The community as a whole

[Julius]

Well, not only the chars you tend to play and the roles they play are perfect. There are some poorly played bandits out there, don't get me wrong, I've seen them. But I hate for people to call someone's rp redundant when it's actually decent and fun to rp along with.

As a matter of factly, the best rp I had in ages was the Kidnapping scene, excluding the OOC.

[Lrmy]

I'm just wondering why anyone cares who wares a hood in game and who doesn't?

Sure, I have a character that likes to be concealed and rob people. He has robbed one person with success. The other 50 attempts made me chase them or cloud them. Let's speak about how pissed the bad guys get when all of the people they (attempt to) rob get away and alert the guards that they just saw a character looking like ((XXXXXXXXX)) then the guard sees you wearing a cloak(because the character that got away made you wanted in town). Then the guard says HALT! you look suspicious. Makes me think HALT! your RP looks suspicious.

But, when do that bad guys complain initially about the good guy's...not often.

[abcfantasy]

That's no reason why the bad guys should just not care then and ruin the fun of everyone. If an amount of players have reacted badly when you tried to be "kind", that does mean you'll just play dirty and all with everyone then.

Why caring who wears a hood? Let's see, probably 4 of the 5 hooded figures my char last saw were criminals who attempted a kidnap/robbery/attack/etc...
It's logical that he would care then.

[Lrmy]

That's no reason why the bad guys should just not care then and ruin the fun of everyone. If an amount of players have reacted badly when you tried to be "kind", that does mean you'll just play dirty and all with everyone then.

Why caring who wears a hood? Let's see, probably 4 of the 5 hooded figures my char last saw were criminals who attempted a kidnap/robbery/attack/etc...
It's logical that he would care then.

Missed my point...

Who says everyone's fun is ruined? Maybe yours and a few select people you Rp with.

Just out of curiosity, why play a guard/knight when you hate "bad guys" Rp and think it ruins your fun?

[abcfantasy]

I don't -hate- bad guys RP, neither is my fun -always- ruined. But despite those times, I can't seem to manage to have as much fun with another char as I do with him as a Knight.

What bothers me at times is that it just seems whenever I try to do something, it's actually impossible to get anything done. Note: "at times", not always.

[Korm Kormsen]

julius is right. going hooded in itself is not bad RP.

but using the OOC knowledge, that the confronting guard is not high skilled, and therefore ignoring his orders is bad RP.
why? because it takes away the possibility of the guard's PO to roleplay a guard.
it forces the PO of the guard, to play either a coward, or a suicidal char.
and this behaviour is based only on the ooc knowledge to have the higher skilled char.
i would even go a step further, and call it bad RP, if a known criminal char enters a town alone.
in our gameworld we have to assume a couple of things. one of these things is the nature of towns.
with that i mean, we have to assume, that towns have a certain permanent poblation. not only half a dozen persons, that are present for an hour or two.
but if we assume, that towns are poblated, it seems ridiculous, that some chars simply negate the orders of guards, instead of fleeing.

julius, RP is not just making two emotes before engine-fighting.

korm
.

[Faladron]

in our gameworld we have to assume a couple of things. one of these things is the nature of towns.

Not at all do we have to assume that.
I could assume there are two dozen people in that population that like my character and have sworn allegiance to him till their death, so everyone must bow before me now?
If you don't like that and don't want to play along, maybe even claim that it isn't that way, that's fine with me, but who is right if we both made nothing more than assumptions?

You can not assume things like that that would influence a lot of other characters just because it is your understanding of the gameworld,
the only one who could do so is a gamemaster and they usually don't meddle much in IG affairs like that.

[Korm Kormsen]

Not at all do we have to assume that.

well, in that case we got just two possibilities:
either we say, there are no towns.
because the only reason for people to live in a town (in a world like illarion) would be safety. the safety of numbers.
if the towns are wide open to crime, then they do not function. away with them!

or we let the devs make townguards in "baldur's gate" style.

[Faladron]

Dein Argument hinkt leider, ich glaube auf Englisch bekomm ich das nicht richtig hin:

Wenn du sagst, es gibt mehr Leute in der Stadt als die Charaktere und einer von ihnen heißt Hans und hat schwarze Haare, ich behaupte aber das Hans rote Haare hat,
wer von uns beiden hat dann Recht?

Wessen Wort soll da mehr Gewicht erhalten?
Das von Spieler Korm oder von Spieler Faladron?

