Seperate the po from the character when dealing with death.

[Sundo Raca]

What i mean by this, is if your character is in a life threatening situation, please try really hard to forget that all characters are invincible and can only die if you want them to, and have your character play as if there is genuinely a fear of death (which there should be).

It gets really annoying when an unarmed halfling with a knife to their throat or an elfess tied to a tree suddenly become superheroes and attempt to break free with no fear for their own safety. Im not saying dont try and rp an escape, but do it within the character boundaries you should have set. It makes things really boring otherwise.

[Nitram]

Close to noone players that fear. And thats the status quo since I'm around in Illarion. And this won't change no matter how many write what.

The only way to change is, to include something that happens on char death the player fears. But since everyone was and is against anything in that direction this will not happen.

So you should get used to untrained, fearless and spoon wielding superhero halflings. Its bad roleplay sure. But since noone seems to feel needed to report such false behaivior, the staff can't even try to help the players who acted false and can't tell them what they did wrong.

As player you are of cause not allowed to flame that kind of player ig with some ooc statements

Nitram

[Kaila Galathil Travinus]

Fear though is fairly easy to RP, I wonder sometimes if the problem is NOT so much the "fear" as people placing themselves too much in their char. In other words ooc fear of skill loss with clouding etc. , or maybe just new players not too familiar with RP. I have seen quite a few now go to the cross and walk off as if nothing has happened.

[Djironnyma]

The only way to change is, to include something that happens on char death the player fears. But since everyone was and is against anything in that direction this will not happen.

not everyone *g*

[The Returner]

I've roleplayed chars in situations threatening their lives. It is not that hard.

It is really boring to have a bunch of "superheroes" around, but as nitram said, it wont change, so just deal with it :/

[Pellandria]

And it never changes that the villians are supersneaky, superstealthy and always running faster as everybody else, you can blame either side for this and if one side doesn't step back..nothing will change.

I don't say that it is good roleplay from any captured one, but its neither good roleplay for having a bad thief, who knows nothing of honour, friendship and everything, who suddendly is played like a normal char around "his friends" so I guess you can't tell someone to stay in their role, if you don't do the same.

[Triton]

Es ist nicht ganz richtig das ein Char nur dann sterben kann wenn man es selbst möchte. Es zeugt doch von Logik und realitätsnahem Spiel das zb. ein Unbewaffneter, ungerüsteter Mann, welcher gerade Arbeitskleidung trägt und angegriffen wird tötlich getroffen wird, da er sich logischer Weise nicht wehren sondern nur mit den blossen Händen schützen kann, stirbt. So liegt der tot eines Chars nicht nur an dem Willen des Spielers, die technische Seite beiseite gelassen. Es liegt eher an dem Zeitpunkt, die Umstände, und die Art des Rps.. . Wenn ein Angriff vorher RP technisch fundiert ist kann er zum Tode führen, was natürlich technisch nicht direkten Einfluss hat, aber durchaus logische Folgen haben kann.
Das mag auf den ersten Augenblick sehr schmerzhaft sein, einen seiner Chars auf diese Weise zu verlieren, doch fördert es das Spiel und die nähe zur Wirklichkeit.

[Sundo Raca]

And it never changes that the villians are supersneaky, superstealthy and always running faster as everybody else, you can blame either side for this and if one side doesn't step back..nothing will change.

I don't say that it is good roleplay from any captured one, but its neither good roleplay for having a bad thief, who knows nothing of honour, friendship and everything, who suddendly is played like a normal char around "his friends" so I guess you can't tell someone to stay in their role, if you don't do the same.

Definitely, it goes both ways. But ive personally encountered more of what i put forward in the first post than what you talked about.

Anyway, i know its hard, but kaila hit the nail on the head, people are too concerned about skill or item loss to stay in character properly.

Personally, id like the whole idea of character death to be the gms responsibility, and out of player control.

[Jupiter]

@Triton

Nein, das ist nicht richtig.
Der Grundsatz ist "Ein Char kann nur dann permanent sterben, wenn sein PO es erlaubt/will"
Es kann natrülich Ausnahmen geben, wo dann der Staff interveniert, aber im Normalfall ist das die Entscheidung des POs.

