The community as a whole

[Dantagon Marescot]

F.eks. : How many times has Dantagon been killed the last year ( a more or less purely rped char I think) and how many times has Pellandria been killed (a high skilled char who I think gets into fights every now and then

The last time, atleast I know, was as Avalyon kept on casting Icebolts on him and suprise around that time my Char was last killed aswell(not counting the times my char nearly died and got away with a pixel of health), btw. to think that my Char is "highly" skilled is pretty funny, she can't even cast certaint Spells, other "mages" can easily do nor does she have a huge armor nor the best figthing skills.

Haha, actually yeah, that was the last time Dan got clouded. And it was more like, "Oh crap, I'm paralized... oh hellsbriar...." Boom! Pelted with some kind of magic missle and died. Didn't stand a chance.

The next closest time was against a really high skilled character who decided to play nice and use a weaker weapon so I wouldn't get clouded. However, his friend, whose PO hates me and his character hates mine with a passion, didn't want to be so nice. He truely did come at me with full force, with the intent to cloud. Why? Because he could and he wanted to. And by all means, I know if he were to get my character alone, (even with help), and cloud me, he would. There are people I don't trust because they will cloud you.

"Oh hey, you're a goodie two shoes, you are going to mess up my plans. *pwns* Good, now I won't have to deal with you for a week." Yeah, a ban for death is no go because it will be abused by those who do seek for their characters to have power through skill and power in general. Why has Dan been clouded so little, because I am smart enough to watch out for the morons who do want to cloud him, because he can. He is mostly an rp character, any power he has gotten has mostly been because of how he is rped. He is a decent fighter, could be better, but still decent, just not against skilled characters.

Oh, and I doubt Deuce gets clouded a lot. He tends to run before he dies, most of the higher level fighers do and never get clouded or caught. I think if the badass characters actually got caught once in a while we might have less clouding from them because then they have something to fear.

And on another note, Faladron. I have alts, you've met one of them. I bet you would be hard pressed to figure out who it was. ((And if you do know, say through PM or MSN please)).

Here is a type for alts, as some people really do try to play with other people when they are on alts (others keep to the same ideals and group.) Never let your characters have the same exact personallity or likes and dislikes. Keep them as seperate as possible. Associate with different characters, though some you just can't get away from because they are everywhere and nice to everyone. React differently, interact differently. Hiding who the player is behind a character is a good thing too. If people can't easily guess that it is you, you are probably doing a good job and the only way people can tell who the player is is by the writing style.

Honestly people. Play alternative characters. Find people you never rp with and rp with them. Example, Dan rarely gets to rp with Pella, I created a new character and got rather lucky. My character eventually ran into Pellandria and associates with her more than Dan does. In doing so, I have rped with great people that by playing Dan I would never get to rp with. Seperate your characters, people. Find others and enjoy the game for what it was ment for, rp!

[Retlak]

Baddy chars have no reason to let themselves get caught, this is a roleplaying game yes, but in being prisoned and not able to play your favourite char for 2 or so RL weeks is effectively a ban. It's an OOC punishment. They will never let themselves get caught unless they have an Alt who is equally fun to play, usually never the case.

[abcfantasy]

Sorry but...bad chars who won't ever let themselves get caught is wrong. You can't do anything without accepting consequences.

[Athian]

Sorry but...bad chars who won't ever let themselves get caught is wrong. You can't do anything without accepting consequences.

Why should they 'let' themselves get caught? If the people on the side of the authority can't catch them then thats simply to bad for them. That would be similar to asking good players to 'let' themselves be murdered on occasion because, its not fair for the bad characters if people constantly resist.


Anyway as to my piece to this topic. I don't think death punishments and things like that are going to help the game to much. I do agree to some extent that OOC shouldn't be to involved in ig happenings, however that should be a disgression left up to the players. If they believe they are mature enough to interact both RP wise and OOC wise with other players then no one has the right to tell them otherwise.