Nur weil es Dinge gibt die für dich, und für andere auch, mich eingeschlossen, schlüssig sind, kannst du leider noch lange nicht erwarten dass alle andere Spieler deine Ansichten und Gepflogenheiten was RP betrifft (so nachvollziehbar sie auch sein mögen) übernehmen,
da es, alle Argumente mal weggelassen, im Endeffekt nur die Meinung eines Spielers gegenüber der Meinung eines anderen Spielers ist,
und da gilt jede Meinung immernoch gleich viel, egal wie unlogisch sie der Gegenseite erscheint, deswegen gibts ja hier auch soviele Reibereien unter den Spielern wegen dem RP.

Ich wollte mit meinem Post nur klarstellen, dass der einzige der solche Dinge für alle Spieler bindend festlegen könnte, ein GM wäre, egal wie logisch und schlüssig der Vorschlag von dir ist, es wird sich immer jemand finden, der es nicht so sieht.

[Lrmy]

or we let the devs make townguards in "baldur's gate" style.

What's wrong with that?

Further on the subject. When my character is a part of 20 other people that share common goals/objectives why would my character care if you have 12 or so guards?

[Korm Kormsen]

ja, jetzt verstehe ich deinen standpunkt.

bleibt also aus meiner sicht nur:
Korm Kormsen hat folgendes geschrieben::

or we let the devs make townguards in "baldur's gate" style.

Further on the subject. When my character is a part of 20 other people that share common goals/objectives why would my character care if you have 12 or so guards?

right. if your char is accompanied by 20 friends, it would be logical, that he defies any guards orders.
what i wrote above was meant for situations, where one single wanted char enters town. (or even maybe two) not for a "rebellion" or "invasion" like situation.

as i wrote above, i am assuming poblated towns. otherwise towns are senseless.

[Lrmy]

Korm, let's say I go into a town with 20 people in game. Maybe 15 of them won't care what I do as long as it doesn't affect them, one of them might try and help me and 4 of them might try and stop me. When 1 of the four is a young girl, one will run off if I as much as pull a blade out and the other two will only fight me if they are in a group. Does that sound like good odds for me? Yes. Not to mention, by the time more people that would stop me got around, I could easily leave the scene. Most characters think that guards in Bane are little short of a joke. Throw magical artifacts, portals and a strong sense for the gods and you have no assumption of what will happen.

[Rhianna Morgan]

I think you still did not get the point. If you assume that your char enters a so-called TOWN then you should also assume that he thinks that there are more than 20 people around because "20 other players are ingame" is an OOC information that your char has not. So even if it is a very silent and peaceful day in town, your char must think of a logical consequence of going in there: HE WILL BE SEEN and if he is a well-known criminal that should affect to him.

Because even if there are only two persons that would fight against him, he can't know that before.

The 15 chars that do not care as long as it does not affect to them is nothing your char would think of. Instead of that, he would think of the possibility of being caught and sent to prison as soon as he enters a town because even the gate-guards would ask for his face as soon as he passes them (not to mention the always-drunk at Bane's North Gate). So an intelligent criminal would gather some friends around to enter a town so he is not alone just-in-case even if he has no respect of the town guards. If it was not too important he would not even go himself but send a not so well-known, trusted friend to do what he needs to do in town.
It all is a question of the common sense every thinking criminal has and that common sense should affect your role-play.

Just imagine - so every one understands - Robin Hood entering Nottingham.

Firstly, he would think of a perfect day to go in there: when it is market-day and it is crowded everywhere. But why??? Because Robin knows that the people would rather help him then report to the guards, what your char can not hope for.

Secondly, Robin would never go alone. He would take some friends with him to assure he does not need to fight alone if the Sheriffs guards get to see him. This is something your char has also to think of because he has to assume that there could be about - how many are there? 12? - town guards around if he is unlucky.

Thirdly: Robin would enter Nottingham hooded, as it is only logical. If he is asked to remove the hood, he would not say "no" because that would advert even more guards - or lets say persons around. He would try to ignore the guard and hope he gets away with that because the guard is not very motivated. Or he would do as told, hoping the guards do not recognize his face. if they do, he would probably either
a)grin, and use the surprising moment for all the other guards that did not pay attention to him so far, to try! to punch the asking guard in the face and then flee as long as he still cans or
b) use the help of his friends to overwhelm the surrounding guards quietly and to flee after this, hoping the fight is so unrecognized that the people in the street do not panic and do not awake the attention of even more guards. If all this fails, he will probably be caught, but know that he will be rescued by his merrymen some days later. He would also rescue every one of his men if they got caught. Your char should also be rped logically because there is no sense in just saying "no", it is no solution and your char needs a quick solution. So think of what he might do, and wonder if he would really know the guard is so much less skilled than he is that he can dare starting a fight. Why would he know?

However your char reacts to this situation, if he was brave or foolish enough to enter a town, please don't let it be a simple negation of anything the guards order because no criminal would do this, it is so useless! Furthermore, saying "no" several times IS bad rp because the other POs have nothing to work with and their fun really is spoiled. That's not the sense of the game, I think.