[Vern Kron]

[rant]
I don't see how this is exactly fair though. Sure, you want your bad guys to be feared, but lately, half of my rp has to be involved in fear.. and fear kinda gets old. You can only have a character intimidated a few times before it begins to not phase them, ya know? And if you are complaining about the captured not dieing or some such things.. I would also say that this is a two way street, not for you personally but some bad guys are invincable and they know it.

Person A draws sword, "Give me your money."
Person B tosses money.
Person A the next day, draws sword, "Go away."
Person B, "Erm.. why?"
Fight. Person B runs off.
Person A, "Answer me or I kill you."
Person B is finally fed up, "No."

See how that works? Being put in the same position of having to have a character be afraid, but when a character is constantly being harrassed by evil folk, they tend to get tired of being afraid. Most noobs when they learn the game well, will roleplay fear for a while, and then their character is constantly being faced with it, so they decide, "This isn't fun anymore." And move on to roleplaying like a hero, because there is a -huge- gap. The Villians can pretty much do anything, and know it, and the 'good' people can't defend themselves extremely well, but don't care by the point you reach them, because they have been constantly harrassed. [/rant]
So, what do the normal people do? Always be in fear, or get sick of it and move on, trying to either avoid, or when confrontation happens, stand their ground?

[Lrmy]

@Vern
What can the good guys do? A lot. There are far more good guys than bad. Don't blame the bad guys because you don't try to stop them.

@Wolf
Ghost them if they don't act scared. Ghost them if they come back from the cross yelling. Ghost them if they draw a spoon. That will make them scared OOC. Skills and items, like you said

@Pellandria
I seem to think the good guys can run faster. Ever seen Mark Strongarm run? Ok, but really, that sort of statement is dumb. Speed is primarily based on connection. When your character becomes bad, you don't get super-speed. Besides, I really don't know of many bad characters in game right now......

It is also hard when you attack some on and knock them to the ground because they won't stop doing something your character asked them to do then they don't listen day after day. There is one character in particular that continues snide comments to mine every day endlessly. The reason I don't ghost him is because the PO has made it apparent that he would not like that very much. I think the PO should just think that his character would be scared of getting killed in game and therefor be quiet.

If anyone gets bored there are like 10 more of topics REALLY simmaler to this one in past General Topics.

[Azuros]

@Vern
What can the good guys do? A lot. There are far more good guys than bad. Don't blame the bad guys because you don't try to stop them.

Um, the good guys -do- try, but the bad guys seem to be pretty invinsible, when they die, they just seem to come back from the dead you know.

Good guys ban bad guys, bad guys wait until there's no good guys in town to run in and walk around like nothing happened.

If the good guys actually end up clouding the bad guys, they just return later.

[Pellandria]

@Pellandria
I seem to think the good guys can run faster. Ever seen Mark Strongarm run? Ok, but really, that sort of statement is dumb. Speed is primarily based on connection. When your character becomes bad, you don't get super-speed. Besides, I really don't know of many bad characters in game right now......

Ahh good that you once again fail to understand the point of my post, it was mote to describe that BAD guys seem to make bad rolepay with having high agility and speed noone can match, oh geez now he is pointing a crossbow in my face..where the heck...ohh he just "#me'ed he would have superspeed", the point is both sides fail to see a important point here, with the "bad guys" always having superio everything the good guys start to get pissed off, thus they aswell rp something pretty unrealistic.

It is also hard when you attack some on and knock them to the ground because they won't stop doing something your character asked them to do then they don't listen day after day.

Oh you mean like every freaking good char tells bad chars to stop their doing and they won't listen hmm..strange that it fits so well even if that argument was pointed else where eh?

The main problem I see is we have not one charismatic bad guy..they all want to be super badasses so not one good guy would even think of standing up for them and people normally react bad, if their char is treaded bad. If someone would actually try to make a unique char between all the "I kill yo" chars, maybe than we would have a better rp between good and bad chars and people would react reasonable not with sheer force, because they know "hey nothing will happen to my char, because I know this guy will play fair".

[Vern Kron]

There are a couple characters like that IG... but no names ofcourse.

[Joxia Doral]

I try really hard to keep the threat of realistic wether it is against my or or other chars. I agree there are too many who shrug it off with a go ahead attitude because they know death isnt really going to happen.