However there is a point at which there is a line crossed. Without naming any names, recently i've had to deal with a player that seemed completely incapable of seperating there ooc and ig lives, getting to the point where the player was actually willing to lie to staff about my conduct because they couldn't think of an rp way to have there own way, luckily it wasn't a very good lie . The entire ordeal left me with a bad taste in my mouth and generally thinking about it still annoys me to no ends. Now imagine what it would be like with immature and over immersed (you know the kind of players i'm talking about) players if there were a one week ban every time they were pk'd. There would be flame wars constantly, accusations flying left and right, and people revenge pking eachother. Generally it would turn into a giant hassle for everyone.

While most the players on ig even at our worst and most immature are able to seperate ourselves from the game when it becomes to much. Keep in mind there are a good number of players now (thanks to lack of any proper screening system) that absolutely must have there way or else they'll lie, bitch, moan and rule break because they believe it's there right to punish people around them who don't let them have there way.

While adding a one week ban might seem like good logic when it comes to death punishement, the simple fact is that a large chunk of theis community wouldn't be able to handle it. So guess i vote no to ban's

[Dantagon Marescot]

Of course, it is an rp game, and baddies shouldn't let them selves get caught. However, at the same time there are ig consiquences for ig actions, but baddies rarely experiance the ig consiquences. I know Yusuf suggested a better punishment ig (which would also cause more rp through the punishment). Weither this will get implimented (dependant on devs, gms, and ig politics), is unknown. But if it does, it will allow for ig consiquences that still involve the rping of your character.

[Sundo Raca]

If your unable to capture the 'baddies' then surely thats noone's fault but your own? Being 'evil' doesnt instantly make a character invincible or anything.

[Pellandria]

Baddy chars have no reason to let themselves get caught, this is a roleplaying game...

Somehow this is strangly amusing, because some baddies only play their "power" with skill and technicalwise, but when it comes to the punishing of those chars all we get is "ohh thats just something ooc, has nothing to do with ig" but they can run around with hoods over their heads and then suppose noone will ever find out who this is, if you want to keep it a rpg game, then keep it all rp.

[abcfantasy]

Sorry but...bad chars who won't ever let themselves get caught is wrong. You can't do anything without accepting consequences.

Why should they 'let' themselves get caught? If the people on the side of the authority can't catch them then thats simply to bad for them. That would be similar to asking good players to 'let' themselves be murdered on occasion because, its not fair for the bad characters if people constantly resist.

By that, I didn't mean one of them simply going to a guard "hey catch me, I'm bad".

Many times have I thought about "planning" a hunt against some criminal or something, but at the end, it's useless. What can happen? Most likely, it resolves to fighting, the criminal char gets clouded. What then? The criminal will seek us out independently and cloud us too. So why attack in the first place?

[Korm Kormsen]

Keep in mind there are a good number of players now (thanks to lack of any proper screening system) that absolutely must have there way or else they'll lie, bitch, moan and rule break because they believe it's there right to punish people around them who don't let them have there way.

you and i we both know, that there are enough players of this type, who entered under the old system too.

sure, you are right, that a week's ban would not help anything.
the "trouble"-players have mainly high skilled chars who attack at random. if they see, that they choosed the "wrong victim" - a char as skilled as theirs - they run away to drink a potion. if that does not help enough, they run behind the next corner to log out.
and if reported they lie like the children, they are.
roleplay with socially or mentally deficient kids is simply impossible.
and this problem can not be fought with death-bans (that would mostly affect the victims of these kids).

[Amadi Yusuf Randal]

I think a clouded char, guided to the cross should be so fair and get to jail on own will.
Hardly wounded and unconscious... No chance to escape in a RP-way.

I hope the new "jailing possibility" will relax the situation.
Its would be much more fun to go to jail for everyone...

