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Retlak
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Post by Retlak »

Pell, please write your messages in a more respectful way for once will you?

Thanks
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Rosendil
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Post by Rosendil »

Amadi Yusuf Randal wrote:Everybody loves the idea of unconcious people.
But its technical not possible at the moment. Sad but true.

I agree with "Pellandria" its crap to ban a char. We want more chars IG, not less!
That nobody fears to become clouded seems to be true.
But I d prefer other possibilities than banning chars. Which possibilities?
I really dont know.. :wink:
Suggestion:

Character dies / becomes clowded:
1st day: max 10% life, all skills 10% of the current level
2nd day: max 20% life, all skills 20% of the current level
3rd day: max 30% life, all skills 30% of the current level
...
10th day: full life, full skills

AND, VERY IMPORTANT: Disable PvP in towns, exception: quests/wars
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Rosendil
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Post by Rosendil »

Amadi Yusuf Randal wrote:
... "prison island"....
A really good idea!
Retlak
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Post by Retlak »

There will always be the problem of people getting unfair clouding, by lag or disconnection or other things, fixed system punishments just won't do the job.
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Amadi Yusuf Randal
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Post by Amadi Yusuf Randal »

No fixes system punishments...
I thought about a portal book only guards own. And they lead to a "island around gobiath" .
Thats my suggestion.
Would be more easy to get a char through a portal then into jailhouse.
And when on the island is work to do... all would be fine.
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Korm Kormsen
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Post by Korm Kormsen »

the shortcomings of the game mecanics are not the problem.
WE are the problem.
we are no comunity, we are only a couple of small groups, that accidently use the same enviroment for private "rp".
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Daelyn
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Post by Daelyn »

Retlak wrote:There will always be the problem of people getting unfair clouding, by lag or disconnection or other things, fixed system punishments just won't do the job.
True, but I think it would be possible to give the bann option I suggested to only players, and not NPCs. I think it would also be possible to limit the ammount of "banns" you can perform a month (for example) But then again, this would not be possible til we get a two step death procedure... Any idea when this will be possible, and if not, any other ideas?
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Rosendil
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Post by Rosendil »

Retlak wrote:There will always be the problem of people getting unfair clouding, by lag or disconnection or other things, fixed system punishments just won't do the job.
Regarding unfair clowdings:
My suggestion was: No PvP in towns, or maybe better: disable PK in towns.

This would leads to save towns and dangerous areas around the towns.
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Daelyn
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Post by Daelyn »

Rosendil wrote: Regarding unfair clowdings:
My suggestion was: No PvP in towns, or maybe better: disable PK in towns.

This would leads to save towns and dangerous areas around the towns.
What would the rp reason be? And if it would still be possible to duel inside towns, this would get abused for unlimited skilling. If it was not possible people would go outside towns to level, and we would still have the accidental duel deaths problem:/ And how about deaths because of lags, while fighting npcs?
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Rosendil
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Post by Rosendil »

Daelyn wrote: What would the rp reason be? And if it would still be possible to duel inside towns, this would get abused for unlimited skilling. If it was not possible people would go outside towns to level, and we would still have the accidental duel deaths problem:/ And how about deaths because of lags, while fighting npcs?
The RP reason for save towns is: there are a lot of guards around, who protect the inhabitants.

Duelling and skilling is possible in the current system also and is limited by the skill cap. I don't see a problem there.

Lags: Just be more careful! The RP reason for beeing clowded caused by a lag might be a lucky punch of your opponent. I don't see a problem here too.
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Daelyn
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Post by Daelyn »

Rosendil wrote: The RP reason for save towns is: there are a lot of guards around, who protect the inhabitants.
But that would almost be forced rp? Even though there are many guards around it would be possible[/] to attack someone, and one might do so if one f.eks. gets very angry.
Duelling and skilling is possible in the current system also and is limited by the skill cap. I don't see a problem there.