I think it is very important that there are bad guys ig because that is how fiction works. And I esteem that there are POs that play baddies because I could not. But please, keep them real in a way. No bad guy would act as foolish as entering a town in broad daylight on his own, knowing that the guards know him and look for him. That is nonesense, except if he is a megalomaniac and thinks he can handle all of them but in this case he would fail to fight them down and end up dead or caught.

[AlexRose]

That is nonesense, except if he is a megalomaniac and thinks he can handle all of them but in this case he would fail to fight them down and end up dead or caught.

Gobaith isn't a town on earth where there are plenty of villagers. Characters know from EXPERIENCE that towns won't have 60 people in. Hell, I can walk around tb for an hour and find NOONE sometimes. On top of that, grouped with the fact that they've walked around town near guards for YEARS and noone's even confronted them so that they don't even have to wear hoods anymore. Most of these characters CAN handle them all, so it's irrelevant. En plus, it's not like it's impossible to retreat from Bane, if things get bad there's always an escape route.

[Gro'bul]

Clearly Rhianna, the person who invented Robin Hood had a much more active imagination than these folks. I'm not sure they can even grasp the concept of characters actually existing without seeing them on their screen (from what I'm reading here) and rejecting the notion that npc's can be witnesses.

[Irania]

I love reading Robin Hood, in fact, i'm in the mood right now but I can't find the book!

I just thought I'd throw that out there. ^^

[Korm Kormsen]

...and wonder if he would really know the guard is so much less skilled than he is that he can dare starting a fight. Why would he know?

just because his char probably has "killed" this guard half a dozen times before...
and just at this point comes the very sensible post from alex.
proving, that he did not understand anything in this thread (not to say in this game)

Hell, I can walk around tb for an hour and find NOONE sometimes.

alex, do you understand the significance of the word 'to suppose'?

Most of these characters CAN handle them all, so it's irrelevant.

sure. ooc knowledge. used for pure engine play.

and that is the ugly part: you non imaginative engine-playing POs of 'bad' chars force the rest of the comunity, to adopt your skill-up-gaming ways, just to be able to go on playing this game.

[Nalzaxx]

If we are to assume that there is more to the population of a town that the current player count.

What is there to stop us also assuming there is more to the bandit group/criminals etc than just the player count?

[Fooser]

and that is the ugly part: you non imaginative engine-playing POs of 'bad' chars force the rest of the comunity, to adopt your skill-up-gaming ways, just to be able to go on playing this game.

Meet me at the west gate of Troll's Bane Korm, we will hit each other for hours. And then we will rock this shizzle.

[Vern Kron]

I have an interesting theory on what you guys are talking about. Logically, IG wise we barely have enough people online at the highest point to count as the -smallest- of villages. Thus, I have come to think that there are the characters we see, the ones that are played by people, the npc's, and then a third layer of people that your charcter personally has no interest in talking with, or care about. Basically, an invisable crowd that you automatically ignore, and your character picks out the -seen- ones from that crowd, because they look more...interesting? Different? Are really freaking loud that they cause themselves to be remembered? Whatever it is, that is my thoughts on it. Probably not right nor the standard but oh well.

[Korm Kormsen]

What is there to stop us also assuming there is more to the bandit group/criminals etc than just the player count?

just the assumption, that most people abstain from doing 'bad' out of fear for the authorities.

ok, here you can say, that there is no reason to assume fearsome authorities.

but with a Gobaith, that has no organization whatever (save the allmighty temple...) this world would be not playable for anybody, but strong fighters.

don't you kids see, that there is a difference between a game like illarion and an egoshooter?

just think a little bit ahead: what will happen, when 'you' succeed?
an island without crafters, without peacefull people.
and then? - you will have to cloud each other to maintain your style of gaming.

what is so interesting about labourously skill up a fighter or mage, just to roam the world in "god-mode" ever after?

edit.

Meet me at the west gate of Troll's Bane Korm, we will hit each other for hours. And then we will rock this shizzle.

if we do that, they won. then they have drawn us down to their low nivel.

[AlexRose]

Most of these characters CAN handle them all, so it's irrelevant.

sure. ooc knowledge. used for pure engine play.

and that is the ugly part: you non imaginative engine-playing POs of 'bad' chars force the rest of the comunity, to adopt your skill-up-gaming ways, just to be able to go on playing this game.

