Silberbrand Umfrage!

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

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Sepperle Gemmenaug
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Post by Sepperle Gemmenaug »

Retlak wrote:I'm not sure, maybe something to do with many many instant lock changes when other guilds couldn't change theirs, constant changing of the entire silverbrand map compared to every other location. I'm sure there were many issues concerning pushed chars and such aswell. Oh how about that time the GM's fucked up Will and Dom for simply giving silverbrand trouble.
Well, yes the SB map has changed a lot! But the biggest changes SB did while Thorwald was King. You know dwarves like to smith and aswell they like to build and so they did. But there was for sure no GM support or something. All dwaves worked or even pged hard to collect the needed ressources and so the reconstruction could take place.
The time when Dom and Will got owned by the stuff because of happenings in/with Sb were confusing to me. I didn't realy got what happend in this time so I can't talk about.
Avalyon el'Hattarr wrote:@ Salathe:

Don't forget the time when Stephen Rothman attacked Silverbrand with a few men and a GM logged on his GM char golem and owned them all in a few hits.
*rolls eyes* Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
Right that was the way the intruderc got handled. But like Dji wrote above, the highpriest Thogrimm had a lot of work to do before Sb got the Golem for protection. He didn't only gave his arm or even risks a permadeath ( would have happened if the conjuration failed ), he also sacrified a fire-waraxe. An item what I suppose to be very rare IG.
Now Thogrimm has to rp a handicapped dwarf with just one arm left. And actually there are no golems which would help to protect SB. Try it!

But wasn't hellbriar supported from the Staff, too? You got a whole, already constructed "settlement" and these magic-teleport-blackstones and did nothing for it!
Please don't blame me if I'm wrong here, just clear my mind up!
I'm not sure about hellbriar but I wanted to state out that not only Sb get the support you all are moaning about.
Salathe wrote:Then there was the time when after the char/skill wipe, that ONLY silverbrand had capabilities of smelting and smithing. Where the tools could only be bought from a NPC that only speaks dwarven, whom also was locked away in silverbrand.
Oh yes, that was a problem till just a few weeks ago. PO Friedwulfa talked to PO Lennier because he wants to open Sb for non-citizen and non-dwarves. A short time later Lennier placed Garabosch outside of the locked workshop and he also gave him the ability to speak in the common tounge.
Salathe wrote:It was quite suspicious i thought... that when i got these tools i was hunted and killed by SB. But it seemed a few grey rose members had these and SB didnt seem to care at all.
I don't know why the dwarves of the older days of illarion hunted your lizard and stroke him down. But I can say that no dwarf of these days would do something like that!
Don't blame us for the happenings years ago ( If you didn't wrote it to blame us, I'm sorry but it sounds like )! Nearly the whole SB community has changed, the was of RPing a dwarf too.
To go on... You have to know that the grey rose was and still is an ally of SB, so may they tolerated it because of that? Don't know for sure, was before my time.
Salathe wrote:Then there is all the godly intervention that the dwarves seem to get even when they are doing as terrible shit as murdering people for smithing. Turning their backs on the island, and people that have very recently put their lives on the line to save silverbrand. Having the king come to town and insult citizens randomly, acting completely arrogant and picking fights with weak as entertainment (witnessed both ghorn and tialdin on several occasions completely instigates fights). Irmorom must be blind =P.
May Irmorom was blind in the earlier days, but he isn't now! I can talk out of experience, he now punishes his race for actions like that. :wink:
And I'm sure you also know that Tialdin was the first and Ghorn the second king. Btween them and the actual Queen Friedwulfa there were also 3 kings! Times has changed!
And we all know that PO Ghorn was a strange guy. May that was his way to show his power like he did with samantha or he just wanted to have fun, no matter what the other players thought? Don't know.
Again, I can't say much about Tialdin, missed his time as king of SB.
Salathe wrote:SB also had exclusive rights to certain ores for a while after the wipe. I got attacked for mining these as well. Another situation i thought that was odd after SO MANY ore deposits simply vanished into only silverbrand territory.
Thats a long time ago too! In these days you can mine in SB if you have a permission and no dwarf will immediately kill your char if he sees him mining without! Just get a permission and have fun.
At the times of Thorwald the mine even was open for everyone and no permission was needed!
_____________________________________________________________

And now after you all complanied enough about SB and it's GM-Support you should think about it! As long as I'm a part of the community SB didn't get anything for free, the dwarves had to work hard for their support!