I must have misunderstood you, cause I thought you were saying that it should be possible to duel, but not kill someone inside the town (as it was a response to Matt mentioning accidental duel deaths) In that case people would be able to just dual and dual without a break hehe.

Lags: Just be more careful! The RP reason for beeing clowded caused by a lag might be a lucky punch of your opponent. I don't see a problem here too.


Lucky punches should be rped by the players, not be a result of technical problems. Presice, they are already included in the fighting system. Perhaps it could be defendable if lag happened more rarely, but right now these deaths happen way too often for them to just be "lucky" hits.

Appreciate that youre being creative, just poitning out some appearent flaws ;):)
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Rosendil
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Post by Rosendil »

Daelyn wrote:
Rosendil wrote: The RP reason for save towns is: there are a lot of guards around, who protect the inhabitants.
But that would almost be forced rp? Even though there are many guards around it would be possible[/] to attack someone, and one might do so if one f.eks. gets very angry.


Forced RP by fictive guards? *grins*

You can RP whatever you want inside the towns, including death. But this implies that both players agree with that. Having fun is the aim, and not forced player killing.

Technically, to avoid unfair clowding, I suggest to disable clowding inside towns.

Daelyn wrote:
Rosendil wrote: Lags: Just be more careful! The RP reason for beeing clowded caused by a lag might be a lucky punch of your opponent. I don't see a problem here too.


Lucky punches should be rped by the players, not be a result of technical problems. Presice, they are already included in the fighting system. Perhaps it could be defendable if lag happened more rarely, but right now these deaths happen way too often for them to just be "lucky" hits.


My explanation was primary for PvM.
Beeing clowded caused by lag in PvP is worse, but again, I dont see a problem here. Try to avoid PvP if you are afraid of lags. Lags can happen on both sides. And if your opponent is a good player, an agreement in case of a lag should'nt be a problem.
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Dantagon Marescot
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Post by Dantagon Marescot »

Personally I still want to know who Daelyn plays. His account is just a few months old and he acts like he has been playing for years, but won't tell anyone a character whom he has played. I'm curious, are you too afraid to tell in fear that people will hate you for your opinions?

And Pella... what you get up to when there are no women ig to entertain your character :P I think half the argument right here is because both people are argumentive and we have a freaking language gap. Can neither of you play nice?

On topic... I already said I liked the island idea ;) Any word from the devs on this yet?

And Korm is right. We aren't a community. We are just a bunch of people with our own ideas all trying to do it all our way in the same spot.
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Konrad Knox
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Post by Konrad Knox »

I'm thankful to Julius for one thing. He made me like Dantagon.
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Pellandria
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Post by Pellandria »

nmaguire wrote: Perhaps they are fine with the "logical consequences" but nobody catches them, so I don't see why they should face consequences for evading the authorities, unless they get caught.
The problem here is, atleast what I can gather, "bad" players try to simply avoid the prison, not getting their chars caught is, in my eyes, a certaint abusing, if anyone gets clouded, than he or she has to live with the lose of Items, skills and the rp'ing of certaint wounds afterwards, but if chars, powerfull trougth their equipment and Stats/Skills, decide to avoid any of the consequenzes, e.g. getting jailed or atleast cornered, then its more than ~annoying~ that you yet get another "I'm hooded" messages.

In one way I understand this rp, the towns hold not only people, whocould be "victims to come" but also are the main place to findsomeonetoo rp, sadly most guards have some kind of ~forced rp~ to take, they are not only forced to avoid your chars alone, as most simply don't stand a chance and even if they could stand a chance the "hooding" of char is a common tactic to simply avoid any responsebility on the player and char side.

