I want to apologize to those people at the campfire

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Olive
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I want to apologize to those people at the campfire

Post by Olive »

/rant
i got rather irritated at the sudden crowd that just showed up for no particular reason, BUT you really did deserve a dressing down, you ignored the fact that there was a man and a zombie wrestling at the fire

NOBODY just sits down at a campfire and lets themselves get covered with, things best left undescribed.. If you didn't want to take part that is fine, but then please dont just mill about as if its not going on right next to you


This RP ignoring is gettign a bit old. You cant ignore things happening right next to you as if its not there, this is just one of many instances and this is the proverbial straw that broke the camels back for me

/rant off
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Jupiter
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Post by Jupiter »

It is like fishing and throwing the fish away even in the town, a public place, because it is no oillamp or a trasuer map.
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Mesha
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Post by Mesha »

You can always !gm if you see something like that happening Olive. Now we cannot do anything about it, but if you did !gm at that moment in time we could have come and taken a look.

To whomever it concerns, please do remember that RP is a joint venture. If someone is RPing in your direct vaccinity, you cannot just simply ignore them, leaving them to RP to a brick wall. Everytime you log in, you must know that other people are there to have fun too. And as I said, RP is a joint venture, you cannot RP alone, so please, do not ignore eachother's RP.
Werner von Mintraching
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Post by Werner von Mintraching »

i for instances was looking a while for whats going on there on the camp fire, then i read these lines...

w:[from a dwarf]: (( what is a sheast? ))
w:[from a dwarf]: ((*shest ))
[from a human]: (( simple request, if you are not payign attention the to the man wresting withthe zombie go away to another fire you are disrupting the scene with no realitic reason for being there))

and i desidet, that scene isnt ment for peoples who have dificoulthy with the english language and my char hit the road without doing any furher, as the dwarf did.

Blame me for any thing, but these wasnt the atmosphere where i would love to roleplay.
Malkar
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Post by Malkar »

No offense, but seriously buy a mirror, Olive.
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Youchimitchu
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Post by Youchimitchu »

Hmm German players have a hard time understanding english players and english players have hard time understanding german players.

this language barrier effects us all ive been trying to learn to read german but it is very hard to learn without a teacher.

I must say at least olive had the guts to say sorry which is more then most do.
Last edited by Youchimitchu on Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Julius
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Post by Julius »

Learn English first. :wink:


Kidding?
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Avalyon el'Hattarr
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Post by Avalyon el'Hattarr »

Most german players know english, at least the necerely bit that would give them an idea of what goes arround them.. the thing is that even if they do, they dont bother reading the english speech or me's..
And this is not about german players only, but about all that ignore rolepley, because I have seen a lot even from english speaking ones.
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rakust dorenstkzul
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Post by rakust dorenstkzul »

Julius wrote:Learn English first. :wink:


Kidding?
We're waiting for you to start Jewls.
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Post by Weilanderus »

also ich bin einer von diesen deutschen spielern...
mein englisch ist miserabel richtig..
Folgerung ich bin zwar zu den meisten englischen höflich, aber versuche ein RP vollständig mit ihnen zu vermeiden.
Gründe:
Selbst wenn ich besseres englisch lernen würde könnte ich viel aber garantiert kein RP betreiben den das setzt fast perfektes englisch und einiges an terminilogie voraus.eine ausnahme gibt es wenn ne große party beisammen ist und genügend spieler die beides können dann funktionierts, ansonsten sehe ich da eher schwarz.
gruss PO Agnir
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Juliana D'cheyne
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Post by Juliana D'cheyne »

I believe yesterday there was a cold going around quickly and only one campfire, yet I have been in the middle of a RP and other chars came up doing a completely different RP not even trying to become involved in the one going on. Sometimes in that case if the RP I am doing can't stop, I simply leave the area in order not to make waves. IMO pretty soon the chars that do that will be complaining they can't find anyone to RP with :D

Sometimes it is the background of the char also... like a shady char that doesn't get "involved" much with town politics :wink:
Last edited by Juliana D'cheyne on Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bellringer
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Post by Bellringer »

I love colds...nothing like flu to bring people together :P
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Juliana D'cheyne
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Post by Juliana D'cheyne »

Bellringer wrote:I love colds...nothing like flu to bring people together :P
Actually had a very nice RP with some chars on the farm :D
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Ardian
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Post by Ardian »

I had a look at my log and noticed that there were around 10 different people spamming the "chat-window" and the screen by emoting or writing stuff at the moment we arrived in Trollsbane.
So you for sure can imagine how easy it is to overread something about a zombie in such a moment, especially when you're concetrated in another plot. I for myself realized just now that there was a zombie wrestling.
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Lillian
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Post by Lillian »

Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:... the thing is that even if they do, they dont bother reading the english speech or me's..
I don't think that they ignore it, but as mentioned above there is a huge difference between understanding English and rp in English. An German can never rp as fluent as an native English speaking player, so most try to avoid scenes where there have to rp in English and go on to look for German rp.