Now, we can get to the original reason of this thread! Matt cleared his point of view and Friedwulfa will know understand his words.
He wanted to find ways of helping SB out of the crisis and to reactivate the Goldburg PO's.
With posts like Salathes or Avalyons we won't get any chance to do so. And such posts, which only warms up old times or which points out SB is so damn pushed can be unwritten! Because it's not true and we're also not talking about the time years ago.

Thanks
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Salathe
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Post by Salathe »

Oh, im not blaming current SB of what happened way back then (i know exactly why and who did), nor do i think SB gets all the crap they used to. I am not that active so i cant say for sure. But friedwulfa asked why someone would say that SB is a guild/town that gets GM favoritism. I answered with some of the shenanigans i have witnessed SB having.

but as i said. You cant keep constant activity in a place that is secluded, has locked doors, high restriction on membership, and tends to only care for themselves. It worked for a while and i liked the idea of silverbrand being such a mysterious place to all other races, but which policies like SB used to have, you are going to hit dry spells.
Last edited by Salathe on Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sepperle Gemmenaug
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Post by Sepperle Gemmenaug »

Yes, Friedwulfa asked Matt and he made his point. And it's nice from you to show us what happend when Illa was at it's begining but that won't help to come closer to a solution of the current problems.
Give us input how to avoid "trouble" like this or ideas which can be used to make SB more attractive and reactivate the Goldburg PO's. That's the way your experience would help! :wink:
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Julius
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Post by Julius »

If the dwarves were able to do some bull shit ritual to get a golem, Sam should have been given at least the chance to sacrifice a sword or his arm for a pack of Malachin wolves.

Just because some guy gets rid of an arm, doesn't mean that the gms didn't show favoritism. More of a "yeah, we're gonna have to have one of your chars give up a limb to disguise us pwning a player we hate."

:roll:
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Avalyon el'Hattarr
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Post by Avalyon el'Hattarr »

@Sepperle Gemmenaug:
The temple was indeed a building given by GM's in the past for the Bjolmur quest. When the quest ended, the blackstones were taken away and so was the temple building.

@Dji:
Sure, let's just remove fighting, let's remove magic, let's remove crafting.. hell, let's just remove graphics too and make this a text based RPG :roll: Maybe you are playing the wrong game here.
To me, a ritual RP is just the measurment of how much you are friends OOCly with the GMs, because if you are not, you get nothing.
This is not about IG sacrifices and all that, this is about real advantages that are given to certain people over the others, advantages that should never be given since this is supposed to be a fair game.
And yes, a char that has no skills deserves to be beaten, because that's what skills, stats, runes and all of that is for. You can't just make a new char and go about saying "Oh look at me, I'm the best swordsman/mage the world have ever seen" when actually your char can't even kill a fly. That is elitist behaviour and it's exactly what our rant is about.
And I would apreciate if you stopped being offensive and aggresive towards me, Dji. I understand that you have ooc problems towards me, but please refrain from expressing them.
Retlak
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Post by Retlak »

I did notice Dji loves posting against both you as a player and your character. It's not very mature and it makes you look pathetic so please refrain from doing that deliberately Dji.

-Matt
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AlexRose
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Post by AlexRose »

Hellbriar was a quest, that's why it got its blackstones and settlement.

If you recall, later on the blackstones were deleted, and the temple was destroyed, and I think he had to pay for Hellbriar again?

And I'd let my char sacrifice a limb for a golem. When Dom lost a finger or something, Samantha restored his limb with a spell and got a free icebird for it, so you could just do a reverse ritual to get the limb back. Your guy gave up something that didn't even exist. If he gave up a huge sum of money or an uber weapon or something, sure, but if he makes a ritual that can be fixed and that doesn't really affect him except that he can't hold stuff in two hands anymore and he gets a free invincible golem, it's kinda ridiculous.
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Julius
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Post by Julius »

Seriously, some people need to grow up. OOC politics and having grudges against other players is very ignorant.
Caecilianus Cathari
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Post by Caecilianus Cathari »

You know, one time...Brer removed his leg for nothing.
Sepperle Gemmenaug
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Post by Sepperle Gemmenaug »

May Sam had the chance to do something like this?
But he didn't used or he even had the idea to do it?