[Tinya]

Jail: if Illa not dwarfen jail time, and reasonable, for instance 1-7 days and if the char would not loose coin (some not having much to loose), also if the jail cells/windows/bars were at some place like the library where a char could "look out" (RP) who knows what would happen? Some may even enjoy the RP of the trial.

[Athian]

I think a clouded char, guided to the cross should be so fair and get to jail on own will.
Hardly wounded and unconscious... No chance to escape in a RP-way.

I hope the new "jailing possibility" will relax the situation.
Its would be much more fun to go to jail for everyone...

don't know what this 'possibilty' is. but might not hurt to make a few jail cells resurrection points as well. then clouded criminals could be taken directly to the cell without needing to be brought to a generic cross.

[Daelyn]

Lol, seems to me all the good guys only call strong bad guys for powergamers, and to quote Pellandria "because some baddies only play their "power" with skill and technicalwise, but when it comes to the punishing of those chars all we get is "ohh thats just something ooc, has nothing to do with ig" Are you saying that because some players actually train, and use the fighting system created by the "owners" of this game, they should get punished? And are you ALSO saying that this punishment should only count for bad guys? Cause last time I checked there were many good guys who trained their chars too (notice that I dont use powergamers for all chars who have reached a high skill level, JUST because they have reached a high skill).

I believe that a short bann for death, combined with harsh
punishments for criminals (these punishments already ARE a kind of bann, as Matt pointed out), and a two step death procedure would result in not only fear of death, but also that people would really think it through before they killed someone. This would of course only work if no single faction got too much power. However as Illarion is now, and has been for several years I think it would work. If the main fear is that the consequense of every fight would be a bann, simply limit the ammount of kills a player can make to one a month or so. The point is to put some fear of death in the chars (and sadly also necessarily in the pos) and to make criminals and leaders actually think it through before they comitted a crime, or started a war. Again, a two step death procedure is obviously necessary.

I think a clouded char, guided to the cross should be so fair and get to jail on own will.
Hardly wounded and unconscious... No chance to escape in a RP-way.

I hope the new "jailing possibility" will relax the situation.
Its would be much more fun to go to jail for everyone...

I very much agree Amadi.



I am very tired of seeing people unable to see the difference between their Char's opinions, and their own. Try to be fair and make this game as fun as possible, instead of attempting to give your char advantages through ooc discussions. Even though I play some bad guys, I completely agree with Amadi's last post. Why? because it would result in a better game, if not my own char growing more powerful.

[nmaguire]

A kill limit is pretty daft IMO. Let's take it as 3 a month, you are a town guard. You have had to kill 3 criminals to protect the people, and here is another one on a killing spree in Bane. It's your job to stop him, but wait! You have no kills left for that month, so you can either hope he doesn't ignore an RP fight or fight him until he clouds you.

[Amadi Yusuf Randal]

I like this "cross in jailhouse" a lot, athian.

The possibility is to make "work stations" in jail. Or to make a "prison island".
So the punishment will be like:
- Get 100 apples
- Get 40 leathers from pigs
- Get 50 logs of....

So the prisoned one could play, plus his skills would increase. So much more fun than being "banned" in jail.

I hate jailing chars. Why? Cause the chars cant be played. And I d love to see more players online . Not less.
Fine a mass murderer (no offense to anyone) may get jailed like now. But not every small fish.

[nmaguire]

I quite like that idea, hard labour and all that, breaking rocks in the midday sun for criminals, the bigger the crime the higher the punishment.

[Daelyn]

A kill limit is pretty daft IMO. Let's take it as 3 a month, you are a town guard. You have had to kill 3 criminals to protect the people, and here is another one on a killing spree in Bane. It's your job to stop him, but wait! You have no kills left for that month, so you can either hope he doesn't ignore an RP fight or fight him until he clouds you.

