The nasty Wordlist

[Olive]

i am perfectly in agreementthattrue aethistic characters are not really plausible, but a more agnostic approach, a perosn who is not really sure about say.. which gods muight actually exist versus ones that are more mythical in nature is entirely believable

[Cliu Beothach]

Atheism is hardly new, nor is any real religious idea. Even with the fantastical stuff ingame, doesn't mean you can't have a variety of outlooks on it.

[Colin Smalls]

i am perfectly in agreementthattrue aethistic characters are not really plausible, but a more agnostic approach, a perosn who is not really sure about say.. which gods muight actually exist versus ones that are more mythical in nature is entirely believable

Ive already tried such a character, and he just got laughed at.

[Cliu Beothach]

i am perfectly in agreementthattrue aethistic characters are not really plausible, but a more agnostic approach, a perosn who is not really sure about say.. which gods muight actually exist versus ones that are more mythical in nature is entirely believable

Ive already tried such a character, and he just got laughed at.

So?

[Colin Smalls]

So im just warning her about potentially crappy rp

[Cliu Beothach]

So im just warning her about potentially crappy rp

How is another character laughing at you a sign of any form on crappy rp?

[AlexRose]

We have magic or?
We got people shouting spells left and right, that is the "gods power" I think playing someone who does ~not~ believe gods at all..that is just bad roleplay, the simple exstence of demons and dragons should be more than a sign that gods really exist, no matter if one see's them.

Just like the existence of our universe is the proof of God or Allah or Vishnu or whoever anyone worships? Not very reliable proof, is it?

[Colin Smalls]

So im just warning her about potentially crappy rp

How is another character laughing at you a sign of any form on crappy rp?

Im not going to type out word for word what happened. Just take my word for it when i say the rp was bad.

[Pellandria]

Just like the existence of our universe is the proof of God or Allah or Vishnu or whoever anyone worships? Not very reliable proof, is it?

Didn't knew our univers houses creatures like dragons or demons or that everyone and their dog could throw fireballs, heal wounds and summon skeletons with speaking a few words and concentrating really hard..

[Cliu Beothach]

Just like the existence of our universe is the proof of God or Allah or Vishnu or whoever anyone worships? Not very reliable proof, is it?

Didn't knew our univers houses creatures like dragons or demons or that everyone and their dog could throw fireballs, heal wounds and summon skeletons with speaking a few words and concentrating really hard..

Didn't know you tried to restate what he was arguing against without any other point.

[Pellandria]

bwcause thereis no other point needed in a fantasy world where creations by a higher live form are clearly viwsible, mind you magic could never be explained via science.
He should better post up some valid points instead of saying that scientificly explained way of our life would simply fit to the ways of illarion.

[Deinarious]

My two cents-

Wordlists are like namelists - useless because someone with an IQ higher than 75 will find a way around it. Trust this when it comes from the keyboard of one who has an IQ much higher (39 points higher) than that.

And FYI, 75 is maximum for retardation. Anything higher and you have a "slightly below average IQ".

-end of my two cents.

[Cliu Beothach]

bwcause thereis no other point needed in a fantasy world where creations by a higher live form are clearly viwsible, mind you magic could never be explained via science.
He should better post up some valid points instead of saying that scientificly explained way of our life would simply fit to the ways of illarion.

No, he's saying these "proofs" are not such. Its not entirely implausible to think up another explanation for these things. And they live in the world with dragons/mythical creatures. They don't know about any other kind of world from it, so while the mythical explanations behind them include the Gods to them, living in a world with them is no huge proof to Gods. Nor is magic.

[Olive]

lets notget into an IQ contest please.

how about we all just agree that we should tryto use appropriate language and not speak as if we are 21t century people, but instead more akin to say rennesaince era people

[AlexRose]

bwcause thereis no other point needed in a fantasy world where creations by a higher live form are clearly viwsible, mind you magic could never be explained via science.
He should better post up some valid points instead of saying that scientificly explained way of our life would simply fit to the ways of illarion.