Don't blame Sb and it's PO's if they realy were/are favorised! It's not the decision of the PO's and as long as the Staff helps SB because of their quests etc. I see no problem with it!
I'm sure the Staff not only helps SB, they also help other settlements or even single chars, but it seems you won't see it cause it makes more fun to moan and complain about SB.

[sarkasm]And yes, it of course the fault of the Sb community that they get such a interest from the Staff because they do a lot to earn it! You should take a look behind the scenes but for sure you won't cause SB is just open for the german elite! And we happily managed it to frighten away the Goldburg PO's so no one will ever be a threat![/sarkasm]

You should start to think about your thoughts! You are not able to read the internal boars of SB, there are many PO's who tries to make it more attractive to play a dwarf. And possibly because of the commitment the dwarven-community shows to get more activ dwarves and have fun playing illarion they got the support!
Please stop moaning, crying and complaining about things you are not realy able to talk about! :roll:
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AlexRose
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Post by AlexRose »

I'm not going to start an argument, but I'll just say this.

Even if I had a really, really good reason, and the support of every other player ingame, I would not even consider invading SB; even if we rped it excellently, gave them loads of chance to prepare and played it through fairly, I would never even THINK about trying it, because I would fear what punishment I'd receive.

That's just my opinion, and you won't change it, and my justification for that logic is because of past experience, which I won't go into detail about, and I'm going to leave it at that. If you feel the need to argue with the statement, email it to my spam box, because I'm not going to reply on that subject.

@Sepperle: Calm down, take a chill pill. It's not like Silverbrand is the only guild that tries to make fun activities for its players. What do you think Hellbriar is for too? They're trying to entertain themselves and their friends. And it IS the faults of the POs, because they allow it to happen. You can't act like you're VICTIMS of favouritism. "Oh no, the mean ol gms push our town, don't blame us!". It is possible to refuse help, or not do bull like "I chop off my arm, can you send us a golem plz?"
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Pellandria
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Post by Pellandria »

Sepperle your posts grow more and more "strange", all they are is "It was all back and now its all changed and no its not our fault but yours" are ya kidding me?

This question was how silverbrand is viewed from us so ~indeed~ we will look at the past and draw conclusions how it might changeand arguing that we don't know the board, I just can give you a ~d'uh~, that doesn't change the fact that Silverbrand locks itself up and no matter how you turn it, they destroyed goldburg aswell.

Sacrificing a limb or anything is neither a "big deal" as there are several ways to get it back as in artificial or hell you just need some good connections to the gm's and you get a whole new body.

Not to add that there are indeed some people who seem to get more stuff granted than others, that is more or less a fact, but Somehowthere is noone to blame for that, sure gm's are jsutpeople so giving someone a little present here and there is simply "human" and in the samebreath its human to nottogrant someone else the same right, you jsut got to find someone, who is willing to grant you the same stuff, even if you got to work more than the other guy.
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Juniper Onyx
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Post by Juniper Onyx »

Back to topic:

In my opinion,
The problem I see is that Silverbrand is a one-race town. Like Greenbriar, Zzyathis, etc. They always fade. Yes, Greenbriar is trying to be all-halfling again, but it will fail too.

The Magic that was Greenbriar and Goldburg happened when I let other races in as members. Kill that, and you create barriers that players don't want to have to recreate a chracter just to come in.

Players are more interested in diversity and traveling and keeping their hard worked characters, than being shut into a tomb. Silverbrand has a reputation of isolationism, and dwarves only. So why take current characters there?

Hmm...hard to grow that way.

As for activating the Goldburg PO's....Forget it.
Half were newbies and probably quit by now.
Half are probably involved in other characters now. I am.

The only way to reactivate them is if a "Charismatic" leader starts to unite them in a cause, activity, and shared community. I would volunteer, but my leadership os currently involved in something else which is doing very well. I don't have time to lead two projects.

Besides, A community can only exist if they are close to the same timezone and language. Goldburg was mostly GMT-5, and SB is GMT+2. 7 hours difference is no good. I told Friedel so when she wanted to do 'Oaths" in person. I couldn't see how we could. And we couldn't.