And I think that it is understandable :wink:
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Post by LifeWonder »

I CAN FEEL THE LOVE IN THIS THREAD.
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Post by Retlak »

ME TOO, NOW GET BACK TO THE DECKS CAPTAIN
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Aegohl
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Post by Aegohl »

Lillian wrote:
Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:... the thing is that even if they do, they dont bother reading the english speech or me's..
I don't think that they ignore it, but as mentioned above there is a huge difference between understanding English and rp in English. An German can never rp as fluent as an native English speaking player, so most try to avoid scenes where there have to rp in English and go on to look for German rp.

And I think that it is understandable :wink:
In the case where you outright ignore rp that you could at least challenge yourself through, I would think that would not be understandable, and while I am an English-speaking yank who has often displayed that he can only speak gibberish in German, I'm sure I could find Germans who agree with me on this.

The problem is that there is rp and there is elitist rp. If you're an elitist, you'll worry about rping top notch in that other language. We don't need elitist rp. We got rid of that with the account system.

I've been with Illarion for five years now. I've had what I consider good rp with the few Germans who have come upon Illarion here and again who don't even know a word of English. They even took their time and were patient to wait while a translator helps us.

I think Olive is correct that there lately seems to be this selfish sentiment. I've watched people outright ignore that I'm running a quest in front of them. That's fine that they don't want to play, but: don't interrupt and go somewhere else or deal with the consequences of being within my range of fire. =)
Last edited by Aegohl on Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fooser
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Post by Fooser »

We have CTRL+click for this guys, just start PKing someone
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Juliana D'cheyne
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Post by Juliana D'cheyne »

Aegohl wrote:
Lillian wrote:
Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:... the thing is that even if they do, they dont bother reading the english speech or me's..
I don't think that they ignore it, but as mentioned above there is a huge difference between understanding English and rp in English. An German can never rp as fluent as an native English speaking player, so most try to avoid scenes where there have to rp in English and go on to look for German rp.

And I think that it is understandable :wink:
In the case where you outright ignore rp that you could at least challenge yourself through, I would think that would not be understandable, and while I am an English-speaking yank who has often displayed that he can only speak gibberish in German, I'm sure I could find Germans who agree with me on this.

The problem is that there is rp and there is elitist rp. If you're an elitist, you'll worry about rping top notch in that other language. We don't need elitist rp. We got rid of that with the account system.

I've been with Illarion for five years now. I've had what I consider good rp with the few Germans who have come upon Illarion here and again who don't even know a word of English. They even took their time and were patient to wait while a translator helps us.

I think Olive is correct that there lately seems to be this selfish sentiment. I've watched people outright ignore that I'm running a quest in front of them. That's fine that they don't want to play, but: don't interrupt and go somewhere else or deal with the consequences of being within my range of fire. =)
Will happily deal with the consequences of range of fire if char leaves not knowing a quest was taking place. And I agree, have had great RP with some speaking mainly german....it just took us a little more time but was a lot of fun for both.
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Post by Eyda »

Juliana D'cheyne wrote:Will happily deal with the consequences of range of fire if char leaves not knowing a quest was taking place. And I agree, have had great RP with some speaking mainly german....it just took us a little more time but was a lot of fun for both.
And that's the point where the problems start mostly. I'm one of this mainly German spreaking players and I have to say, I'm happy to play with English spreaking ones if they are as patient as some here seem to be.

But what I'm confromtated to often enough is quite oposite:
English speaking players who just run away while I have to use an online dictonary or call me a bad RPer, only because I can't express myself that good in English as I could in German.
I really do my best in both languages, always. But some players seem to take it as an implicitness, that all around them play in English just as fluent and fast as they are able to themselve and this is what can be quite frustrating after some time.

I will continue playing in both languages because I made other experiences as well, but I could understand any player who tries to avoid getting in RP scenes in a foreign lanaguage because it may even mean more stress than fun to them. But they should at least try to get out of a scene in a nicer way, than just ignoring the RP around them, as far, as they are able to.
Werner von Mintraching
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Post by Werner von Mintraching »

Much more fun is, if you have found in the online dict. what you where seraching for, selectet one well looking from the sack of possibilitys, write it in the emote and see the other ignoring the emote.

That stops me than from graving throug a dict. for getting my rp in to the new language.

