Buying skill points from NPCs

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

Moderator: Gamemasters

User avatar
Mr. Cromwell
Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: All over the place.

Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Some general rambling about the subject.

Let's make some basic facts here. I think there is general consensus about these:

1. Powergamers will always have better skilled characters than those players who spend proportionally more time roleplaying.
2. The current system favours those with regularly a lot of time and stamina to powergame (eg, you can't decide to train "today" and spend rest of the week rp'ing, as you hit the cap on set intervals) over those who play more sporadically or only on certain days of the week or who simply like roleplaying better.
3. Currently, the only way you can gain skill is through investing RL time (t) in improving them.
4. As a by-product of the time-investment, you gain money (m). This comes through killing monsters/selling the underwear you knit, whatever.

Let us move a bit further and start making assumptions based on this:

A.) If the skill-gain is based solely on (t), then the players who are more capable/willing to spend excessive amounts of (t) to further the character skills will have a disproportionate advantage with skill-gaining compared to everyone else.
B.) If you can supplement the skillgain with (m) which the roleplayers also often have, this goes some distance to help them to gain skill in addition to the meager skillgain they already experience. There are characters who don't have (m), but it's not really argument against the system per se.
C.) If the status quo remains and (t) is the only way to gain skill without any parallel system, doesn't this mean that those who are least interested in actually training look forward to a future where they continue to be shafted the most skill-wise with zero shortcuts?

How to achieve a working system?
If we think that basic assumption 1.) is correct, then do we really have to worry about the powergamers at all? I mean, Matt (:P) will have a character with higher skills than mine anyway, simply because he cares and knows more about such things than me. He will have a skilled character regardless of the system. If we implement something which something helps him to achieve uber-level two hours faster than usually and gives the RP'ers an alternative way to increase skills every now and then (as opposed to not increasing the skills) then ..why not?

It's all matter of approach with the implementation. Some possibilities:
I.) Cap -> You can only get skills to a certain point through money (I'm not really sure if this is a good idea, though)
II.) Cap2 -> You can only buy points from certain number of skills (anti-alleskönner)
III.) Cooldown -> You have to wait an amount of time before you can buy skillpoints again, favouring a longer-term approach if the amount of time is also long.

I don't want a system where you just hit 50s to the table and gain 40 points in slashing, but something which helps RP'ers to develop their characters especially when they skill seldom. Powergamers really should have no part in equation when determining the viability of such system, as the guys will rock the world anyway and there's nothing we can do about that. We can, however design a system which acts on such long time-scale that it offers as little aid as possible for your average powergamer.

This, while taking money out of the game. :)
User avatar
Llama
Posts: 7685
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:02 pm
Location: The VBU is awesome
Contact:

Post by Llama »

Cromwell, you are awesome.

Please, have my babies.
User avatar
Julius
Posts: 1961
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 2:41 am
Location: My religion is better then the one Alex taunts you to join! Update: Alex secretly worships me.
Contact:

Post by Julius »

I don't like the idea.
User avatar
Juniper Onyx
Master NPC Scripter
Posts: 1557
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 12:13 am
Location: Columbia, MO USA

Post by Juniper Onyx »

Ok....I know powergamers should like this idea, but I hate it.

Sure, I'd love to spend my "Piles" of money on skills, as long as they would be permanent. If they are temporary, no-one will waste money on it because the 'low' skills are so easy to get anyway, and no-one will pay "Lots" for a temporary high skill.

Also....Q-wert is right. RP'ers will be at a disadvantage here. I've never seen an RP'er earn money as fast as powergamers do. It just isn't possible. Trading is great....if you can find players to buy what you're selling, and that's really hard these days (fewer players guys!). Powergaming skills and selling to NPC's is much more reliable and consistent, and RP'ers just suck at that, sorry.