Not a clouding limit, a killing (as in banning) limit:P

Edit: Youre right though, a clouding limit would be.. very daft.
If you really thought I was proposing that Im surprised you didnt use a stronger word.. Like retarded XD

[Pellandria]

Great your char gets a "punishment" for sitting in a prison for how long...ohh yes maybe a week freaking big whoop and Daelyn, why are you so afraid to tell us your "true" Charnames, talking off like you play this games for ages, while your characcount is like two months old.

There was a time were the jail was located in the sceleton forest, if you had bad luck you could even be clouded, because sometimes a sceleton spawned inside and you could not use magic or any fighting option to defend yourself and people didn't complained about this back then, but now they complain, because a totally normal ig consequens of a ig crime is to jail them, yeah makes sense.

I like the mainidea of a prision island, but with set out skill option, its stupid to give someone a free ticket to only work and trainhis skills so he can come out of the prison even stronger and it will be even more difficult to get him.

[Daelyn]

So Pell, thanks for proving my point that some people just cant devide their char from themselves! Being as bitchy as your char is an amazing feat though! Congratulations on a good attempt.

Great your char gets a "punishment" for sitting in a prison for how long...ohh yes maybe a week freaking big whoop and Daelyn, why are you so afraid to tell us your "true" Charnames, talking off like you play this games for ages, while your characcount is like two months old.

ROFLMAO LOL! LMFAO! You have just made several posts about how terrible it would be if you get banned for a week for death, and now you fo "ohh yes maybe a week freaking big whoop"

The point is that it is not only the char who gets punished, its the PO too. I think this is necessary for the player to put himself in the chars position, but judging by your earlier posts, YOU clearly dont.

you really think my chars are relevant to this discussion? I didnt which is why I didnt announce them in the beginning of my post, however its no secret. in fact most here prolly know. ill give you a hint though, im the PO of every elven char who starts with "Ae" or has "Ae" in the name. If you wonder how long ive played, its about two years. If the question is how long ive played rpgs...6 years I think.

There was a time were the jail was located in the sceleton forest, if you had bad luck you could even be clouded, because sometimes a sceleton spawned inside and you could not use magic or any fighting option to defend yourself and people didn't complained about this back then, but now they complain, because a totally normal ig consequens of a ig crime is to jail them, yeah makes sense.

At least getting ghosted is a punishment for the char, and not mainly the player. I cant see how its relevant though, as I at least didnt log in more than twice the one time my char was imprisoned (and that was for several months).

[nmaguire]

There was a time were the jail was located in the sceleton forest, if you had bad luck you could even be clouded, because sometimes a sceleton spawned inside and you could not use magic or any fighting option to defend yourself and people didn't complained about this back then, but now they complain, because a totally normal ig consequens of a ig crime is to jail them, yeah makes sense.

And what do YOU complain about? EVERYTHING. If you aren't happy with anything in this game, which is what it seems like to me, then I'm sure you'd be happier not playing.

[Daelyn]

I would appreciate it if you could try to keep this discussion "civilised" for once Pellandria. If you really like making discussions where both parts are genuinly trying to improve something, into insult exchanges though; I really suggest you go into politics.

You haver repeatedly made insults and had a harsh tone in your posts, but if you intend to keep that style up, Ive gotta warn you: More than you can play that game.

[Amadi Yusuf Randal]

No Pella. I wouldnt stop the skill increase for imprisoned chars.
Of course there would be no punishment with fighting elements.
And its not harder to catch someone with high mining skills as one with less.
And going to prison shall become more attractive.
Its crap to have endless ooc discussions, because someone hates being imprisoned. And that for a good reason....

I d love a island, because of the atmosphere. With animals, rocks, working tables...
And you just may enter by portal book. And just may leave when someone gets you back by portal book.

Of course it would be possible to do the same inside some walls.

[Pellandria]

So Pell, thanks for proving my point that some people just cant devide their char from themselves! Being as bitchy as your char is an amazing feat though! Congratulations on a good attempt.