But if its happen as its been with the dwarf above, that some ask ooc what the word means and there is comes as answer:

(( simple request, if you are not payign attention the to the man wresting withthe zombie go away to another fire you are disrupting the scene with no realitic reason for being there))

than i reach the point where i see, they don't want to play with me, it makes no sense to waste energie to do so.
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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

Friendly reminder wrote:Conversations that are not related to the communication of the characters ("out-of-character", OOC) have to be (...) kept to a bare minimum. OOC-chats that do no good for the game are forbidden.
Rants on the boards are also pretty destructive.

Though, ignoring other's roleplaying attempts is not acceptable. You can always make clear your character does not understand spoken words, but ignoring displayed actions is not an option.
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Post by Dariya »

Eyda wrote: ... but I could understand any player who tries to avoid getting in RP scenes in a foreign lanaguage because it may even mean more stress than fun to them.But they should at least try to get out of a scene in a nicer way, than just ignoring the RP around them, as far, as they are able to.
agreed, it definitely IS stress!!! even for me, who studied English and has been using it for decades now each and every day!
And yes, if possible, one should try to get out of a scene which s/he does not understand by at least a bit of (English) RP ...
... but please keep in mind that there are some players, who do not speak a single word of English or do know some words but cannot form a sentence! ...

Estralis Seborian wrote: Though, ignoring other's roleplaying attempts is not acceptable. You can always make clear your character does not understand spoken words, but ignoring displayed actions is not an option.
... do those players 'play against the rules' then?
Excuse me, but this is too strict.

Some do understand a bit of English but cannot reply in whole understandable sentences,
some simply do not understand a single word, as they never learned.
This has to be considered and respected.



If possible, every player should try to get out of an RP-scene s/he does not understand without ignoring, I agree.
Maybe those you really do not understand foreign language RP, should write down some samples how to quit a scene, e.g. ...

Wenn jemand kein Englisch spricht, es einfach nicht versteht, weil er/sie es nicht gelernt hat, muss das akzeptiert werden!
Wenn irgend möglich, sollte man aber versuchen, aus einer fremdsprachigen RP-Szene so elegant wie möglich raus zukommen, indem man sich Sätze notiert, die man für solche Fälle nutzen kann, wie z.B. ...




#me hears words she / he does not understand with a confused expression and slowly walks on.
#me vernimmt mit verwirrtem Gesichtsausdruck Worte die er / sie nicht versteht und geht langsam weiter.

#me stops, tries to get the meaning of the words spoken in a language he / she does not understand. Unable to do so, he / she sighs faintly and walks on.
#me bleibt stehen und versucht den Sinn der fremdsprachigen Worte zu erfassen. Ausserstande dies zu tun, seufzt er / sie leise und geht weiter.



If anyone has other examples, feel free to post them in order to help players of both languages, instead of just requesting them to RP in a foreign language ;)
Wenn jemand noch andere Beispiele hat, postet sie bitte, um den Spielern beider Sprachen zu helfen, anstatt zu fordern an fremdsprachigem RP teilzunehmen. ;)
Werner von Mintraching
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Post by Werner von Mintraching »

Hallo Leute,

bei dem was ich zittiert hab, gehts darum, dass einer gesagt hat, "dschuldige kannst DU mir sagen was das Wort "shest" heißt?

Er hat das gemacht, WEIL er am RP teilnehmen wollt.
Da wäre Hilfe für den guten PO, der sich mühe gab, besser gewesen als eine englischprachige Abhandlung, über korrektes Vorgehen beim zweisprachigem RP.

Nur mal so am Rande, JA ich spreche ETWAS englisch, mit dem schreiben.... naja das is ne qual, aber dann auch noch, eine Bewegung, einen Gesichtsaudruck etc. etwas, anderes zu um- oder beschreiben, das hat wenig mit Schulenglisch, oder Geschäftsenglisch zu tun. Gut einiges an Übung und das häufige lesen engischsprachiger Schundromane mag helfen, aber dazu werdet ihr mich sicher nicht bringen.
Vielmehr, brachte man mich soweit, dass ich nur ungern online gehe, wenn nicht eine größere Warscheinlichkeit herrscht einen deutschsprachigen Spieler zu treffen, weils leichter ist und Konfrontationen auf grund der Vorurteile die man gegenseitig hat UND der Sprachbarriere aus dem Weg zu gehen.