Pellandria is wrong in that powergamers DO keep skilling past their skillcaps. Mining, Lumberjacking, Cooking, etc. Why? To get ready for the next day when skilling counts, you'll need materials to skill with. If you want to focus on Smithing.......you need Iron ores, Coal, Food, Leathers, some gems.......all of which does nothing for your skills at a certain point, so the skillcap is meaningless for these activities to "Prepare" for the next day on "Smithing". By getting ready, powergaming advanced skills becomes a lot easier to do. Trust me. :twisted:

Allowing Powergamers to spend money on more skills is stupid, because only powergamers will be able to afford the 'higher' level skills that take so much time to get, it makes it worthwhile to pay for......If they are permanent increases as I said. If temporary, what's the point?

In my opinion, finding an RP'er that doesn't 'powergame' occasionally is like finding a Leprechaun. Yeah, they are a fantasy too. :lol:

So how about admiting that everyone 'powergames' occasionally, but just some more than others? I am honestly getting tired of the "I RP the best, you powergamer...so you bad!" argument. Get a life folks! If you mostly RP, great, just don't shove your credentials in my face, cause I RP too! Everyone RP's and everyone powergames. Agreed?

I vote no for this, just for simple game balance. There are plenty of other good ideas for money sinks, we don't need this one.
User avatar
Estralis Seborian
Posts: 12308
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
Location: Sir Postalot
Contact:

Post by Estralis Seborian »

It is a bit sad that most posts focus on "PG vs. RP". After the rule update, it should be pretty clear what is ment by powergaming. Everything that is not covered by this rule is not powergaming, period.

I also see some problems with the brief proposal, as splitted from another topic. But as we have seen, it is at least worth considering ;-). A character that spends time with money and skill creating actions (e.g. crafting & selling to NPCs) can gain more skill by time - it don't think this is bad per se. Nevertheless, money is just one idea. How about other, sophisticated ideas? We already have one static quest that gives you a skill bonus and Keikan showed that it is extremly simple to script NPCs that raise skills, either for money or for other stuff. One example:

A NPC asks the player to collect certain herbs for him. The herbs get spawned in a certain area and get tagged so the player collects exactly those herbs. The player has limited time to complete the quest, determined by a modified rot cycle. Upon completion of the quest, the herb lore skill rises by some points. The quest can be repeated, but it gets harder and harder (more herbs, different locations,...), depending on the skill of the player. Sounds a bit more interesting than "shift click hedge - idle - swirlie - idle - throw away red elder - idle...", no?
User avatar
Nitram
Developer
Posts: 7638
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 am
Contact:

Post by Nitram »

And I think this proposal Estralis, is impressive easy to do and would work in exactly the proposed way. The area and the time are modified by the skill point of the one who does the quest. At a given point it would become close to impossible anyway.

Nitram
User avatar
Faladron
Posts: 1139
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 3:52 pm
Location: Ich warte auf NIX

Post by Faladron »

I want to add something to the advantages Cromwell has already stated about a "buy money get skill" system:

Towns or bigger guilds (mostly the "good" ones) suffer from having too many roleplayers that care for the society their character plays in,
are actively played in the settlement and can be seen roleplaying instead
of skilling all day at the graveyard just to rush into town every now and then to cause uproar and trouble.

These guilds / towns can use a "buy skill for money" system to arm their "pure roleplay" inhabitants with the necessary skills to face the crowd of self sufficient money makers atleast to some extent.

I'll give an example.

The worst case you assume is this:

Roleplayer, spending all his online time on roleplaying achieves the following:

He becomes known, he gains reputation and recognition in the societies he roleplays with, he contributes to the atmosphere of the game.

He does not have the time to go graveyard skilling to back up his interrests should conflicts arise. (Let's asume said character is a roleplayed fighter and townguard recruit, he takes on patrol duties, talks to citizens etc. pp. in his online time).

I rather believe a "buy skills for money" system would achieve (if the right restrictions are put into place), rather enhance this type of roleplay:

Roleplayer, spending all his time online on roleplaying achieves the following:

He becomes known, he gains reputation and recognition in the societies he roleplays with, he contributes to the atmosphere of the game.