[Lrmy]

Ahh good that you once again fail to understand the point of my post, it was mote to describe that BAD guys seem to make bad rolepay with having high agility and speed noone can match, oh geez now he is pointing a crossbow in my face..where the heck...ohh he just "#me'ed he would have superspeed", the point is both sides fail to see a important point here, with the "bad guys" always having superio everything the good guys start to get pissed off, thus they aswell rp something pretty unrealistic.

I'm sorry, I know your English isn't that great. Think about the fact that you word things in ways that are very hard to understand and a lot of time make little sense. No offense. I have never seen anything like the crossbow thing. Report things like that if you want the problem to stop. I also know that MANY characters have high agility, how would you know what people's stats are anyways? You can ask a gm what their agility is and if it is low to do something like they rped, then ask a gm to explain this to them.

Oh you mean like every freaking good char tells bad chars to stop their doing and they won't listen hmm..strange that it fits so well even if that argument was pointed else where eh?

The main problem I see is we have not one charismatic bad guy..they all want to be super badasses so not one good guy would even think of standing up for them and people normally react bad, if their char is treaded bad. If someone would actually try to make a unique char between all the "I kill yo" chars, maybe than we would have a better rp between good and bad chars and people would react reasonable not with sheer force, because they know "hey nothing will happen to my char, because I know this guy will play fair".

If a good character has no way to back up themselves when asking a bad character to stop doing something, of course they won't stop. If you were holding a gun to my head because I made you pissed of and I asked you to stop in a mean way, would you? Who is the last bad guy you saw that just went around killing people for no reason?

@Azuros
I haven't seen a good guy try to stop a bad guy with any realistic force in ages. And your second comment about waiting until no good guys are online is false and frankly, just not intelligent. Nothing ever does happen when the good guys are online. Right now in game, a character that just killed three guards and robbed five people can walk on by as if nothing happened. There are more than enough good players on at all times to take on the bad ones.

If the good guys actually end up clouding the bad guys, they just return later.

That works both ways, but the good guys have a jail. If some one does not go to the jail, they can be reported to a GM.

[Julius]

I fear nothing.














Besides God.

[Salathe]

Everything said here about bad guys, can be said about good guys. So your points are moot.

Lets say this... X players get together and go to grey rose. All members of grey rose are there. The group tells grey rose to get armor weapons and fight. They fight, grey rose loses.

Now... every player in this game knows what will happen here. The good guys will go res, maybe actually yield to the bad guys, but in a day, things will be back to normal, and then a PKfest will take place for some days then it will all end in ooc frustration.

If anything, good guys have the advantage. They have greater numbers and jails.

[Moirear Sian]

As strange and sketchy as it may sound, do what I suggest for designing all sorts of villains (RPGs or fiction):

Don't gamble on people's fear of death, gamble on their fear of losing something else. Making them lose face, humiliating them, hurting their loved ones, destroying their relationships. Destroying their dreams. Making them suffer and fear YOU. This is the essence of villainry. The longer the victim lives to suffer their losses, the more painful it is.

If you want to be a really despicable villain, you have to be particularly wicked and make people suffer, and face the consequences of your wrong-doings eventually (most people will want the happy end against you and don't like it if the bad guys win in the end). If you want to threaten people's lives, you're probably just another one of the villain's henchmen and thugs.

As for playing the henchmen and thugs, Illarion is a piss-poor game for that, playerbase-wise as well as in terms of game mechanics. No offense to the actual game; pretty much every online RPG off the back of my head is.

[The Returner]

Henchmen and thugs are for small timers.

The real essence of villainary assistence is to convince whole guilds and communities you are correct and then lead them into a spiderweb of lies against each other, destroying the peaceful foundation and creating ultimate chaos!

[Juliana D'cheyne]

Henchmen and thugs are for small timers.

The real essence of villainary assistence is to convince whole guilds and communities you are correct and then lead them into a spiderweb of lies against each other, destroying the peaceful foundation and creating ultimate chaos!

If you want to be a really despicable villain, you have to be particularly wicked and make people suffer, and face the consequences of your wrong-doings eventually (most people will want the happy end against you and don't like it if the bad guys win in the end). If you want to threaten people's lives, you're probably just another one of the villain's henchmen and thugs.

