Small update
Moderator: Gamemasters
Small update
I have done a small update some minutes ago.
However, this update affects a lot of things that we were NOT able to test previously, mainly
* Fighting
* Crafting/Tools/...
* Monsters
If you encounter any difficulties or if something that used to work does not work anymore, please report that on the tech board!
Martin
However, this update affects a lot of things that we were NOT able to test previously, mainly
* Fighting
* Crafting/Tools/...
* Monsters
If you encounter any difficulties or if something that used to work does not work anymore, please report that on the tech board!
Martin
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Re: Small update
Is there any way to get to know what was changed? Some kind of bug fix?martin wrote:I have done a small update some minutes ago.
However, this update affects a lot of things that we were NOT able to test previously, mainly
* Fighting
* Crafting/Tools/...
* Monsters
If you encounter any difficulties or if something that used to work does not work anymore, please report that on the tech board!
Martin
Yeah, I agree.. I just wonder when things will be changed about the fighting when it comes to different attributes, skills and equipment. Feels like only certain equipment is working well right now - no matter what skills and attributes one have. Wondering if that is changing and if it opens the doors for big, heavy and strong warriors who are slow but compensates that with heavy armour. As it is now those types of warriors don't stand a chance against lighter warriors it seems... Not to mention that everyone use two swords (Serinjahs of course...)...Nalzaxx wrote:It's no fun if they TELL us what they've changed.
Guessing is much more exciting!
:p
If we feel that there is something that we need to tell you, we'll of course tell you.
However, our update from sunday was only a technical one which will enable us later on to do updates that actually affect the game. This means that, if everything went right, you shouldn't note any difference to the pre-update gameplay.
Martin
However, our update from sunday was only a technical one which will enable us later on to do updates that actually affect the game. This means that, if everything went right, you shouldn't note any difference to the pre-update gameplay.
Martin
Although it's not really fitting to its title ("small..."), I hijack this topic to say thanks for the recent changes on the magic system. It seems it was quite totally broken before in disadvantage for non-mages, but fixed now (no IG experience yet).
And I am wondering that there are no "flamy" threads about the changes yet...
And I am wondering that there are no "flamy" threads about the changes yet...
- Greisling
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Always and anytime just moaning, Miklorius the moaner. :-p
We should be happy that someone had a look on the the skript and that finally the mages are not the uber gods any more.
Still, we need to think if we really want to force mages to PG even more liek warriors have to do. We need to adjust the system.. fine tuning
Cheers,
Greisling
We should be happy that someone had a look on the the skript and that finally the mages are not the uber gods any more.
Still, we need to think if we really want to force mages to PG even more liek warriors have to do. We need to adjust the system.. fine tuning
Cheers,
Greisling
- Pellandria
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- Pellandria
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First all gm's are like "omgozor mages need to depend on engine more" and now you nerf them down and say "hey its a rp game after all!" maybe the staff should decide on ~one~ way and not change in the middle of the road .
I wonder why the staff see's the need to constantly alter the magic system anyway, so now we got spells which take even more skill/attributs so every mage char who is not maxed out gets more and more useless and people who try to play realistic and not maxed out everywhere get....oh well whatever.
I wonder why the staff see's the need to constantly alter the magic system anyway, so now we got spells which take even more skill/attributs so every mage char who is not maxed out gets more and more useless and people who try to play realistic and not maxed out everywhere get....oh well whatever.
- Greisling
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Actually I am not part of the staff
All I wanted to say is that fixing the bug in the magic system was the first step in adadpting the whole system.
But it takes time, as all developments in Illarion take their time.
You are an old boy.. erm.. woman, you know how things work here.
So, get along with the situation it is right now.
I am pretty sure the staff will think about solutions for the problems the bugfixing caused.
Thanks and cheers,
Greisling
All I wanted to say is that fixing the bug in the magic system was the first step in adadpting the whole system.
But it takes time, as all developments in Illarion take their time.
You are an old boy.. erm.. woman, you know how things work here.
So, get along with the situation it is right now.
I am pretty sure the staff will think about solutions for the problems the bugfixing caused.
Thanks and cheers,
Greisling
- Estralis Seborian
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The old state was a bug.
The current state is what the old state was supposed to be like.
The upcoming state should be like...?
Maybe you can help Nitram et al. and evaluate your rates of success depending on your stats and equipment? I mean, casting a spell at 96% may make you fail at the worst moment possible, but afterall, you have a high rate of success. Crafters don't have a higher rate of success, I *think* it is limited for fighters, too, wizards shouldn't make an exception from the rule here.
Anyway, for me, it is important not to mix up two things: Skill gain and skill effect. Who has the best skills should rule, who has crappy skills should suck. But when the road from suckness to mastership is a long one, it does no good...
Personally, I cannot test the magic system under realistic circumstances because no magic teacher accepted me. Bad RP I suppose.
The current state is what the old state was supposed to be like.
The upcoming state should be like...?