Just see it like that, a good char has to follow the rules of rp, when it comes to react on criminals in disguise, they "can't" identify a hooded char and even if meeting one alone this char will most likely run or stike down your char, all whats left for guards is to either hunt criminalsdown in masses or find someone, who changed sides and can pinpoint the location of the criminal chars, but even then trougth lags, skill fight and so on the "bad" chars willmost likely find loopholein the defense/attack and flee, which results in the currentsituation: The bad chars are free to roam any city and any land, without fearing any consequenzes at all, while the guards are stuck to the "rp rules" and won't be ableto find out who hides under any hood.

Daelyn wrote: A prisson sentence is an ooc punishment too! Youve gotta see that, not that I dont think its necessary. Also, the reason why your char is excluded from the game for a week, is irrellevant to how big a punishment you actually think a week without the game is. First you say its horrible, then you claim its nothing. Make up your mind.
Again you seem to missread my postordidn't udnerstand it, yes a prsions sentence sucks, but this is the only way, atleast in my opinion, to punish a char or would you rather like to be stripped of your possesions?
And you see a prison sentences is not even a ban, you still can log in or? With a prison located inside trollsbane and not outside in some backwater place like a forest, I think there would be actually prison rp, you see while a prison just trapps your char, with a killban you are forced to stay out of your char, I also had a char in the old prison once and not mere 7 days but several months and I was not even catched but trapped there on a Gm's behalf, because she "Didn't like my rp" and I still logged in and in the hope that someone might be around or even talk with someone over icq/msn so they are going to visit me, so the trollsbane jail is a huge improvement over the other prison and still you complain about it, just make sure that some guard/criminal friend visits you now and the or go to prison with two people, then you still could rp and you won't be "rotting" there.
Daelyn wrote: ... No you cant. You play your char like it was yourself, in a world where you never were punished by your actions, and you were immortal.
This is exactly wrong, Pellandria is quiete the opposit of me, a figure which could more be hated than be loved, so before you break down my intentions to play my Chars, you might but some investigation in it.
Not to add, isn't it strange, that you tell me that "I would not care for consequenzes" nor "never being punished by your actions" I'm still baffeled by the fact, that there are people, who simply spill that out over my char, but without actually playing with here, give me an example please so that I can finally destroy this argument, as it holds no worth, but I allready heard it from several people.


Daelyn wrote: I really dont get your point here.. perhaps you should clarify? You believe my intentions with this is that I would like to bann the highest possible number of chars? Well, I can asure you it isnt. The char you refer to is probably Aeridor, whom Pellandria has only met on very few occasions, or Aerandi, neither of which have said anything wrong about the universe of Illarion, to Pellandria. It is clear that by saying I do not know much, you are refering to differences between our chars, on ig matters. Once again you prove how you let your char's feelings on other chars shine through in an OOC discussion.
I never said you will do it, maybe you should not take everything personal I say here, normally I'm pointing at the "community" as one and there are, without a doubt, people who would use this ~killban~ system to influence other peoples rp.
Not to add that I didn't said that you don't know something about the game, all I said is, that I get suspicous, if people say that they "know the game for years" while their board acount shows two month play time, there is nothing wrong there or?
Would you trust some new board account, which yet has not shed any light on his chars, saying that he knew the game and its atmosphere for years?
Daelyn wrote: It is funny how you say that the punishment of the char is the skills lost, and not that the char gets seriously wounded (or imprisoned), like a true rper would say. The skills lost is the punishment to the player.
I don't see "playing wounded chars" as a punishment, but as an increase of rp depth in the game, I probably played a char more often wounded, than you got your chars caught and I might quote my and yourself once again, while you said"...getting ghosted is a punishment for the char..."
I replied with "Its more a punishment for the player than the char..." and now you state that the punishment is for the player aswell, so I don't get your point there.