As for playing the henchmen and thugs, Illarion is a piss-poor game for that, playerbase-wise as well as in terms of game mechanics. No offense to the actual game; pretty much every online RPG off the back of my head is.

http://illarion.org/illarion/goetter/us_bck_16.php

[Gregor Antus]

Playing Slazf as a good character with a vile and murderous past, I try to show the fact that he really wishes to make up for his wasted years.(about 500 of them) Therefore, when confronted by somebody of evil nature that wishes him or his friends harm, he at first looks for an opportunity to establish a mutual benefit for both sides not to harm one another-in the case of an evil guild-. Is the case of a single villain threatening his life, out come the poisoned daggers. Slazf has lived much too long as a merciless killer; In fact, he has just lived too long. Making up for his less than goodly past matters more to him than living a life of cowardice. (And he isnt the weakest opponent, despite the older age *me looks at a picture of Yoda*) Also, Slazf has some beliefs that he may join his old friend Ghuarnygonff (inquire IG) when he passes on, both him and Ghuarn being fellow heretics among the lizards. Just wanted to explain a bit of why Slazf is generally devoid of fear for his own life. (You can still scare him by capturing loved ones though)

Good luck with the argument ,
Zach

[Joxia Doral]

[quote="Sundo Raca"]What i mean by this, is if your character is in a life threatening situation, please try really hard to forget that all characters are invincible and can only die if you want them to, and have your character play as if there is genuinely a fear of death (which there should be).

I just want to put this out there once more, it really puts a damper on the RP when people act like its not that big a deal when talking about the possibilty of pissing of the strongest active necromancer/ mage/ IG who has many little henchmen to do his bidding as well.

[Pellandria]

... the strongest active necromancer/ mage/ IG who has many little henchmen to do his bidding as well.

Not being involved in this but seriously asking...who?

[Joxia Doral]

Maybe Im wrong... but he is to be feared I believe and though I know wasnt active much these months is starting to show more activity lately... Avalyon

[Avalyon el'Hattarr]

Heh, trust me, I've seen worse since I first started playing so I can say that I'm not that pissed about these situations any more. I mean, once I was playing a great demon for this quest, where the most powerful mages of Gobiath were suppose to perform a ritual and send me back. When I first thoguht of this quest I said to myself to do this with no cloudings whatsoever and only work trough good RP. Perhaps some still remember it how people were comming to slash at me like crazy even though the mages were playing being afraid and such.. but, meh... until we get a big skill loss upon death, or Lord-knows-what to scare this type of people, we'll always have them. A ultima engine game had this thing where every char had a limited, random and hidden number of lives after which the 'final' death took place. Never saw fights about fearing death on their forums. Maybe we should follow their example.

[Rugh'toh]

A ultima engine game had this thing where every char had a limited, random and hidden number of lives after which the 'final' death took place. Never saw fights about fearing death on their forums. Maybe we should follow their example.

I like that idea. I would slighlty change that not to a final death, but to temporary bans of the particular char to log in. 1 week or so.

[The Returner]

Final death after 50 dies

Extra 100 dies for people who donate their 10 euros.

[Mr. Cromwell]

I find it sad/funny that people think a "death system" is the magical solution to somehow make the crying about dying (especially a system which introduces some draconian punishment for dying) disappear. It's not the system which is bitching, the players are.

Another question entirely is, whether the uber-character players themselves are able to play their characters in fright or fear of death. If the answer is negative (and from my personal experience this often seems to be the case), then maybe it's time to look into the mirror for problems.

PS. A snowball's chance in hell until magic system is reworked and magic resistance actually works, imho.

PPS. All those advocating final death are more than free to delete their own characters after clouding. Attaboy.

[The Returner]

I find it sad/funny that people think a "death system" is the magical solution to somehow make the crying about dying (especially a system which introduces some draconian punishment for dying) disappear. It's not the system which is bitching, the players are.

Sure, but with the death system, the players are done, gone, then they come on the forums and call the staff horrible names and keikan bans them and we never see them again.

I just made a joke. Above there, see it, laugh at it. It was a donation joke.

Another question entirely is, whether the uber-character players themselves are able to play their characters in fright or fear of death. If the answer is negative (and from my personal experience this often seems to be the case), then maybe it's time to look into the mirror for problems.

Blaming the players however will not get anyone anywhere, neither will reworking any systems. This problem happens in almost every game, ever made online. You can't fix it.

PPS. All those advocating final death are more than free to delete their own characters after clouding. Attaboy.

I've had two characters die after their first and only clouding.