Ich gehe auch Situationen aus dem Weg, wo ich den Eindruck habe, der mag auch gerne falsch sein, dass ich auf grund irgend einer Eigenschaft dort nicht erwünscht bin. (sprache zum Beispiel)

Wenn wir hier zweisprachiges RP machen wollen, miteinander, dann muss es möglich sein den anderen ooc zu fragen "häää kannst des nochmal anders sagen/emoten, weil ichs nicht verstanden hab?".


Gruß

Werner
Dariya
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Post by Dariya »

stimmt Werner, sollte möglich sein, es ist mMn im Grunde kein 'direktes ooc', sondern dient ja dem RP
ich kann mir kaum vorstellen, dass dich irgend ein GM wegen so etwas 'ermahnen' würde ...

... oder würde er/sie??? :shock:
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Kadiya
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Post by Kadiya »

Nur die bösen :twisted:


Ok, mal ernsthaft: Ich denke, grundsätzlich ist es kein Problem "mal" etwas nachzufragen...es kommt allerdings immer auf das Ausmaß und die jeweilige Situation an.

Zum einen finde ich, dass nichts dagegen, einfach ig nachzufragen wenn man ein Wort oder einen Satz nicht verstanden hat.
Und zum anderen gibt es immernoch recht gute onlineübersetzer wie z.b. www.leo.org für einzelnde Wörter/Redewendungen oder auch die Sprachtools von Google.de, die vielleicht nicht grammatikalisch korrekt aber trotzdem meistens sinngemäß übersetzen.

...außerdem hat man mit diese "Hilfsmitteln" in den meisten Fällen eh schneller die Übersetzung als wenn man erst icc im Spiel nachfragt.
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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

Estralis Seborian wrote:Though, ignoring other's roleplaying attempts is not acceptable. You can always make clear your character does not understand spoken words, but ignoring displayed actions is not an option.
Damit meinte ich alles, was NICHT mit einer Sprachbarriere zu tun hat. Sprich, wenn eine Horde von Orks brüllend und mordend durch die Straßen zieht, so ist es schlichtweg nicht aktzeptabel, so zu reagieren:

Ork: Smash all!
Mensch starts to work.
Mensch continues to work.
Mensch continues to work.
Mensch continues to work.
Mensch continues to work.
Ork: Hurr!
Mensch interrupts his work.
Mensch starts to work.
Mensch continues to work.
Mensch continues to work.
Mensch continues to work.
Ork: Groar!
Mensch ignoriert die Orks.
Mensch: ((i no speak english. Haut ab, ich will arbeiten!))
Werner von Mintraching
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Post by Werner von Mintraching »

Naja, es ist aber dennoch so, ich machs ja auch und ich versuchs ja auch, von "Gern" kann eher weniger die Rede sein.
Immer wenn ich mich drauf einlass, stolper ich als erstes darüber, dass ich mir zwar die Mühe gemacht hab meine "F2-Vorstellung" in deutsch gespeichert hab, mir aber die englische Übelsetzung noch fehlt. Die würde manchem (hoffentlich) helfen das Charkonzept von manch Char zu verstehen. Dann ist da noch dieses Eigenschaftswort, das mir gerade jetzt nicht einfällt (murphies gesetz), die ich zwar in Leo find, mit vielen, vielen möglichen englischen Wörten, von denen ich dann mit auszählreimen raten kann welcher wohl am besten passt.
Weil die Reime meist zu lange sind, guck ich dann doch was sich am besten liest.

Zum verständnis meiner Aussage, nicht alles darf man so drastisch sehen wie ich es hier zu Text bringe, die "deutliche" formulierung soll lediglich helfen zu verstehen.

Ich bin sicher, dass es andere gibt, die ähnliche Probleme haben wie ich, sicher auch auf der anderen Seite, der Sprachbarriere.
Einige werden das PRoblem gelöst haben, aber viele werden ihre Befindlichkeiten nicht kund tun, weil man dadurch ja angreifbar wird.

Gruß

Werner
Werner von Mintraching
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Post by Werner von Mintraching »

ups.. hätte ich fast übersehen....

also, ja ich war ma Lagerfeuer und hab, schändlicher Weise nicht adequat gehandelt, weil ich bis zu dem Zeitpunkt, als mein Char auf dem Absatz kehrt machte, keine Idee hatte was GENAU abläuft.

Bevor ich meinen Char in eine Aktion rein steuere, solle ich mir ein Bild, wenn auch ein irrtümliches gemacht haben, sonst kann mein RP dann ja auch nur falsch/unangebracht sein.

Ich konnte in der Situation nicht erkennen, ob es sich um ein ernsthaftes Gefecht oder eine Balgerei handelt.

Ich konnte keinen Char als Zombie erkennen, sonst hätte mein Char vieleicht anders reagiert, bis zu dem zittiertem Text.
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