Daelyn wrote: You admit to play a bitchy char pellandria.
The consequenses of annoying the wrong people in RL is death.
The consequenz of breaking the law in RL is death/prison

Daelyn wrote: The "logical consequence" of Pellandria's behvaiour is death. Yet you keep complaining when someone kills her. Are you any more willing to carry the logical consequenses than those your accuse?
As I allready said this..several times, I have no, ~absolutly~ no complains about a fair and square fight, if you want an technical fight, fine then play fair and give me the reactiontime to either writte something, you know english is not my mother tongue, means it takes longer for me to writte #me's or say something, or let us play an rp fight, which will be even more funny and much better than any technical fight ever will be.
But I'm certiantly against the abusing ofechnical flaws or that people are trigger happy and crtl+ click first and don't ever ask any question.

If you might have understand me wrong untill now, you see I'm limited to those words I know and some might sound harsh in your ears, while I would consider them fairly normal or I simply have no other words to choose from, I'm not saying that all bad chars can't rp, its just that it seems that they either limit their rp to a "certaint crowd" of player instead of letting everyone have a share of their rp, play fair along with guards, don't take them their ability to do what they intend to doe.g. jail your char, I'm sure there will grow rp, if guards and prisoners actually will be playing along instead against each other.

To the Killban: I still don't like it, even with reducing one's ability to ban someone for a certaint time or even reducing the times one can ban, its till a powerfull tool, just imagen that your char has agrudge against another char, you have bett equipment and skills so you kill his char, that almost always pisses the other player off and he either ignores it or gets someone to kill you, now after a week both player can play their chars again and you might want to immeadeatly seek out your opponent and kill him, banning him for a week again, so he gets his friend yadda yadda this will be a devilcircel.

Maybe the whole "people don't fear death" thing is going into the wrong direction, maybe it should be "people don't fear killing others", but oh well.
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Rhianna Morgan
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Post by Rhianna Morgan »

Pellandria wrote:The problem here is, atleast what I can gather, "bad" players try to simply avoid the prison, not getting their chars caught is, in my eyes, a certaint abusing, if anyone gets clouded, than he or she has to live with the lose of Items, skills and the rp'ing of certaint wounds afterwards, but if chars, powerfull trougth their equipment and Stats/Skills, decide to avoid any of the consequenzes, e.g. getting jailed or atleast cornered, then its more than ~annoying~ that you yet get another "I'm hooded" messages.

In one way I understand this rp, the towns hold not only people, whocould be "victims to come" but also are the main place to findsomeonetoo rp, sadly most guards have some kind of ~forced rp~ to take, they are not only forced to avoid your chars alone, as most simply don't stand a chance and even if they could stand a chance the "hooding" of char is a common tactic to simply avoid any responsebility on the player and char side.

Just see it like that, a good char has to follow the rules of rp, when it comes to react on criminals in disguise, they "can't" identify a hooded char and even if meeting one alone this char will most likely run or stike down your char, all whats left for guards is to either hunt criminalsdown in masses or find someone, who changed sides and can pinpoint the location of the criminal chars, but even then trougth lags, skill fight and so on the "bad" chars willmost likely find loopholein the defense/attack and flee, which results in the currentsituation: The bad chars are free to roam any city and any land, without fearing any consequenzes at all, while the guards are stuck to the "rp rules" and won't be ableto find out who hides under any hood.
I have only one simple question to ask here: Why can't the guards rp that they catch the hooded figure just to look who hides under the hood because they are seeking some criminal and anyone hooded might logically look suspicious for them?
Hooded figures in broad daylight have to hide something, and if you hide something it perhaps is something illegal. It does not have to be, but I think a guard should be intelligent enough to overhaul all persons he or she does not recognize or does not know. Policemen in RL would do this as well when they are tracing someone.
Pellandria wrote:With a prison located inside trollsbane and not outside in some backwater place like a forest, I think there would be actually prison rp, you see while a prison just trapps your char, with a killban you are forced to stay out of your char, I also had a char in the old prison once and not mere 7 days but several months and I was not even catched but trapped there on a Gm's behalf, because she "Didn't like my rp" and I still logged in and in the hope that someone might be around or even talk with someone over icq/msn so they are going to visit me, so the trollsbane jail is a huge improvement over the other prison and still you complain about it, just make sure that some guard/criminal friend visits you now and the or go to prison with two people, then you still could rp and you won't be "rotting" there.
In this point I absolutely agree; especially if non-imprisoned chars are able to go inside the prison theoretically. Because there would not only be rp in the prisons but only breakout-trying rps and stuff like that, love scenes of falsely imprisoned guys and their fiances that will wait for them until the truth comes out etc etc...
Is the prison actually walkable? Because in case it is there could be really good rp in and around it. Perhaps the idea of corrupt guards would also come up and offer even more rp with innocent and guilty "criminals" in the cells...
But why am I still talking? Everyone has enough imagination to think of some scenes by him-/herself.
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Pellandria
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Post by Pellandria »

