Names

Rhandarja Opalin · Post by **Rhandarja Opalin** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:28 pm

Here are some quotes from the "Another name to kill" thread:

Senrin der Ältere wrote:
Menschen
Bonze Brewster (N)
"Vornamen enthalten keine existierenden Wörter"

the player didn't know the german meaning of "bonze"

Bellringer wrote:The name: Justin Nickov Thyme (elf) must be changed. Really: "Just in nick of time" is hardly a correct name for any character of this game.

As a native german, I never noticed the hidden meaning ... and as I read this, I ROFL'd

Rhandarja Opalin wrote:Before doing it wrong .. would those names be sufficient:

Jupp Twoimatj (Halfling)

N'Drang Gheta (Orc)

Mesha wrote:Yep, though I must say in Twoimatj, the last j doesn't serve a purpose. So it would be unpronounceable. Make it Twoimat perhaps.

The orc is perfect, nice names.

Well, at first: Mesha, I'm very sorry about trapping you, please take my appologies. But I wanted to show something ... and you played directly in my hands:

"jup twoi mat" is a very nasty russian saying, it can be translated with "f***k your mother"

"N'Drangheta" is the name of the calabrian mafia

Mesha, you could'nt know this, perhaps you don't speak russian .. and I hope, you aren't familiar with mafia-dialects

Are we sure, that there are no russian or italian players around ... and never will be?

Could it be, that some names, right spelled, would be annoying to swedish or french players?

The name rules are good, as they are ... they ensure good names for a fantasy-rpg. But, could it be that we are too rigid in enforcing them, if discussions appear like those about "Bonze Brewster" and "Justin Nickov Thyme"?

I mean kill names like "hellpwner" or "gmkiller" but, like Arien said in the thread:

Arien Edhel wrote:Stop being so small minded.

Mesha · Post by **Mesha** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:43 pm

Well, I have thought about googling your names Rhandarja. But to me, Twoimatj is only slightly wrong because of the j behind the name, but I would allow it. I fully support Arien in her opinion; We are too small-minded in the case of names. As you said, there aren't many russian or italian players around, and we can't please anyone.

Ofcourse, if you have conclusive proof that someone used some offensive name on purpose, then it is bad. But other than that, I think the players should be less jumpy on some names. And we as a staff perhaps should tell you, the player: "No, we ( or I, whatever ) think the name is just fine" more often.

About the Justin Nickov Thyme-Gate, I still think the name is just fine, and the reference too obscure. As someone pointed out, Nickov, if pronounced correctly, doesn't sound like nick of at all. I, personally, am totally happy with the name, and doubt it is on purpose.

Silent · Post by **Silent** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:15 pm

I think it would be nice at least to contact the players first in such cases, tell them what exactly their names mean and ask whether it was their intent to use them before changing them forcefully. If I learned that the name of my character was a swearword somewhere in China, I would ask a GM to change it; if a GM forced me (just an example) to change it on my first day in the game, I would probably quit the game for good. Nobody likes being told what to do, especially in a rude manner, which, alas, happens often on this forum.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:43 pm

I agree with Mesha and Rhandarja more then Silent.

If the name fits the rules, and the character or po does not break any rules in their time at this game, I don't care if their name is a swearword in swahili, russian,sanskrit what have you.

Also, if people of these languages can not get over the language barrier during RP because someones name is "offensive" they probably are too immature for this game.

Furthermore, I'm sure several real life names are swear words in other countries also.

This is not an issue, its disproptionalized too much and I think this discussion should end here.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:44 pm

If the name is chosen on purpose just because its a bad word, doesn't that show a degree of immaturity from the side of the chooser?

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:46 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:If the name is chosen on purpose just because its a bad word, doesn't that show a degree of immaturity from the side of the chooser?

If someone were to do that, and its not because of a reason that they simply don't know another language, do you think in nine of ten cases they would never break a rule in their first ten minutes?

Mairae Auvria · Post by **Mairae Auvria** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:15 pm

The name rules were set up to assure the medieval atmosphere of the game was observed. It appears some are on the verge, or edge of the intent of the rule. Justin Nickov Thyme and Fr. Thyme, sorry I can't imagine this being an accident! Bonze Brewster as a variation for intended "bones" yes, I can see this happening. Does it interfere with my RP, the first possibly but not enough to matter. I also think after a certain length of time, arbitrary a week of ig RP time, it is too late to deal with the name problem. These players have developed the start of a history with the character and the name by then.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:35 pm

Honestly, Names shoulden't matter.

Heck look at historical names who have been great roleplayers. Its not a problem. I understand the name rule for continuity sakes, but irregardless, a name should not affect RP so much as "Oh, thats an interesting name" :/

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:19 pm

The Returner wrote:Honestly, Names shoulden't matter.

Heck look at historical names who have been great roleplayers. Its not a problem. I understand the name rule for continuity sakes, but irregardless, a name should not affect RP so much as "Oh, thats an interesting name" :/

Hello I am Hot_Gurl32 , a great knight of Salkmaer

Come on, stuff like that disturbs roleplay.

And the whole "If they don't care about the names, theyll break other rules" thing is silly. if they go on a PKing spree or run around town shouting stuff, it'll disturb MORE the roleplay, not to mention you could kill a non-fighter char.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:40 pm

Where the heck is catweazle and sir crystal star anyway?

and come on, Shi Long, Thats probably the best name of the bunch!