Maybe you can help Nitram et al. and evaluate your rates of success depending on your stats and equipment? I mean, casting a spell at 96% may make you fail at the worst moment possible, but afterall, you have a high rate of success. Crafters don't have a higher rate of success, I *think* it is limited for fighters, too, wizards shouldn't make an exception from the rule here.
Anyway, for me, it is important not to mix up two things: Skill gain and skill effect. Who has the best skills should rule, who has crappy skills should suck. But when the road from suckness to mastership is a long one, it does no good...
Personally, I cannot test the magic system under realistic circumstances because no magic teacher accepted me. Bad RP I suppose.
There are indeed still some misstakes and I will perform further calculations and adjustments based on the data I collected since the last update.
And for you persons like Pellandria and Julius: Your posts here have 0 usefull content. Those posts can be left out, that spares my time if I do not have to read such stuff. Thank you.
Everyone should keep in mind that Illarion is after all in the alpha release state. So nothing has to work and everything can change every day.
Nitram
And for you persons like Pellandria and Julius: Your posts here have 0 usefull content. Those posts can be left out, that spares my time if I do not have to read such stuff. Thank you.
Everyone should keep in mind that Illarion is after all in the alpha release state. So nothing has to work and everything can change every day.
Nitram
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Nitram your post contains 0 percent usefull information, except the old boring "we do stuff our way and if we f'ed up than we can always say that its just an alpha anyway" reasoning.
I really wonder what kind of post one should writte, if you propose something than it normally gets either rejected or noone from the staff looks at it, if you complain that the mage systems constant changes are bad and maybe should be talked over ~with~ the community you are accused of not writting something usefull, sorry, but if now someones writting a long post, how things could be done better, than it will just be ignored anyway.
So Estralis brought up crafter and figther, you can't handle mages like that, if a figther misses a hit, he just looses one hit, that means he just hits the guy the next time, skill and items decide over the fate of a fight anyway so one hit normally does not count.
Now if a crafter makes a mistake he just simply looses the ressources of the step, he does not damage the product nor will he loose additional ressources.
Now if a mage seems to fail a spell, I again take the ORL KAH QWAN example, he not only looses the ~normal~ amount that would have costed the spell, no he looses additional mana and not to forget now with the new "every spell can be interrupted" system he also looses time, pretty much meaning he will die if he fails, a figther does not die if he fails one swing, a crafter won't be ruined because he looses one step of the prodution, but if a warlock/mage loose 3/4 of the manabar, well thats more likely to be an instant death scenario.
Not to forget the mage system is tied to the attribut system worser than any other system, a crafter might not produce high class stuff with just "ok" attributs and a figther might aswell suffer, but a warlock or anyone, who just has the"limit" of teaching can't even go over anything bigger than a normal fireflame and even there you can and will fail once or twice every 8 trys, if you now include an even "bigger" burden for mage chars..well why not take it out complettly after all, altering it more and more into a "only highclass maxed out attribut chars" just produces mages steriotyps, slow and weak, practicly blind people but they can throw a mean magicpunch around.
So its easy: You want to include the bigger failure rate, than atleast cut down the punishment for failing a spell or even set down the requierements for a spell so that non high end mages can atleast use the mage system.
Ohh and why do people always think that mages should only be support character is beyond me anyway, where did you got such impresion, a figther and crafter can do their stuff alone and pretty good while we are at it and now a mage needs a meatshield everytime he encounters something bigger than a fly?
I really wonder what kind of post one should writte, if you propose something than it normally gets either rejected or noone from the staff looks at it, if you complain that the mage systems constant changes are bad and maybe should be talked over ~with~ the community you are accused of not writting something usefull, sorry, but if now someones writting a long post, how things could be done better, than it will just be ignored anyway.
So Estralis brought up crafter and figther, you can't handle mages like that, if a figther misses a hit, he just looses one hit, that means he just hits the guy the next time, skill and items decide over the fate of a fight anyway so one hit normally does not count.
Now if a crafter makes a mistake he just simply looses the ressources of the step, he does not damage the product nor will he loose additional ressources.
Now if a mage seems to fail a spell, I again take the ORL KAH QWAN example, he not only looses the ~normal~ amount that would have costed the spell, no he looses additional mana and not to forget now with the new "every spell can be interrupted" system he also looses time, pretty much meaning he will die if he fails, a figther does not die if he fails one swing, a crafter won't be ruined because he looses one step of the prodution, but if a warlock/mage loose 3/4 of the manabar, well thats more likely to be an instant death scenario.
Not to forget the mage system is tied to the attribut system worser than any other system, a crafter might not produce high class stuff with just "ok" attributs and a figther might aswell suffer, but a warlock or anyone, who just has the"limit" of teaching can't even go over anything bigger than a normal fireflame and even there you can and will fail once or twice every 8 trys, if you now include an even "bigger" burden for mage chars..well why not take it out complettly after all, altering it more and more into a "only highclass maxed out attribut chars" just produces mages steriotyps, slow and weak, practicly blind people but they can throw a mean magicpunch around.
