, I couldn't crap against 8 characters attacking my sweet little demon. Even with 9999999 HP I went down in 30 seconds. I could make one #me, perhaps 2, and I could not cast (since so many characters hitting you just disrupts casting, even with imba-attributeS).

"and shouting at them to stop attacking the demon. Dan was thinking of the consequences of attacking a demon immediately, where as I felt others were attacking either in mob mentality or going "Ooh! I bet there is sweet loot!" "

I personally feel that attacking a demon straightout is also rather reckless. But on the other hand, I couldn't just all kill them, because then you have people whining too!

Personally I wish that people would take things slower, #me a little, leave room for people to #me as well. For instance, at some point I threw Hanseus to the ground pretty roughly, Hanseus being smacked into a corner. No one went over to him because everyone was basically waiting for the big demon to die and grab his loot (or that is how I feel it went anyhow).

Oh well, nothing to do about it now.

Also, I do appreciate criticism, be it extremely negative, as long as I can do something with it. So anyone with criticism (constructive please), about the quest from saturday and about the quest on sunday, please, feel free to post some. I will even make a thread for you, where you can air your grievances.

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Post by Llama » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:39 am

Suggestion:

We should change the code so that GM-controlled entities don't get interrupted while casting spells. All it'll take it removing one line and some sort of check (or add one of the GM runes)

Then when you get ganged, you just summon a very overpowered circle of fire around you, problem solved.

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Post by Dantagon Marescot » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:45 am

I'm not blaming you at all, Mesha. There really is only so much you can do with a few people attacking you attacking you at once. It really seemed like people were looking for the loot and not the rp. I remember at the very end that a bag was said to have been left by the demon. I personally have no idea what was in that bag or even who took it. I was told ig that someone (will not name, so if you weren't there, you won't know), grabbed it. As far as I can recall there was no emote for it. If anything someone should grab it first and then emote, but I saw nothing. As far as I can tell it was taken and the person ran.

What ever it was, if it had to do with the quest or a future quest, fine it is gone and it will start with whomever had the bag. But the lack of emotes to begin with was rather upsetting.

>.> Bbbbaaaahhhh...

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Post by Mesha » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:47 am

The bag contained 4 gems, incase you were curious. I will look into other possibilities of leaving loot, because as it stands now it's just the one with the biggest click and drag skill who gets it.

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Post by HolyKnight » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:52 am

Well I guess maybe a simple solution when you have a big quest... is to have you as the demon like you were ...and you said you could not attack with magic. If you could have another invisible GM that could cast for you that might help. This way you can at least do mob control. Otherwise I guess characters have to be shown not to mess with a Demon like they did by seriously overwhelming them with either more NPCs or some other technique. Going back to having an invisible GM behind you... if your magic resistance is 100 or whatever then your invisible gm could just JUS QWAN DUN people off of you.

Other then that I do not see the big deal with your quest. I thought it was inventive and I liked it, but as you said it needed to go just a bit slower.

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Post by Mesha » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:55 am

Other then that I do not see the big deal with your quest. I thought it was inventive and I liked it, but as you said it needed to go just a bit slower.
Exactly that. I would urge people to allow for more #me's. From themselves and for others. That is what makes quests immersive and fun, not attacking the demon and grabbing for loot.

Also, about letting my GM char cast, I have thought about that myself (a bit too late, granted). So next time I'll do that. If I stand inside the demons the #me's will even show up as his!

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Post by Alytys Lamar » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:17 am

Well - I have to blame myself to attack the demon after some seconds of hesitate, cause Aly is a predator and she saw friends in danger - but I never looted. I hoped the demon is too strong to went down so easily.

BTW.: the loot was very fast grabbed by an elf , dunno his name.

But mostly Aly stands in background whispering with Taylor and the whole behaviour of the most players was strange to me ( especially if someone stated *farts* or *let me know when the demon attacks* )

The other thing is the Nature Quest - Why do people not fear the storms which destroying parts of TB ?
Or saying to a player who tried to warn people about the flood * let it flood ? *

Seems to be like Ashayen mentioned - a NO-Fear pill or ignorance. In RL you would have fear and piss in your underpants if such storms and floodings destroy anything around you.

@annika Was ist mit deutschen Quests ? Die gleiche Meinung ?

Wegen dem langsamen Schreiben - wir haben hier eine excellente und sogar behinderte Spielerin die uns einfach ein OOC Stop gibt wenn wir ihr zu schnell werden und wir warten bis sie soweit ist - und auch sie hat ( oder denkt sie hat ) Probleme mit englisch.

Ich denke da ist es nötig dass Aktion von beiden Seiten kommt, nicht einfach aufgeben.
Als ich begonnen habe war englisches RP für mich eine Pein :P

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Post by Dariya » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:49 am

First of all: I surely won't run to any quest I read about in the quest planner.
It would be utter nonsense if I suddenly show up in places I normally never go to just to join a quest!
I might join a quest which somehow fits to my chars and their backgrounds, their usual surrounding and the like, but ...

... the last time I intended to join a quest and entered the 'quest meeting place' I was sooooo ... shocked about the - excuse my direct words - ridiculous behaviour of too many chars following some stranger to danger, giggling and chatting. At that point I decided to leave again.
Sorry for those who put work, time and effort in the quests.