WickedEwok · Post by **WickedEwok** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:44 pm

Catweazle is here .P
But back then they weren't so hard on the names at all.
One of my chars was 'Santas little helper' and nobody cared actually ,)

I always wonder why people favor made up medieval/fantasy sounding names that make no sense and don't even exist. What about normal names? But then... as long as it's not "Master Bates" or "Ben Dover" I don't really care if the person in front of me is named 'Fat Cow' in Swahili - for I wouldn't know (Ok, I would, but you wouldn't .P)

Rhandarja Opalin · Post by **Rhandarja Opalin** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:59 pm

WickedEwok wrote:I don't really care if the person in front of me is named 'Fat Cow' in Swahili - for I wouldn't know (Ok, I would, but you wouldn't .P)

ng'ombe mnene sana ...

maybe a good name for an Orc .. maybe a fat orc?

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:49 pm

WickedEwok wrote:Catweazle is here .P
But back then they weren't so hard on the names at all.
One of my chars was 'Santas little helper' and nobody cared actually ,)

I always wonder why people favor made up medieval/fantasy sounding names that make no sense and don't even exist. What about normal names? But then... as long as it's not "Master Bates" or "Ben Dover" I don't really care if the person in front of me is named 'Fat Cow' in Swahili - for I wouldn't know (Ok, I would, but you wouldn't .P)

I had great rp with a dude named sir funky clown.

I didn't even really pay attention to the name until a friend of mine said, hehe that guys name is funky clown.

Edit: Not to mention Korn Muphin Two :/

Bellringer · Post by **Bellringer** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:04 pm

Once you know the name however, it is an impediment. You don't whether to react to this IC like "Oh my Lord...your mother must have been on drugs to name you Just In Time" or you could react OOC "((Dude, wtf is up with your name, go change in liek now.))"
I personally wouldn't know how - because some names, eg Sir Funky Clown are obviously not accidental and should be removed, as they add nothing from the game atmosphere and even detract from the fantasy-realism.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:07 pm

The Returner wrote: I had great rp with a dude named sir funky clown.

I didn't even really pay attention to the name until a friend of mine said, hehe that guys name is funky clown.

Edit: Not to mention Korn Muphin Two :/

If 2 people with bad names are good roleplayers, then all people with bad names are good roleplayers.

Hasty Generalisation fallacy?

Sundo Raca · Post by **Sundo Raca** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:00 am

I like realism, and i find it really hard to rp characters with a medieval/fantasy mindset when people use popular culture or names which simply take the pis*. My thoughts anyway.

Mesha · Post by **Mesha** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:44 am

http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... hp?t=29189

Please, just read the news, and be done with it. The change has been made, you can still report names, it is just anonymous now, and no one will ever read or need to discuss about it.

Just feel free to do !gm and be done with it. The GMs have the actual name-rules by their side, and we can decide in which case we find the name not to follow the name rules, and in which case we find that the name actually does not harm anyone in any way. As said in the news thread, feel free to PM me with any questions regarding the change or regarding the name-rules.

Rhandarja Opalin · Post by **Rhandarja Opalin** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:13 am

This was, what I intended as I opened this thread.

Thank you.

The Returner · Post by **The Returner** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:38 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
The Returner wrote: I had great rp with a dude named sir funky clown.

I didn't even really pay attention to the name until a friend of mine said, hehe that guys name is funky clown.

Edit: Not to mention Korn Muphin Two :/
If 2 people with bad names are good roleplayers, then all people with bad names are good roleplayers.

Hasty Generalisation fallacy?

I'm not saying that. I'm saying a name is not as important as the roleplay.

The best thing this game did was implement a story system for applications, then they removed it, and now their just unfairly justifying the fact that a name means the world to the game atmosphere. Names mean crap. I don't think maybe hotgurl is a very good name, no, but if hotgurl was a decent roleplayer and had a coherent story behind the char, it should be perfectly acceptable.

We have two rules where we need one, we have a name rule for rp and an rp rule for rp, which one is more important, names or rp?

sure, maybe some general name rules are good, but adhering stictly to a medievil atmosphere, in a completely unrealistic fantasy game is a bit lame. Justin Nickov Thyme is imo an interesting name and I would allow it, I would allow Bonze Brewster. I would even allow Sir Ham of Mustard if he was a good roleplayer.

I woulden't allow something like Bob69 or CAPSLOCKISCOOL12912331 probably.

Not to forget, half the names here like Dyluck and Aragon are at least roughly based on other mediums, and another portion are probably curse words in some other language, and still another portion are probably offensive to someones religious beliefs or whatnot. Its not going to please everyone. If it fits in the ground rules, go for it, otherwise then discuss it.

Aldan Vian · Post by **Aldan Vian** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:23 pm

I like the name Justin Nickov Thyme it matches his charecter and hes a great at RP.

Rhandarja Opalin · Post by **Rhandarja Opalin** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:30 pm

Aldan Vian wrote:I like the name Justin Nickov Thyme it matches his charecter and hes a great at RP.

As I saw the name first I thought of this:

Are you going to scarborough fair?
Parsley, sage, rosemary & thyme
Remember me to one who lives there
She once was a true love of mine

... "Scarborough Fair" a traditional, which i like so much. Never thought of something with "time" envolved

But, I think, everythig is said in this thread ... the policy of complaining about names is changed.

Maybe we could close the thread before the "Flames of War" rush over Illarion?

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:46 pm

And thus the beacon of cyber immortality of AlexRose has perished.

The Llama-loleplay-liking thread, the show-your-feelings-Irania-inquiry and the Zieloden-server-state-celebration and the Avareniah-are-you-thinking-what-I-am-thinking thread remain, but for how long?