So its easy: You want to include the bigger failure rate, than atleast cut down the punishment for failing a spell or even set down the requierements for a spell so that non high end mages can atleast use the mage system.
Ohh and why do people always think that mages should only be support character is beyond me anyway, where did you got such impresion, a figther and crafter can do their stuff alone and pretty good while we are at it and now a mage needs a meatshield everytime he encounters something bigger than a fly?
Well but it seems you still did not got exactly this point.Pellandria wrote:Nitram your post contains 0 percent usefull information, except the old boring "we do stuff our way and if we f'ed up than we can always say that its just an alpha anyway" reasoning.
In case I consider it as needed to change something in the magic system I do it. You should start accepting this. Its not that the staff consists of morons who do not know anything about the stuff they are actually writing.
Your whole pointless moaning here consists of the point how the magic system is now. But you forget that this point of changes are that things change. You do not know anything about the upcomming changes. Yet I collected informations I can use for the next steps of the updates.
If you dislike the current state then do not cast for a while and just roleplay. Thats what you should do. And spare us your moaning noone cares for.
Nitram
- Rhandarja Opalin
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Girls 'n boys, please calm down.
I can understand both sides ... the mages are strong .. maybe too strong for the existing environment. But we should not do the failure to tear them down as much as possible ... because this will lead mage chars to be not playable.
Second ... as I learned, mages should only do things, that are engine supported ... am I right? So the message "Don't cast and just roleplay" will overwrite this 'rule'? This will be okay, if the mages can roleplay some things.
Third .. wining and arguing about the actual changes is is not useful ... maybe constructive critics will help? But they can only help, if they are accepted and will find there way into the development process.
this game has a community. This community is formed of human beeings ... not robots. It's always better to include the community into to the development.
I can understand both sides ... the mages are strong .. maybe too strong for the existing environment. But we should not do the failure to tear them down as much as possible ... because this will lead mage chars to be not playable.
Second ... as I learned, mages should only do things, that are engine supported ... am I right? So the message "Don't cast and just roleplay" will overwrite this 'rule'? This will be okay, if the mages can roleplay some things.
Third .. wining and arguing about the actual changes is is not useful ... maybe constructive critics will help? But they can only help, if they are accepted and will find there way into the development process.
this game has a community. This community is formed of human beeings ... not robots. It's always better to include the community into to the development.
The community IS included in the development.
First of all, you're all welcome to learn programing. That's how ALL the developers became such. They were part of the community and then helped developing.
Secondly, you can state your opinion here, depending on how you say it and what you say it will be heard -- or not.
You can't expect us to ask for any change here. It won't lead to anything, because for every change, we'd have 20 people saying "okay", 15 saying "NO WAY" and 32 wanting to discuss it.
after 2 weeks of discussion, 30% left the game, 50% lost interest in the topic and the rest keeps on flaming.
This is reality. Welcome.
Martin
First of all, you're all welcome to learn programing. That's how ALL the developers became such. They were part of the community and then helped developing.
Secondly, you can state your opinion here, depending on how you say it and what you say it will be heard -- or not.
You can't expect us to ask for any change here. It won't lead to anything, because for every change, we'd have 20 people saying "okay", 15 saying "NO WAY" and 32 wanting to discuss it.
after 2 weeks of discussion, 30% left the game, 50% lost interest in the topic and the rest keeps on flaming.
This is reality. Welcome.
Martin
- Kaila Galathil Travinus
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Secondly, you can state your opinion here, depending on how you say it and what you say it will be heard
Just one opinion for what it's worth, you can call it an
essay of spam
I REALLY don't understand the "mages are too strong" attitude. Compared to fighters with the same skill mages are almost too weak to function effectively enginewise as a mage.
RPing with the engine (which is I assume is why the game has engine support in the first place) can go something like: cast a spell, the spell too weak to do anything one time so cast more, sorry out of mana, rest or gulp expensive potion (before the change), now add: use more mana per spell, get hit and be unable to cast a spell also, get ghosted.
The magic system was nerfed originally WITH the bug. Now that the bug is fixed there is no change in the original lowering of effects and mana potions are still very expensive. This along with needing expensive props and massive PGing to be able to play an effective (enginewise) mage. Yes, mages can RP, so can fighters. But a mage with a fighter at the graveyard had better do more then RP!
With priest magic coming, hopefully druid after... the difficulty of getting a teacher along with the difficulty of teaching having to go to one place in the game and takes weeks/months to train and the impossibility of being able to do anything but the lamest spell without massive PGing.... why would anyone want to play a mage? Now with the added "ability" to not cast when hit (particularly healing) the ONLY protection a weaker mage has, the mage is less likely to be able to protect themselves then any newbie ig if attacked. Sure the effects of a mage are "pretty" but there is no way I will test the system going to the graveyard to get ghosted and loose skill/expensive wand/icebird etc. maybe others will.
My main wish right now as a mage char? Allow to heal even when attacked. The rest of the spells I figure will be worked out eventually *shrugs*