The town / guild he dedicates himself to, will realize and support his activity by sponsoring him so he can continue roleplay but will skill-up with the money his town / guild was willing to spend on his development.

So this system infact favors a type of roleplay none of you have considered up to now:

Sponsorship by a liege / a real feudal approach to form bonds in-game which actual makes it useful to FOLLOW someone in power and wealth that will nourish your own development, instead of always trying to be the one in charge.

Edit: A different approach to prohibit pure "powergamer" cash-farmers from buying their skills too easily in this system:

Only leaders of active guilds or settlements may enable someone to be tought (not once but anytime they want to raise a skill, maybe by being the only person able to buy a "Training permission" that must be shown to the teacher npc before being able to raise ones skill and only giving those out to people they want to favor)
User avatar
Mairae Auvria
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:16 pm
Location: the Southern Forest

Post by Mairae Auvria »

Only leaders of active guilds or settlements may enable someone to be tought (not once but anytime they want to raise a skill, maybe by being the only person able to buy a "Training permission" that must be shown to the teacher npc before being able to raise ones skill and only giving those out to people they want to favor)
Idealistically this would be a favorable idea but I can see it being abused.
User avatar
Estralis Seborian
Posts: 12308
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
Location: Sir Postalot
Contact:

Post by Estralis Seborian »

Nitram wrote:At a given point it would become close to impossible anyway.
...or only solveable with friends that help collecting the herbs, just like treasure maps cannot be "solved" alone.

I just wanted to give an idea that "getting skills from NPCs" does not necessarily means "click-click-sell stuff-buy skill-click-click...". Money is just one (valid) option.
User avatar
Mr. Cromwell
Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: All over the place.

Post by Mr. Cromwell »

@Blablabla powergamers with Juniper and others

Like already stated, the only ones loving (even that's a bit doubtful) the current system are the powergamers (gain) and devs (it works).

There are plenty of ways to make the system unappealing for powergamers. It's NOT about how MUCH money you can make: I didn't even for a second imagine the system to be some sort of a drive-in where you hand in the cash and get as much stuff you want. It's all about HOW often and MUCH money you are allowed to spend on skilling.

If the powergamer makes 1000000000 silvers (a medium-sized financial bailout) and the RP'er makes 30, is there difference in benefit if the system if the maximum amount of (m) that can be used within the x-(t) is only 25 silvers? Sure, the PG'er probably would make full use of the system without any hesitation, but then again, he might have gained skill to a point where it no longer is even helpful at all (depending on how the system is built). It's all about design, which can have plenty of other factors than just MONEY = Skillz!

What I would be thinking is:
1.) There is a max-skill cap. (60-80%?)
2.) There is a cap for the amount of skills you can buy (focus)
4.) There is a time-limit involved; the staff determines a "reasonable amount of time" it would take to reach the 60-80% skill, with all the levels of the skill placed on the time-line in a manner which both has a time-limit between buying individual levels (or amounts of skill) and progressing in general. This means buying skills is a longer process.

I do see the merit with alternative approach Estralis mentioned, though.
User avatar
Julius
Posts: 1961
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 2:41 am
Location: My religion is better then the one Alex taunts you to join! Update: Alex secretly worships me.
Contact:

Post by Julius »

There is one reason this idea will never settle into my mind and stay there as an acceptable thought. The simple fact that I spent hours upon hours, parrying, dodging, and slashing undeads to get my skills. For some guy to get on here and say "OMG, RPers don't have enough time to pg there chars!" is probably one of the more false ideals or thoughts ever muttered and recycled on these forums. I don't consider myself a pger, nor will I ever. If a GM wishes to bare witness to the fact that Julius is highly skilled when I consider myself a RPer and have done ten times the amount of rp then pging, then please do so. It would help this suggestion flow more freely with an example.