I rarely pk people, I've pked 6 times since I played, last two times being 1. Catching a criminal as a guard who just ignored all grabs and warnings etc. and 2. in the war. However, even if I was a pking criminal, my mage char who can cast every spell would know perfectly well he could easily take down several people or even teleport away if needs be. Not that I'd go on a rampage of course, I'm not Nalcaryos. However, most "bad guys" mind their own business and won't attack you unless you attack them, so if you attack a highly skilled bad guy who isn't bothering anyone and he kills you in self defense then I think that's fair. We all know Bane is the centre for rp, criminal or not, and I can't think of many people who would stay out of town for the whole duration of a banishment.

Why should we "suppose" that there are 10 billion residents on Gobaith when there clearly aren't? Why should we pretend that we're scared some non existent people might come and get us, when you don't pretend you're scared some non existent baddies might get you. Why can't it just be rped that Gobaith is a small island with relatively few people? I mean.. let's put it into perspective.

Looking at the size of the character compared to the size of Gobaith compared to the size of the world, Illarion presumably is smaller than Earth. So it would have a lower population.

It is also in a less advanced stage than earth, so, again, it would theoretically have a lower population (like earth's medieval population was tiny in comparison to its current).

Now look at the size of the mainland. EVERYBODY is gonna be there, not the tiny little island. So you're talking about a small world population, the vast majority of which will be on the mainland.

Then we have this island, in which the people are spaced out between the various towns.

Why the heck would this at all suggest that there would be a lot of citizens? Then look again, how many of THOSE would have the build or the nerve to become a guard.

There is no reason to assume that there's gonna be 9000 guards in town when there's no experience of that, especially looking at the guard list. You wouldn't expect every guard to be on duty at all times, would you?

The guards are also much newer to the isle than the bad guys generally, therefore obviously these people who've had lots of training in battle are going to trounce the pathetic guards who can barely lift a blade.

And then you wonder why groups of 3 or 4 bad guys aren't scared to be in a town where they're never even acknowledged, let alone attacked.

[Korm Kormsen]

Alex,

they say, a picture says more, than a thousand words.
so here my thousand-plus words comment to your last post:

[nmaguire]

Alex,

they say, a picture says more, than a thousand words.
so here my thousand-plus words comment to your last post:

Ah, you couldn't be bothered to read his post then I assume.

[Korm Kormsen]

i read his post more than once, before i "answered". by now i know, that alex has an IQ above that of a banana, so his post was not mere stupidness.
it was intentional distorting the focus of the discussion by pushing arguments in the ridicule.

if you attack a highly skilled bad guy who isn't bothering anyone and he kills you in self defense then I think that's fair.

Why should we "suppose" that there are 10 billion residents on Gobaith

There is no reason to assume that there's gonna be 9000 guards in town

the bad guys generally, therefore obviously these people who've had lots of training in battle are going to trounce the pathetic guards who can barely lift a blade.

[Miklorius]

I guess we should assume that e.g. Troll's Bane is not totally empty except the NPCs when no PC is wandering around. Think also that there are not enough houses for all active PCs, so we assume that there are more city houses etc. than we can see.

The game graphics is an abstraction which show us what is important.

[Faladron]

Again without a "word from above" (GM) on this matter all we got here is

Korms opinion clashing against Alex' opinion,
both of them being player opinions and
thus equal in the way other people may react towards them
(= agree, disagree, ignore but in no way is anyone forced to consider either opinion in their personal roleplay).

So this bashing against each other won't give you anymore than a headache and perhaps some bruises, as neither of you will suceed and make everyone else agree with his point of view.

[Lrmy]

What is there to stop us also assuming there is more to the bandit group/criminals etc than just the player count?

just the assumption, that most people abstain from doing 'bad' out of fear for the authorities.

ok, here you can say, that there is no reason to assume fearsome authorities.

The stronger person is always the authority.

don't you kids see, that there is a difference between a game like illarion and an egoshooter?

Yes.

just think a little bit ahead: what will happen, when 'you' succeed?
an island without crafters, without peacefull people.
and then? - you will have to cloud each other to maintain your style of gaming.

Style of gaming? I can prove I do not power game by just posting my character's skills. All these uber-bad-powergamers don't exist. Look at Deuce, Dominic, William and Dain. All fairly old characters that are classified as bad. A long time to gain skills. Hell, I know more members of silverbrand and the grey rose that have higher crafting and fighting skills than 99% of bad guys in game. How on Gobaith could the "bad guys" take over.

what is so interesting about labourously skill up a fighter or mage, just to roam the world in "god-mode" ever after?

Uhm, who does this? I'm currently playing an "evil" character that hasn't maliciously attacked some one in months. I rarely ever see hostile PVP

Now, where do you get the notion that there are a lot of "bad" characters going around killing everyone? The most violent group is the...Bone Crushers? I personally haven't seen Illarion so tame in the good vs. evil front in a long time.

[Arien Edhel]

'Cause of personal attacks closed until tomorrow evening.
Time for you all to calm down and think about the netiquette.