Concerning 'fear' it will most probably always be that most of the chars do not fear anything.
My chars do fear, be it fog (referring to the Norodaj background), be it orcs or Rankors ;) or other chars glorifying violence or just *shrugs* whatever ... I do not play 'uber'-chars, so yes, they do fear.

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Post by Keikan Hiru » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:53 am

Mesha wrote:[...] I will look into other possibilities of leaving loot, because as it stands now it's just the one with the biggest click and drag skill who gets it.
Variant 1:
1) Note down characters who have deserved a loot token in your eyes, by performing specific tasks in your quest.
2) Have a Dev insert the loot you want them to get into thier depot after your quest is finished.
3) Face accusiations of favourism.

Variant 2:
1) Have a Dev prepare a special depot for you, with preset items in it.
2) Spawn depot after players finished your quest, as somekind of "loot box".
3) Watch a flood of characters (from all the island) swarm the depot, grabbing, the items and hurry off into the dark from where they came.
4) Face players devour themself as loot-horny-quest-whores.

Your pick. ;)

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Post by pharse » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:57 am

I do not and have never taken part in such quests if I wasn't coincidentally dragged into it (1-2 exceptions).

Why?
I had bad experiences as others already described it here. Additionally if my char has no ambitions to get involved, why should I force him.

That was "in the past". Meanwhile I am merely IG and can't judge the latest GM work.

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Post by Juliana D'cheyne » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:59 am

I enjoy all the quests and not for the loot, in fact most of the time my chars see nothing of it unless directly involved in it but DO have suggestions for GM chars because I wasn't aware they had the same restrictions as others ig. I REALLY think GM chars such as demons etc. should be maxed out and unkillable unless the GM actually wants them killed. :? When attacked the GM can decide whether or how much to attack back, I also think the GM should decide the loot placing it directly in the chars bag if able to script-wise.


1) Note down characters who have deserved a loot token in your eyes, by performing specific tasks in your quest.
2) Have a Dev insert the loot you want them to get into thier depot after your quest is finished.
3) Face accusiations of favourism.

Variant 2:
1) Have a Dev prepare a special depot for you, with preset items in it.
2) Spawn depot after players finished your quest, as somekind of "loot box".
3) Watch a flood of characters (from all the island) swarm the depot, grabbing, the items and hurry off into the dark from where they came.
4) Face players devour themself as loot-horny-quest-whores.
I also think some quests.. a percentage should be without any loot so those that just get in for the loot alone would be discouraged. The object of a quest is to meet other chars and the RP.. all having fun ig. Those in it for the loot alone or those simply avoiding their surroundings paying NO attention to ig events are NOT playing as the game was intended. It is the same as the other thread that was posted a few weeks ago about ignoring someone's RP you walk in on. I know the GM's are at the quest to encourage all to have fun, but any purposefully interferring with the quest possibly the char needs to be sent away to allow others to enjoy it.

I have read threads complaining of too many at the quest, not enough at a quest, chars getting ig just to go to a quest... by now it is a little confusing. My chars go to them if their background and experience points to it... actually I would probably go to more but have no excuse ig for an RP reason to be there a lot of times :D

I actually like the idea of a little more ooc initially on the quest. The explanation on the quest page is usually very brief not really describing what is planned and sometimes not even where. If a little more detailed it could allow those PO's to either avoid, or be prepared to RP "severe storms playing havoc with the town of TB".... or "unkillable demons at Caelum" ..or "a magic lamp that just may turn all around into an animal somewhere in TB".. I know a lot including me like the surprise and those that do can just not read the quest board and be totally surprised. For those that want to decide, this gives them an option to stay out of TB, or wherever the quest is.

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Post by pharse » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:04 pm

Just for the record: There ARE tools for GMs not to get killed, kill instantly etc. But it is a different kettle of fish to actually use it: first: know about it, second: risk to make many players angry.

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Post by Mesha » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:18 pm

pharse wrote:Just for the record: There ARE tools for GMs not to get killed, kill instantly etc. But it is a different kettle of fish to actually use it: first: know about it, second: risk to make many players angry.
Exactly. The point was, that the demon was to be able to get killed. However, I have never done such a big quest before (I have only been a GM for what...2-3 weeks tops?). I did not realise that when 8 players swarm you, even demons with 999999 health die quickly.

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Post by Aegohl » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:34 pm

Mesha, you did fine. =) You improvised with what you had. =)

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Post by Alytys Lamar » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:50 pm

Yes I agree - and exactly this is one of the intentions behind my thread.

IMO not only we as a group of players should having fun - the GM's should have fun too :wink:
If we *ignore* the work of the GM's they get frustrated - and they have then all right to be so.

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Post by Aegohl » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:52 pm

We have our share of fun. When we see a big server full of roleplay, we are happy. =)

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Post by Juliana D'cheyne » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:17 pm

Mesha wrote:
pharse wrote:Just for the record: There ARE tools for GMs not to get killed, kill instantly etc. But it is a different kettle of fish to actually use it: first: know about it, second: risk to make many players angry.
Exactly. The point was, that the demon was to be able to get killed. However, I have never done such a big quest before (I have only been a GM for what...2-3 weeks tops?). I did not realise that when 8 players swarm you, even demons with 999999 health die quickly.
I personally think the quest was wonderful, I only mentioned about the GM tools not knowing them at all, due to the posts above. But there has been NO quest I haven't fully enjoyed and wish to thank all GM's who give their time for quests.

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