Now that the argument is settled, let's move on to the next. The entire idea was already stated to be almost impossible to implant, but you guys continue to hammer the nail, eh? I spent time on my skills as a rper and so can you. Believe me, if you really want your char skilled it only takes a few days of a steady diet of undeads. Personally, I won't accept it if someone gets ig, spends 90 silvers on some skills that took me hours to obtain.
Retlak
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:20 pm

Post by Retlak »

To be honest, the system is already fair for both RPers and PGers as it is.

Most people don't see it this way though, because they forget the simple fact that the PGers wasted hours of their life being bored sitting over the computer ctrl clicking a few times in the day. Which kind of fits into what Julius said.

We payed a price to get these skills already.
User avatar
Sundo Raca
Posts: 487
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:23 pm
Location: Conflict inc.

Post by Sundo Raca »

i notice that several people arguing for this have characters with (probably) massive amounts of money. Just saying.

I dont see this helping the 'rpers' at all. Money and powergaming are generally two sides to the same coin. You cant become rich without having a lot of skill in something. Usually anyway.

I can also see ooc types of things happening, where people 'pay' for their friends to have a skilled up character etc, i just dont like it. Keep things the way they are please.
User avatar
Nitram
Developer
Posts: 7638
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 am
Contact:

Post by Nitram »

But there are still enougth persons who can't bother standing in any dungeon for x hours per day to skill. Because after all its boring. If you like it this way, there is no reason why you can't do it. But there are enougth persons who don't want to do that boring stuff and gain no fun of it.

Paying for some "training" would be a good alternative I guess after all, since even those players usually have some ways to get money on non-boring ways.

Nitram

PS: Julius, only because YOU had to stand in a dungeons for hours it does not mean that every futher generation of characters has to do this as well.
User avatar
Sundo Raca
Posts: 487
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:23 pm
Location: Conflict inc.

Post by Sundo Raca »

Nitram wrote:But there are still enougth persons who can't bother standing in any dungeon for x hours per day to skill. Because after all its boring. If you like it this way, there is no reason why you can't do it. But there are enougth persons who don't want to do that boring stuff and gain no fun of it.

Paying for some "training" would be a good alternative I guess after all, since even those players usually have some ways to get money on non-boring ways.

Nitram

PS: Julius, only because YOU had to stand in a dungeons for hours it does not mean that every futher generation of characters has to do this as well.
If you did do this, how about making it so the 'training' only took affect after a certain period of time? I hate the idea of 'instant skills.'
User avatar
Achae Eanstray
Posts: 4300
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:03 am
Location: A field of dandelions
Contact:

Post by Achae Eanstray »

Having my oldest char a lot less skilled then some newer ones not PGing as much I feel I can see both sides of the issue. I ELECTED to RP rather then PG with some chars and when I did "work" or PG with the char it was almost always in an RP setting, doing both. Some chars I elected to PG... and was not bored or would have quit. I agree with PO Retlak, IMO the system is fair as it is now. I also think if you want a money sink, houses, land, items are plenty but also those people that have the suggestions of the money sinks need to imagine how it will be for those chars not earning that money.

I could care less if all chars were much higher then mine as far as skill, I would only PG if I enjoyed it anyway. However I would hope any new system designed wouldn't take away from those times. MOST of the time my chars have PG'd there have been some VERY good RP times inbetween or while doing it. If someone can just go buy something rather then skill loosing that chance encounter to RP I don't think I would like it. Some things in the game would probably never be used either. Why go fight flies if you can buy the skill...since flies would be the first thing most fighters would do to build the fighting skill? I am sure there are lots more examples also. I have had quite a few good RP sessions at the flies. :lol:
User avatar
Julius
Posts: 1961
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 2:41 am
Location: My religion is better then the one Alex taunts you to join! Update: Alex secretly worships me.
Contact:

Post by Julius »

Nitram wrote:But there are still enougth persons who can't bother standing in any dungeon for x hours per day to skill. Because after all its boring. If you like it this way, there is no reason why you can't do it. But there are enougth persons who don't want to do that boring stuff and gain no fun of it.

