Tobacco

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Post by Christopher..Rigden » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:52 pm

Tobacco

A simple request. A smoking leaf that does not make you go skitzo. Just does "#me Takes a deep drag from the pipe" and the player RPs the rest.

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Post by Pellandria » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:56 pm

People don't even rp normal sibanac...why would they rp that?

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Post by Christopher..Rigden » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:58 pm

I just don't like the forced rp it gives... I want a normal tobacco leaf not a drug that makes you high...

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Post by Mr. Cromwell » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:59 pm

I actually would like it as well. Make it something grown by farmers like hops.

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Post by Pellandria » Sun Oct 19, 2008 4:59 pm

Why not rp it then, simply rp it like some herb from the mainland and rp the whole thing.

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Post by Christopher..Rigden » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:03 pm

You could say just RP to a lot of things. Quite a few people sell sibanac why could'nt they sell tobacco too. It could just be a brown looking Donf blade herb(if thats what it is called) for the graphic.

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Post by Alber G » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:08 pm

Pellandria wrote:Why not rp it then, simply rp it like some herb from the mainland and rp the whole thing.
*RPs you dont exist*

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Post by Bellringer » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:04 pm

I've thought it about tobacco for some time too, I think it would be a good idea.
It's relatively simple too.

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Post by Magdha Tiefenerz » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:13 pm

I have to agree with Pellandria, roleplaying it is the way to go. Btw. I have seen someone smoke in the game only once or twice, so I doubt that there are a lot of characters who smoke.

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Post by Mairae Auvria » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:18 pm

It would be nice to have another herb to sell like tobacco, but would be even nicer to have actual smoke from the pipe, I have seen quite a few characters though that smoke a pipe and hardly any of them have the "effect" that sibinac is suppose to give, they just RP it like tobacco.

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Post by Alber G » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:25 pm

Magdha Tiefenerz wrote:I have to agree with Pellandria, roleplaying it is the way to go. Btw. I have seen someone smoke in the game only once or twice, so I doubt that there are a lot of characters who smoke.
I've lost count on how many I've seen...

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Post by Bellringer » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:18 pm

Indeed, I saw two only yesterday.

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Post by Vern Kron » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:19 pm

I find the auto messages annoying from those. Lets remove the auto messages on sibanac like we did for crafting! :wink:

I see no real need for tobacco IG, sibanac should be good enough. Besides, no one would rp a negative side to tobacco if they use it, it would have to be technically enforced, and that would take time, and personally I would rather see the time spent elsewhere, but it is the dev's choice.

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Post by Faladron » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:20 pm

Magdha Tiefenerz wrote:I have to agree with Pellandria, roleplaying it is the way to go. Btw. I have seen someone smoke in the game only once or twice, so I doubt that there are a lot of characters who smoke.
Let's roleplay weapons. Smiths don't need any buisiness now do they?

But to formulate a proper argument:

The introduction of this tobacco will provide a little more income
for one of the crafts that yield a rather slim revenue for now.

Herblore isn't realy a big money maker per se.

Including another herb (with perhaps a slightly altered or the same graphic sibanac has)
but different properties
(doesn't make you go gaga when you smoke some of it) will create,
if the herb is actually useful for something (#me lights the pipe / whatever #me comes to your mind), a demand for said herb.

Roleplaying is all nice and well, but everything that makes characters spend some money on fancy things, that get consumed rather quickly
provides chance for money fluctuation and roleplay exchange

(Will you roleplay buying imaginary tobacco from another character?
Will you pay imaginary money in that situation then? Or will you freely give real money towards a druid/ herblore person without getting anything in return besides a roleplayed bag of tobacco? If you do, congratulations, about 3/4th of the rest of players won't, people need an incentive to spend money on something, and a little graphic that says "tobacco", can be carried around and even smoked in a pipe creates such incentive)

In conclusion the ratio between effect and workload looks rather good aswell. Define one new item (tobacco) with the sibanac graphic and include it in the herblore script and the pipe script and you're ready to go...

*casts the Llama signal into the air*
It's your call, Llama man!

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Post by Sundo Raca » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:47 pm

I like the idea. It does make sense.. if your going to have sibanac you should also have tobacco imo.

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Post by Llama » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:34 pm

Faladron wrote:*casts the Llama signal into the air*
It's your call, Llama man!
*bursts in through the window smashing it into a pile of shards*

*dusts himself off*

Alternativly you could just remove the auto-#me's of sibanac, and just put a 'random' chance (depending on your body's resistance to it and constitution) whether you get really high, or just relaxed like tobacco.

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Post by Daelyn » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:49 pm

Vern Kron wrote:I find the auto messages annoying from those. Lets remove the auto messages on sibanac like we did for crafting! :wink:

I see no real need for tobacco IG, sibanac should be good enough. Besides, no one would rp a negative side to tobacco if they use it, it would have to be technically enforced, and that would take time, and personally I would rather see the time spent elsewhere, but it is the dev's choice.
Noone rps the permanent negative effects from being sliced in two by a sword either, but I still kinda think weapons are a good addition to the game.