Rhianna Morgan wrote: I have only one simple question to ask here: Why can't the guards rp that they catch the hooded figure just to look who hides under the hood because they are seeking some criminal and anyone hooded might logically look suspicious for them?
Hooded figures in broad daylight have to hide something, and if you hide something it perhaps is something illegal. It does not have to be, but I think a guard should be intelligent enough to overhaul all persons he or she does not recognize or does not know. Policemen in RL would do this as well when they are tracing someone.
As I said, they normally try to find a loophole, either they refuseor they attack the guard, and at this skill and equipment level, you are normally half death, before you even can start to react on the attack.
Most Criminals ig i so far have seen, always find a strange way to keep their hood on, not that it would even be worth trieng, a human or otherwise being has more remarkable features than their face.
Rhianna Morgan wrote: Is the prison actually walkable?
There seem to be times were one can simply walk into the prison.
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Korm Kormsen
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Post by Korm Kormsen »

Rhianna Morgan,
in the past, the TB jail has proven to be as tight as a sieve...
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AlexRose
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Post by AlexRose »

Dantagon Marescot wrote:Personally I still want to know who Daelyn plays. His account is just a few months old and he acts like he has been playing for years, but won't tell anyone a character whom he has played. I'm curious, are you too afraid to tell in fear that people will hate you for your opinions?

And Pella... what you get up to when there are no women ig to entertain your character :P I think half the argument right here is because both people are argumentive and we have a freaking language gap. Can neither of you play nice?

On topic... I already said I liked the island idea ;) Any word from the devs on this yet?

And Korm is right. We aren't a community. We are just a bunch of people with our own ideas all trying to do it all our way in the same spot.
He has played for years, and this is just his new account for a different character.. lots of people do that.
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Daelyn
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Post by Daelyn »

Dantagon Marescot wrote:Personally I still want to know who Daelyn plays. His account is just a few months old and he acts like he has been playing for years, but won't tell anyone a character whom he has played. I'm curious, are you too afraid to tell in fear that people will hate you for your opinions?
If I had such a fear it would probably be reasonable. You know just as well as I how bad people are at mixing OOC and IC, Dant. I did tell you though, I play almost all the chars with Ae. My first char was Tryiam Celebrindal, taught by Swish (who would have thought XD) And trained in the arts of fighting by Arcia. Im also PO Aeridor Isthil, Aernadi Cuthalion, Belannaer, Aenarion and some random other chars I will prefer to keep secret. As I said, almost all elves with Ae (No, im not PO kaelynXD )
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Dantagon Marescot
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Post by Dantagon Marescot »

Ah, okay. And it is okay, I know who plays kaelyn. And no, I am not saying who (besides the fact it ain't me).

Alex, it wasn't is this a new character account, but is he an oldie hiding his name so people don't know who he is. I have a second account for a second character, but I am still going to do most of my debating posts on Dan. ;)

Rhianna,

A lot of times we will ask people to remove hoods (when it was a law), and people would refuse to remove it. So we would tell them to remove it, we get a no. We would tell them again, "either you reveal your face or you need to leave Bane." Again, a no and we would tell them to leave bane, yet another no. Well, of course at that point we behind the screen are going "gods damn it, I'm gonna get clouded just getting him out of here," because we know who it is, and that by all means, they will cloud me because they know they can.