Paying for some "training" would be a good alternative I guess after all, since even those players usually have some ways to get money on non-boring ways.

Nitram

PS: Julius, only because YOU had to stand in a dungeons for hours it does not mean that every futher generation of characters has to do this as well.
So your basically saying "You spent all that time for nothing."
User avatar
Sundo Raca
Posts: 487
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:23 pm
Location: Conflict inc.

Post by Sundo Raca »

Achae Eanstray wrote:Having my oldest char a lot less skilled then some newer ones not PGing as much I feel I can see both sides of the issue. I ELECTED to RP rather then PG with some chars and when I did "work" or PG with the char it was almost always in an RP setting, doing both. Some chars I elected to PG... and was not bored or would have quit. I agree with PO Retlak, IMO the system is fair as it is now. I also think if you want a money sink, houses, land, items are plenty but also those people that have the suggestions of the money sinks need to imagine how it will be for those chars not earning that money.

I could care less if all chars were much higher then mine as far as skill, I would only PG if I enjoyed it anyway. However I would hope any new system designed wouldn't take away from those times. MOST of the time my chars have PG'd there have been some VERY good RP times inbetween or while doing it. If someone can just go buy something rather then skill loosing that chance encounter to RP I don't think I would like it. Some things in the game would probably never be used either. Why go fight flies if you can buy the skill...since flies would be the first thing most fighters would do to build the fighting skill? I am sure there are lots more examples also. I have had quite a few good RP sessions at the flies. :lol:
You will still have to powergame with the current proposals. Its just you powergame for money.
User avatar
Aldan Vian
Posts: 553
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:48 am
Location: Eating a cookie!

Post by Aldan Vian »

I dislike the idea greatly.It will cause people to gain skill far more quickly then realisticly possible.The powergamers could get the skill from there normal activities + that from the trainers.... :twisted:
User avatar
Julius
Posts: 1961
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 2:41 am
Location: My religion is better then the one Alex taunts you to join! Update: Alex secretly worships me.
Contact:

Post by Julius »

This proposal actually takes more rp out of the game then it does adding to. It gives us a bunch of maxed warriors/smithers/crafters/lumberjacks in one character. You don't gain skill in something in rl from buying it. You get it from repetitive activities. I can see buying skills 1-50 but anything higher then that and it simply gets outrageously n00bish. I can tell you this, there is not one other MMO on the internet that simply says "You can buy maxed skills or skills past half for a price without even using the system."
User avatar
Dantagon Marescot
Posts: 1948
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:38 am
Location: Illarion Public Library

Post by Dantagon Marescot »

I like it. It would be like going to a personal trainer and paying a fee to practice or learn. In the end it could increase roleplay because then people who spend more time rping don't have to waste time in the graveyard. Personally I hate skilling, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, and I refuse to do it. And you know what. Dan got where he is from roleplay, but he doesn't have the skills to back it up because I don't feel like boring myself half to death training him.

I say go for it. Perhaps make more specific trainers for different teirs and in different places. The basic ones are in Bane of course, and offer cheap training. The more intermediate ones are in out lying towns or area's and their services come at a higher price (it doesn't even have to be money. The cooking teacher could want cooking supplies, the blacksmith may want handles). The masters you practically have to quest to find. Hell, for fighting skills you have to fight past some baddies to get to them, therefore also increasing your skill gain. Heck, make it so you need two or three people to get through there so people are forced to rp.

If people are so worries about pgers taking advantage of this, make percations. A trainer won't train you if you have already hit cap. He will look at you and say you look tired and won't be able to consentrate on his teachings. Maybe just like skilling you earn x amount of skill at the lower level trainer before he won't train you any more for a day, where as at the higher levels, you can only learn once.