... Those creations are normal in illarion; magic and demons and dragons are normal things. Just because they're strange to us doesn't mean they're strange to our characters; they're just as normal as humans and trees, and likewise dwarves and elves and lizards are also normal. Just because Earth doesn't have these creatures doesn't make them proof of a god. They're as much proof as a god as humans, birds, fish etc. are proof of a god in rl.

[Pellandria]

Still doesn't explain "where" they come from nor does it explain "how" magic works, the simple fact that "it is normal" doesn't mean that it should be taken as such.

Let us get back to our medieval times, alchemists and such who simply used explosions or other ingredients that burn different or any kind of "unnatural" thing was called magic, now we go back to illarion, we got like hmm I guess 30% mages all in all, maybe more, but this is still a minority and mages should know that gods exist.

Now we got mages with spells and most of them cast them just anywhere so everyone should by now know that there is magic and only a few can use it, even thougth they say its in everything, now taken in account that most people in illarion should normally dumb like bread they would believe an superior being like a mage, face it would evryone play like the history intended, means only blue blood and mages or priests with higher education noone ever would question that gods live, as I will repeat myself now but I will say it anyway, the point is that, even thougth its normal, no one can eyplain it, leaving the explanation that "its the gods work" the closest and most acceptable for the dumb masses and for those who are higher educated , as these allready know its true.

[Cliu Beothach]

Still doesn't explain "where" they come from nor does it explain "how" magic works, the simple fact that "it is normal" doesn't mean that it should be taken as such.

Let us get back to our medieval times, alchemists and such who simply used explosions or other ingredients that burn different or any kind of "unnatural" thing was called magic, now we go back to illarion, we got like hmm I guess 30% mages all in all, maybe more, but this is still a minority and mages should know that gods exist.

Now we got mages with spells and most of them cast them just anywhere so everyone should by now know that there is magic and only a few can use it, even thougth they say its in everything, now taken in account that most people in illarion should normally dumb like bread they would believe an superior being like a mage, face it would evryone play like the history intended, means only blue blood and mages or priests with higher education noone ever would question that gods live, as I will repeat myself now but I will say it anyway, the point is that, even thougth its normal, no one can eyplain it, leaving the explanation that "its the gods work" the closest and most acceptable for the dumb masses and for those who are higher educated , as these allready know its true.

We never argued that a mythical take for explaining the world is BAD, we are saying another way is just as fine.

You were saying if magic existed, it be hard to explain it without Gods, but to them its a fact of the world. Alchemy was somewhat a proto-science, not a pure religious practice, and they certainly had more than mythical explanations.

[AlexRose]

Yes, it's the cheap explanation; doesn't mean everyone will buy into it.

[Pellandria]

Still atheist would have no real arguments against the gods, as the theory of evolution doesn't work with illarion, except you want to say that every race is some kind of mutation form the humans or elves or whatever.

The fact that education should be only forthose who could afford it or got a "talent" leaves the masses still without a clue, if there would be one main point ..one "big" explanation to everything living and thus explanations about the yellow crosses and how these work, without involving gods, than you amybe have a point, but anything else is just simply not "there" atheismus is created on facts not on "Hey lets don't believe in that because we want to"

the alchemist argument, as we today know alchemist used ingredients or other kidns of illusion, the fact that mages in illarion don't use anything else than words and wave there hands around thus eliminates this argument.

[AlexRose]

Oh yeah, cos it's impossible that someone could be undecided.

Never heard of agnostics?

[Cliu Beothach]

Still atheist would have no real arguments against the gods, as the theory of evolution doesn't work with illarion, except you want to say that every race is some kind of mutation form the humans or elves or whatever.