I think its a good idea, especially from the perspective of a "mage" type of character's PO. you want to smoke with dignity, right? Not go all Looney...

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Post by Magdha Tiefenerz » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:13 pm

Faladron wrote: Let's roleplay weapons. Smiths don't need any buisiness now do they?
A little bit of polemic here and there doesn't hurt, now does it? You can't be serious comparing a fighting system with something that can be done by just one single emote "#me smokes his pipe and blows beautiful rings of smoke in the air.".
Faladron wrote: Herblore isn't realy a big money maker per se.
But of course, every single craft has to be a big money maker. I nearly forgot about that fact.
But I have to tell you, that you are wrong in regard to herblore here. There are some herbs which are used in other crafts so there is a demand. And wait until the alchemy system is back. Then even more herbs will be in demand. And I bought herbs myself, paying 3-4 copper for each herb. Don't tell me that this is a bad income.
But you can ask a glassblower how much income he has at the moment with the alchemy system still missing. And what about tailors? 3 copper for a shirt and 4 copper for pants? And you can belief me they are much harder to make than finding one single berry which yields the same amount of money.

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Post by Alber G » Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:56 pm

Magdha Tiefenerz wrote:
Faladron wrote: Let's role-play weapons. Smiths don't need any business now do they?
A little bit of polemic here and there doesn't hurt, now does it? You can't be serious comparing a fighting system with something that can be done by just one single emote "#me smokes his pipe and blows beautiful rings of smoke in the air.".
#me cuts trough your arguments like a butcher.... Seriously.. the same goes for fighting. ;)

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Post by Faladron » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:54 pm

Magdha Tiefenerz wrote: A little bit of polemic here and there doesn't hurt, now does it?
It certainly doesn't, your whole paragraph prooves that fact.
But I have to tell you, that you are wrong in regard to herblore here. There are some herbs which are used in other crafts so there is a demand. And wait until the alchemy system is back. Then even more herbs will be in demand. And I bought herbs myself, paying 3-4 copper for each herb. Don't tell me that this is a bad income.
You fail to realize that the distribution of "who will pay how much for what service" in-game on the different crafts is not a set value of total money, of which 40% will be earned by smiths, 10% by carpenters and the rest distributed aswell over the different crafts.

This idea does not take away from other crafts, it adds a new way of income for herblore to the game entirely with a small workload in comparison to the benefit.

In comparison it does make the other crafts seem less desirable to choose, but that's imo the way to go (if you try to find such ways for those under-represented crafts currently in-game, as you mentioned tailors, glassblowers and the like and KEEP SMITHING AS IT IS. However this discussion is about Herblore/ tobacco, not about the overall economy so your argument doesn't realy belong here).

If there are ways to find new uses and incentives (monetarily) to make
crafts apart from smithing appeal more to players then they should be used.
Don't tell me that this is a bad income.
It is bad income. There are 2904848383 smiths in-game in comparison to the 10-15 semi active herblore/druids. Why are people thrilled to play a smith and not a herb gatherer when they choose to play a "crafter"?

Why do you oppose an idea that'd give herblore one more use pointing out that the status quo doesn't need change anyway when in-fact it does?

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Post by Jeran Malvok » Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:04 pm

Something to note, not a single person who dislikes this proposal has offered a reason on how it would hurt the game or roleplay in anyway.

For my part I think adding more herbs is a good idea as it will help herb gatherers who already have a difficult time making any money from that particular profession.

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Post by Magdha Tiefenerz » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:43 pm

Jeran Malvok wrote:Something to note, not a single person who dislikes this proposal has offered a reason on how it would hurt the game or roleplay in anyway.
Then let me help you with that: Because it is work for the developers to introduce a new plant/herb to the game. Work that would be better spent on other issues of the game. Smoking can easily be played with an emote but I'm repeating myself so this is the end of this discussion for me and I'll leave it to the devs now to decide.

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Post by Jeran Malvok » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:25 pm

Magdha Tiefenerz wrote:
Jeran Malvok wrote:Something to note, not a single person who dislikes this proposal has offered a reason on how it would hurt the game or roleplay in anyway.
Then let me help you with that: Because it is work for the developers to introduce a new plant/herb to the game. Work that would be better spent on other issues of the game. Smoking can easily be played with an emote but I'm repeating myself so this is the end of this discussion for me and I'll leave it to the devs now to decide.
Much of this game can be played purely through roleplaying. That does not mean such simple and easy upgrades to the game should not be done.

As I said, you have not given a single reason why this proposal would hurt the game or roleplay in the game in any way.

Your reason is that it is to small to pay any attention to and in my opinion that is something for a dev to decide, not for either of us.