I like this, let's at least try it. There is no reason it can't be removed if it ends up to do more harm than good.
User avatar
Basal
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:48 am

Post by Basal »

"Buying skills" or more roleplay appropriate "paying to be taught skills" is a good idea. It is realistic to have this feature because in normal circumstances people do not learn all the skills they possess by repetitively doing something over and over, instead they learn from being taught. Not only would this provide a convenient money sink to counter inflation in the game, but it would also significantly add to the venues through which players can roleplay.

Roleplay between characters would be increased if not only NPCs are given this feature, but characters who have reached a certain level of skill are also enabled to obtain such a feature from an appropriate NPC. This would create a system whereby fresh apprentices would have to roleplay and seek out masters in the disciplines the apprentices want to pursue. This would give real meaning to the existence of guildmasters and guilds in the game as well.

I realize that this feature is already partially implemented by way of having the mage class revolve solely around this kind of a feature. A balance of what we have now for skill learning and the addition of this feature would only work to enhance the game I believe.
User avatar
Pellandria
Posts: 2604
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 6:06 pm
Location: Running around
Contact:

Post by Pellandria »

Aldan Vian wrote:I dislike the idea greatly.It will cause people to gain skill far more quickly then realisticly possible.The powergamers could get the skill from there normal activities + that from the trainers.... :twisted:
You can jsut get so much skill, in a certaint time, means if you buy a skill you have to wait like 10 ig hours without any way to train you skill, how is one supposed to powergame his skill, if any learnign from any skill is deactivated?

Julius wrote:This proposal actually takes more rp out of the game then it does adding to. It gives us a bunch of maxed warriors/smithers/crafters/lumberjacks in one character. You don't gain skill in something in rl from buying it. You get it from repetitive activities. I can see buying skills 1-50 but anything higher then that and it simply gets outrageously n00bish. I can tell you this, there is not one other MMO on the internet that simply says "You can buy maxed skills or skills past half for a price without even using the system."
1)With the right restrictions, allready posted by me, means a simple skillcheck it prevents people from multiclassinf.
2) You get "skill" if someone ~shows~ you how its done, thats far better and faster training than just mindlessly doing it on your own
3)The higher one gets the more need he has for guiadence, skill should be avaible from 1-80 or something, gradually increasing in price of course
4)Whoever said such thing, sorr but all your "arguments" are simply based on things, that allready were outruled by many posts here, a balanced system will not allow you to get any skills for free.
It could maybe go like this:
1-30% you need atleast 4 skillups of your own before you can buy another skillpoint
31-50% Two skillups of your own.
51-80%Every other Skillup can be brougth

This way noone can powergame with only the system, but he needs to spend some time on its own with the system.

Ohh and one more thing, giving players the ability is a bad idea, we allready got Mage teacher who abuse the system and use it to teach it to their friends and this would be even abused much more.
User avatar
Sundo Raca
Posts: 487
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:23 pm
Location: Conflict inc.

Post by Sundo Raca »

Pellandria wrote:
Ohh and one more thing, giving players the ability is a bad idea, we allready got Mage teacher who abuse the system and use it to teach it to their friends and this would be even abused much more.
And you dont think this will lead to large money handouts between friendly pos ig?
User avatar
Garou
Posts: 471
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Yeah, I live on the dark side!

Post by Garou »

Much text....

PG is forbidden, but we need good guards IN town and not training outside ;)

I'm discussing with nitram about this money --> skill thing. The idea is good with some limitatons ;)
User avatar
Mr. Cromwell
Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:20 pm
Location: All over the place.

Post by Mr. Cromwell »

Sundo Raca wrote:i notice that several people arguing for this have characters with (probably) massive amounts of money. Just saying.