Silverbrand has been around a long time, but times have changed. There are many places for players to RP, and as long as SB keeps it's old habits and prejudice against new language players, it will die. Yes, there is still prejudice among the old language dwarves. No way Chester could ever be King, so I gave up on that idea. Too many old language dwarves hated the english players.

Silverbrand may have changed, but not that much to overcome old prejudice and reputation. A lot more needs to be done.
Last edited by Juniper Onyx on Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Juliana D'cheyne
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Post by Juliana D'cheyne »

we did everything to intagrate New language dwarves and want to do more
...some of the postings I agree are past.. gone possibly however it is clear, at least to me that this "integration" was mandated/forced. I believe most English speaking dwarves did not want it, and now SB is seeing the consequences. SB still insists also that they will remain "integrated" even though according to my read some Goldberg dwarves are "unwanted"... or possibly just discouraged by events in the not so far past.
2 kings? how stupid is that? We have a monarchy
You want your cake and to eat it also as the old saying goes.

http://www.bartleby.com/59/3/youcanthavey.html


What was wrong with two that worked closely together..had good relations...instead of forcing the issue, time may even have allowed both to willingly combine making joint decisions and developing friendships.
Sepperle Gemmenaug
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Post by Sepperle Gemmenaug »

Why shouldn't they use the support the Staff offers?
Would you say "NO!" if the Staff tries to help Caelum?

Whatever, this thread now starts to become hot and I can't see anything written what would help to solve the problem from the very first post.
I'll calm down now, like you should do!

Complaints can also be send to the Staff, it realy don't belongs to this thread!
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Bellringer
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Post by Bellringer »

Just as a side note, Egypt had two Pharohs, and Spartaaaaa had two kings. It's not such a stupid idea, governing two different areas with great cultural + linguistical differences, with two different leaders.
:roll:

EDIT: It seems the only person actually 'shouting' or getting overly angry on this thread is you Sepperle. Please stop with the exclamation marks, and let the thread remain useful, in that it highlights the problems with Silverbrand and the player view.
Last edited by Bellringer on Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Julius
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Post by Julius »

Chester was better rped then any current or former king I've ever met ig. Shouldn't that count for Kingship?
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Juniper Onyx
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Post by Juniper Onyx »

Julius wrote:Chester was better rped then any current or former king I've ever met ig. Shouldn't that count for Kingship?
I don't have time to lead Goldburg and the Church too.

Chester is inactive for now. Maybe in the future, who knows. Please don't nominate Chester for anything, I haven't the time right now. The Church of Gobaith takes a lot of time, and it's my best work yet, trust me.
:)
Retlak
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Post by Retlak »

Complaints can also be send to the Staff, it realy don't belongs to this thread!
I'm sorry but silverbrand just seems to be one big smile up to almost everyone. Constructive critisism is your friend, we told you reasons why we think this now you just need to note it down and work on avoiding accusations in the future.

-Matt
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Gregory Hardcast
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Post by Gregory Hardcast »

Greg visited sb recently to buy some goods, and although he didnt stay long, i got the impression really fast that i wasnt wanted around. I wasnt german-speaking, and i wasnt a dwarf = i wasnt wanted around. Maybe this is the attitude they are trying to portray rp-wise but it really did have an elitist feel (apart from one dwarfess who greg sweet-talked into letting him use their workshop <.<).

But anyway yeah. I doubt i'd ever make a dwarf with the intentions of joining silverbrand currently.
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Faladron
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Post by Faladron »

Julius wrote:If the dwarves were able to do some bull shit ritual to get a golem, Sam should have been given at least the chance to sacrifice a sword or his arm for a pack of Malachin wolves.
I'll just say one thing to clear some things up:


---------------------
Perception I believe you have of the golem thing based upon what you've written above.

<GM pops up infront of dwarves> Hey! How about you'll get a golem for
some bull shit ritual
<dwarves> Ah well ok.

---------------------

What realy happened:

<player of dwarf playing a priest for quite a while already> *writes a pm asking for quest support in a ritual he wants to conduct with his char, stating what should be sacrificed, what he expects as possible outcome, and stating that he wouldn't mind if it went wrong somehow*

<Gm accepts the proposal and is there for quest support, GM himself decides about the sacrificed arm and deems it a worthy drawback for what they got in return>


----------------------

Sam never got the chance to get a pack of Malachin wolves because he didn't ask for it.