Anyway, what happens is (from my point of view), we have the guards rp their job. We have other people rping criminals or baddies who don't want to get caught. They wander into town hooded, we attempt to chase them out. We do as a guard should do, well, they don't want to play along and will end up clouding you instead of leaving. Now, is it our fault for not training to skill cap each day, yeah sure... I guess... but this game is not my job. On the other hand, sometimes it leaves us thinking, can the baddies just leave when asked for once... Do we have to go through the same cycle again? It gets annoying, frusterating, and in the end only leaves fun for the baddies because the good guys don't want to deal with it for very long.
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abcfantasy
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Post by abcfantasy »

Dantagon Marescot wrote:A lot of times we will ask people to remove hoods (when it was a law), and people would refuse to remove it. So we would tell them to remove it, we get a no. We would tell them again, "either you reveal your face or you need to leave Bane." Again, a no and we would tell them to leave bane, yet another no. Well, of course at that point we behind the screen are going "gods damn it, I'm gonna get clouded just getting him out of here," because we know who it is, and that by all means, they will cloud me because they know they can.
That sounds soooooooooo familiar.
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Julius
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Post by Julius »

Wtf, if a person doesn't want to remove his hood it's not bad rp. Can you two please explain to me how a criminal not wanting to remove his hood is horrible rp?
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abcfantasy
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Post by abcfantasy »

Okay Julius, you may have a point that it's not -horrible- RP. Good.

But it's really not fun at all for others who try to do something. It gets tiring, annoying and exasperating.

I won't report anyone who does that to the GMs, because it's not -wrong- RP or something. But it's not really providing fun.
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Dantagon Marescot
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Post by Dantagon Marescot »

Quote where in my post I called it bad rp? Because I don't think I said anything about it being bad or horrible rp. Just a valid pet peeve of those who play goody two shoes because it frusterates the players. Read (and don't correct my spelling or grammar. English is not my friend).
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Ayla
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Post by Ayla »

Not to mention that those that normally wear hoods/masks/ whatever somehow manage to have them -completely- flawless to where there's absolutely no way to possibly recognize them.

Sure, it may be possible with months and months of character planning, but not just instantly. As they said above, it gets old. *Shrug* Not bad, not wrong.. Redundant.
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Julius
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Post by Julius »

I won't. :P

But still, the whole point of wearing a hood is too not reveal the identify of your character. It shouldn't be a pet peeve because it's a rped action. Does it spoil the fun? Sure. But so would walking into town to buy a potion without a hood and getting clouded, ganked, and sent to the prison for 5 weeks ig.

Thats no fun.
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Dantagon Marescot
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Post by Dantagon Marescot »

If I remember correctly, Greenbriar sells potions as well :P

And normally the criminals who walk into town without a hood will cloud you for trying to stop them anyway. So either way it is normally the criminal who walks out without a scratch.

Brooke has the best word for it. Redundant.
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Julius
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Post by Julius »

Well..

Julius has done it three times and I don't consider him a criminal. I think the hood guys are the ones that are not criminals. They're the ones that care for there reputation a bit too much to allow there face to be shown while pwning some Knight.

Redundant? Sure, but you could say the same thing about the Knights asking to remove the hood. I've played both sides of the whole good verus evil thing and I can now relate to the arguments bandits used to have against me in OOC.
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abcfantasy
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Post by abcfantasy »

I don't get it.

It seems like criminals are free to get disguised, pwn people and relax in towns.

Knights shouldn't do anything against them, they're redundant.

I'm exagerating a bit here, but it's almost resolving to that. If I don't do anything, my char is offended and insulted for bbeing a Knight just for a title, never doing anything. If I do something...it's redundant?

I don't know.
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