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Post by Pellandria » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:46 pm

You didn't gave a reason why it contributes to the game, the people currently smoking won't have such an impact on the ig trading, that the herb collecting will be the most awesome job ever, the "forced" rp with one sentence can easily be created on your own and I honestly think we should rather include a drug concept, means the longer you smoke the more forced emotes you get, instead of playing it all off like Drugs are nothing but sunshine and grinning.

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Post by Jeran Malvok » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:52 pm

Pellandria wrote:You didn't gave a reason why it contributes to the game,
False.
For my part I think adding more herbs is a good idea as it will help herb gatherers who already have a difficult time making any money from that particular profession.
Rest of what you said, "I honestly think we should rather include a drug concept, means the longer you smoke the more forced emotes you get, instead of playing it all off like Drugs are nothing but sunshine and grinning."

Fairly ironic, you think adding a tobacco graphic is tedious and unnecessary but you support implementing a drug system.

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Post by Llama » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:55 pm

Hmm, perhaps a drug system could be a good idea... if I remembered correctly I had suggested something before... can't remember what.

Problem is, it'll probably just be alcohol, I don't think that adding a multitude of drugs will be very nice.

Either way, I think the high messages should be taken off sibanac, and it'll be the same as this suggestion... but that's for the nitters to decide.

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Post by Alber G » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:57 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:Hmm, perhaps a drug system could be a good idea... if I remembered correctly I had suggested something before... can't remember what.

Problem is, it'll probably just be alcohol, I don't think that adding a multitude of drugs will be very nice.

Either way, I think the high messages should be taken off sibanac, and it'll be the same as this suggestion... but that's for the nitters to decide.
Was my idea actually... INCLUDING SNUFF

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Post by Jeran Malvok » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:59 pm

And for your information Pellandria, I am not saying the drug idea is a bad idea, infact I would welcome such a system. I am simply highlighting the irony in your posts.

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Post by Bellringer » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:00 pm

It's not attempting to make herb-lore the "most awesome job ever" - the proposal aims to give them something more to sell and do, making their job just that little more profitable. None of my chars smoke sibanac due to its mind-warping properties, but many would smoke tobacco given the chance. I feel that other players may have similar beliefs on the matter, and so there's an oppurtunity to sell a fair bit of pipeweed.

There doesn't have to be forced rp either. Anyone smoking will surely be able to roleplay it themselves, but if the item didn't exist they couldn't buy it, or feel that they could run out etc. This will increase community interaction. But personally I see little problem with the system saying "#me smokes a pipe", it is no more 'forced rp' than "#me begins to roast/spin etc." If you are against little system indicators like that, telling people what's going on, then I'm unsure why you've not complained about them. It is not intrusive into the game, but allows people to build roleplay around the fact someone is smoking - for example, the little message could come up saying "#me smokes a pipe etc." and then the person themselves could say "#me exhales a dense smog of smoke, choking the atmosphere around him" - in turn this could lead to an argument in which the smoker is ejected from the bar, and perhaps some unpopular anti-smoking laws are enforced, causing a small rebellion in TB. Who knows?

Now I've given some reason of how it contributes to the game, especially to roleplay, which you had previously termed 'forced'.

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Post by Pellandria » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:03 pm

Jeran Malvok wrote:
For my part I think adding more herbs is a good idea as it will help herb gatherers who already have a difficult time making any money from that particular profession.
As I said, that argument is useless, as the Druid system will come soon (Atleast I heard it will, no idea if its true) so to change one freaking herb tha maybe brings like 2 Copper per herb, yes that certaintly will be a moneymaker

Jeran Malvok wrote: Fairly ironic, you think adding a tobacco graphic is tedious and unnecessary but you support implementing a drug system.
There is a huge difference of "I need an ig item that I can rp this and that" and "You can't rp it on your own, we need to force you", its funny that all mature content is removed, but drugs like Alcohol or Sibanac is allowed and not only that it is allowed no the system itself brings ~no~ disadvantages, if you smoke sibanac you just have one thing..and that is "Char feels good" nothing else.

I think if Illarion goes this way, than we should go it all the way.


Edit to bellringer: I allready saw people smoke before we had pipes and sibanac, hell a few years ago we drunk poison for beer, those things basicly killed your char, if you drunk to much, but we did it anyway fopr the sake of the rp, something like this will create one thing "Hell the system does it for me, so I don't need to rp it myself" I often see people smoke, most do a "#me lights a pipe" and after that nothing else comes, it shows that noone plays the disadvantages , except one and that was Dji, noone else seems to play it, so if you are not able to play the disadvantages, than one must force you.

What is the good thing, easy, one learns that his rp ahas consequences, the same should go with mana and health potions, if you chuck them down like there is no tomorrow, you slowly should loose the ability to heal /regain mana. I would love to see a few people walking around with "#me coughs violently" or "#me beginns to shiver suddendly, because thats what happens if you take drugs and if your body gets addicted to it.

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