You also do not recall that Stephen *had* Questsupport from a GM back then and had a sword that could (due to a bug) magically teleport you long distances away (i.e. if you got hit in Trollsbane you'd land somewhere in Kumdah dessert).

I'd like the other people complaining about favoritism to answer truely if they have submitted quest ideas similar to the golem one to
a gm or if they have submitted any ideas like that at all.

If you haven't, then honestly what are you complaining about?
Write up your ideas and send them in. There's someone in charge of the Gamemasters right now who isn't "tight" with Silverbrand or german players in general anyway, due to being a brit himself (Aegohl).

Chances are high reasonable ideas will be played out in-game, so get to
work and write suggestions.
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Julius
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Post by Julius »

Complaints have been sent to the GMs about every situation that has been posted on here. You think the same GMs that help you and show favoritism toward you are going to ban themselves or punish you for what they did? Christ, man.
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Faladron
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Post by Faladron »

Thanks to Matt for clearification
Last edited by Faladron on Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Retlak
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Post by Retlak »

*deleted*

-Matt
Last edited by Retlak on Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Avalyon el'Hattarr
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Post by Avalyon el'Hattarr »

Faladorn, you miss the point. This is not about the fact that SB was granted a quest from a GM, but because they were granted an overwhelming advantage over other players. A quest is supposed to be fun and 'useful' for all players that are implicated, so why didnt the GM contact Stephen and his gang to give them an OOC heads up about what is supposed to happen so that they can have a chance. Taking chances away from players should never happen, because it is bullshit.

As it is now, I can't understand why you guys bothered to make this thread since it seems that none of you is able to take constructive criticism without tossing dirt. Seriously what did you expect? people to come here and write "We love you SB, you're so 1337!" ? That is not the case, and I am telling it to you in the most respectfull manner.
Sepperle Gemmenaug
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Post by Sepperle Gemmenaug »

Julius wrote:Complaints have been sent to the GMs about every situation that has been posted on here. You think the same GMs that help you and show favoritism toward you are going to ban themselves or punish you for what they did? Christ, man.
Nahh, wouldn't be the way I meaned!
May your complains got heared, you'll have a talkt to a GM and may you got support too or some GM's will have a special look on SB and it's happenings?
Can't say what will happen and I won't try it cause I can see nothing to complaint about. But you do, so you have to find a solution for yourself!
And I guess you would be happy about GM support too.

Just do it like Faladron wrote above.
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Julius
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Post by Julius »

As I said, I know for a fact that the sword Stephen had wasn't given to him over Silverbrand. A wind sword is not invincible, yet a golem is. There is really no comparison in those two distinct gifts. If you wish to complain and say "there is no gm favoritism in this game at all, I assure you. Silverbrand simply did good rp to get there trusty rock golems to pwn an entire army," I'll take you back to the war with Kalla and TB.

I contacted a GM for a ritual to Malachin for a benefit and was denied. The next day I walked to town to find Jorokar having a ritual from a gm for a shiny new flame sword. There is GM favoritism even in the American societies, mostly expressed through quests. Silverbrand is just a breeding ground for German elitism and GM backing.
Last edited by Julius on Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Salathe
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Post by Salathe »

well stephen may not have gotten GM favoritism, but he got what he wanted by crying, bitching, kicking and screaming. Quest changes, special items, and whatnot

Nonetheless, friedwulfa asked for clarification on what was meant by what matt said and she got it. Let this discussion rest at that adn the rest being about solving inactivity
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Nitram
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Post by Nitram »

So now I read every 5th or so post and all I get is random bla bla bla noone actually cares for. What you discuss here is pointless.

You should face one fact that holds valid, if you want it or not.

If the Staff desides that one guild needs support by the GMs then the support is given.
If the Staff desides that a guild needs a kick in the ass, then this kick will happen.

The GMs work is to keep the game running more or less fluent and not to let some player who want nothing but destroying something or killing stuff to what ever he wants.

The Staff desided that Stephen must not take over Silverbrand so we made sure that this doesn't happen. Accept that point. It were never different and it will be never different.

Nitram
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Julius
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Post by Julius »

Lmao, there is your answer. Nitram basically just said "Even with GOOD rp it's impossible to take our beloved town." :roll:
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