I dont see this helping the 'rpers' at all. Money and powergaming are generally two sides to the same coin. You cant become rich without having a lot of skill in something. Usually anyway.
Read what I wrote: It's not about being rich, it's about system design and how much money you can actually use within an amount of time. The stockpiled money or a massive influx of money for a character can be made almost wholly irrelevant.
Retlak
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:20 pm

Post by Retlak »

Everything that gets implemented ig has always been limited and restricted down to fair and reasonable standards while keeping a balance.

Therefor I have nothing else to say here, I trust that if the devs bring out something like this that they will surely make it reasonable.
User avatar
Pellandria
Posts: 2604
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 6:06 pm
Location: Running around
Contact:

Post by Pellandria »

Sundo Raca wrote:
Pellandria wrote:
Ohh and one more thing, giving players the ability is a bad idea, we allready got Mage teacher who abuse the system and use it to teach it to their friends and this would be even abused much more.
And you dont think this will lead to large money handouts between friendly pos ig?
I rather have people giving away money, remmeber this is supposed to be a good moneysink, so they train with an npc, which will be restricted and balacned, than giving people something as strong as giving away Skills for free to their friends.
User avatar
Vern Kron
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Post by Vern Kron »

In a way, I like this paying for skills idea.
Perhaps, we could go with a combination of people's ideas.
Some one proposed 'level' trainers, or those who go up to a certain point and then its time for some one to move on. I think Estralis proposed that quests could do this as well. Anouther proposed paying with it for coin.
Well, how about we do a mix of this?

Depending on how far each npc teaches, lets say.. each teaches up to 20 skill points, and you have to pay a small fee for each point? Like say, 50 copper for the first one, going up to very large amounts, perhaps some amounts of silver?
But rp wise, its rather lame that an npc will give you skill after you give them money. So, perhaps the npc will give you a few tasks? I think there is an orc that sends you to go kill something or anouther for some sort of reward? Well, how about having the npc then set the character out on a task. Maybe even the first few for each npc is a 'lesson'.
"How to hold a sword, and proper ways to sheath it." That might be the -very- first slashing skill. Then lets say, after about 5 short lessons like that, They teach a little, and then they send you to go get some pork from the pig pen. They teach a little less the next time, and send you to go squish ten bugs in the swamps. Next they send you to get a piece of fur.. it slowly escalates. Then you finish teaching with them, and perhaps you have to do a quest to meet the next npc.
This way, there is a need to go fight other creatures IG, and not just sit and recieve skill for nothing. But then again, not have to kill hordes of enemies until the later levels. Maybe even able to choose which ones you want to take?

I may have more ideas on this later.
User avatar
Vern Kron
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Post by Vern Kron »

In a way, I like this paying for skills idea.
Perhaps, we could go with a combination of people's ideas.
Some one proposed 'level' trainers, or those who go up to a certain point and then its time for some one to move on. I think Estralis proposed that quests could do this as well. Anouther proposed paying with it for coin.
Well, how about we do a mix of this?

Depending on how far each npc teaches, lets say.. each teaches up to 20 skill points, and you have to pay a small fee for each point? Like say, 50 copper for the first one, going up to very large amounts, perhaps some amounts of silver?
But rp wise, its rather lame that an npc will give you skill after you give them money. So, perhaps the npc will give you a few tasks? I think there is an orc that sends you to go kill something or anouther for some sort of reward? Well, how about having the npc then set the character out on a task. Maybe even the first few for each npc is a 'lesson'.
"How to hold a sword, and proper ways to sheath it." That might be the -very- first slashing skill. Then lets say, after about 5 short lessons like that, They teach a little, and then they send you to go get some pork from the pig pen. They teach a little less the next time, and send you to go squish ten bugs in the swamps. Next they send you to get a piece of fur.. it slowly escalates. Then you finish teaching with them, and perhaps you have to do a quest to meet the next npc.
This way, there is a need to go fight other creatures IG, and not just sit and recieve skill for nothing. But then again, not have to kill hordes of enemies until the later levels. Maybe even able to choose which ones you want to take?

I may have more ideas on this later.
Post Reply