The fact that education should be only forthose who could afford it or got a "talent" leaves the masses still without a clue, if there would be one main point ..one "big" explanation to everything living and thus explanations about the yellow crosses and how these work, without involving gods, than you amybe have a point, but anything else is just simply not "there" atheismus is created on facts not on "Hey lets don't believe in that because we want to"

Natural atheology is not dependent on modern explanations. You're confusing atheism with science, these are not one and the same. It is perfectly reasonably to come up with a few arguments against some Gods, or see past them.

In fact, the point is that a mythical outlook on religion is bland and boring, and thats what you are proposing. Currently, the religion in game is bland and boring.

[Pellandria]

Strange that you argue with the "magic is normal in illarion" and now completly turn it around with saying that it would be unknowable, the fact that the "afterlife" is indeed present in illarion (undeads, people coming back from death, crosses heaing grave wounds) eliminates that aswell, believing in gods hould be "normal" and argumenting with believings caused by reallife is simply nonsense, someone who would doubt the gods should normally come up with any explanation of how things work, having someone doubting and while someone clearly ~shows~ him the might of the gods, nothing else is arcane magic, is and allways will be bad rp, unless you play your guy overall doubtfull and unable to grasp the "reality".

Well once again I ask you for any kind of explanation a char would come up with.

[Cliu Beothach]

I never said it would be unknowable, it seems you cannot grasp my points. You misunderstand the use of normal to, not to say it isn't fantastic to them, but it is almost common knowledge.

There are other ways to look at these phenomenon. As I said, all your doing is describing a mythical outlook, but it isn't impossible nor foolish, to have another one.

The dead are merely cursed, magic is present, you dont have to blame Gods for these curses.

Crosses could have some properties.

You don't need to come up with a reason for every phenomenon (Hell, we can't even to this day in our world), but the idea of atheism is NOT foolish. Religious/Non-Religious dilemmas exist in our world today, why not then?

[AlexRose]

Could just see it as magic that resurrects them, and magic is unexplained. Maybe they wouldn't give a thought, like noone gave a thought to gravity.

[Pellandria]

That unknowable was aimed towards alex not you.

But after all you still seem unable to name exactly why or how someone should have a doubt, I don't doubt that there are people, who don't believe in it, but still the fact that there are unexplainable things and there are things that almost seem common and still unexplainable simply would throw someone in the "gods exist" corner.

You can turn and twist it like you want, the "elite" of Illarion wll always tell people that gods exist, the mass of people will also believe such, but with no reale xplanation one can not back up his own words, unless he wants to make a fool out of himself and the fact that noone would believe him and I think the generel "peer pressure" will more likely make the char a hermit and with that useless to play, atleast in my opinion, so you are free to play an atheist, even if I still think there are no doubts that gods live in illarion, but later on one can't complain when noone gives a"shit" about the chars words, which most likely will happen.

"noone gave thougths about gravity" seriously, you maybe should look it up, at a certaint pont of education people start to research things and every research aimed towards magic will simply shed one result:" created by gods"(gotta imagen "productintags" on scelletons and crosses)

[Cliu Beothach]

There are things in our current world that are unexplainable, this doesn't stop some people from believing in Gods/God or people not believing. Even before a more strict view of science came into perspective did Natural Theology and Atheism exist.

Once again, I will reiterate! Believing in the Gods is not bad rp, neither is not believing. Its not about what the majority believe, its about explaining that its perfectly REASONABLE for someone to believe in a sole god, or no god.

[Mr. Cromwell]

I think Irmorom made a show during the founding-ceremony of Silverbrand. Cannot be certain anymore (I think it was in german) and endless years ago, but anyway.

The rest of Illarion might be godless, but the Dwarves can be certain of their Salvation.

[Colin Smalls]

How did this turn into a pseudo religious argument anyway? Thought it was about words.

<.<

[Cliu Beothach]

One of the words was about religion.

[Llama]

Could just see it as magic that resurrects them, and magic is unexplained. Maybe they wouldn't give a thought, like noone gave a thought to gravity.

Because Oldra loves us, and she wants to keep us close to her?