Yeah right, good way to start a post I must say, but I honestly can't take someone seriously, stating that he "played several baddies" and "knows the game for several years"

Great your char gets a "punishment" for sitting in a prison for how long...ohh yes maybe a week freaking big whoop and Daelyn, why are you so afraid to tell us your "true" Charnames, talking off like you play this games for ages, while your characcount is like two months old.

ROFLMAO LOL! LMFAO! You have just made several posts about how terrible it would be if you get banned for a week for death, and now you fo "ohh yes maybe a week freaking big whoop"

Good that you can actually read, because this is quiete amusing seriously
there is a BIG differenc in being killed and banned, because some egomaniac decides you go on his nerves or because you did something ig and get a freaking ig punishment for it.

The point is that it is not only the char who gets punished, its the PO too. I think this is necessary for the player to put himself in the chars position, but judging by your earlier posts, YOU clearly dont.

So first you accus me that I can't decide between my char and myself and now you accuse me that I can't get into "the chars situation", the char situation is following "Oh I'm evil, so I do something evil har har->#me does something evil-> ohh good that this mysterious god watches over me, witch lets me vanish after I run around a building, or this awesome hood, which not only hides my face, but also changes my weight, hight, smell, voice, way to walk, arm length (super duper hood can be brought for 2 silver at your nearest bad guy shop)"
You maybe should start playing a "good guy" for once and hunt down a criminal, then you think different about this.

you really think my chars are relevant to this discussion? I didnt which is why I didnt announce them in the beginning of my post, however its no secret. in fact most here prolly know. ill give you a hint though, im the PO of every elven char who starts with "Ae" or has "Ae" in the name. If you wonder how long ive played, its about two years. If the question is how long ive played rpgs...6 years I think.

Yes I think it indeed is, just take "Richard" as example, he thinks he would have played a bad char I bet, all he did was crap rp and killing people.
He even camped the cross and reskilled everyone there and calling that rp, so I'm a little bit supicious if someone says they have "bad chars" and starting with yours uhm right..I know exactly one char with ae somewhere and that is this scapegoat char Aeridon(or however his name is), that seriously changes my view on your "I know so much" opinion.

At least getting ghosted is a punishment for the char, and not mainly the player. I cant see how its relevant though, as I at least didnt log in more than twice the one time my char was imprisoned (and that was for several months).

Its more a punishment for the player than the char, yes the char looses attributs skilsl and so on, but the player wasted all this time and then even would get a ban on top of it and if you don't have someone playing along with you in the prison, its not the failure of the guards, maybe if more bad chars would get themself catched, there would be actually some prison rp.

And what do YOU complain about? EVERYTHING. If you aren't happy with anything in this game, which is what it seems like to me, then I'm sure you'd be happier not playing.

I'm complaining about "bad chars" being pussys, who simply do bad things for their own fun but are unwilling to carry the locigal consequenzes of their doing, I never said I dislike the game at once, even if there are several "critical" points in it.

[Faladron]

Kann ein Moderator Pellandria bitte mal einen Maulkorb anlegen?
Alternativ kann man auch versuchen ihm zu erklären dass man eine Diskussion auch gewinnen KÖNNTE indem man sachlich bleibt ohne seinen Gegner zu beleidigen.

[Caldrion Sternenglanz]

Tja, schade, dass du immer so schnell darauf reagierst. Ich wollte gerade auch was dazu schreiben, denn langsam kotzt es mich an. Aber zumindest hatte ich nun mal ein Grund, hier mal was reinzuschreiben...

@Pell: Bitte, BITTE, mach hier nicht den Galim, ja?

Du hast es ja an ihm gesehen, dass es nicht gerade zur Gemeinschaft beiträgt und nur dumme Kommentare von anderer Seite bringt, so dass du diese Kröten auch noch schlucken musst.

Miguel
Welcher selten nett ist, wenn er mal was schreibt.

[nmaguire]

I'm complaining about "bad chars" being pussys, who simply do bad things for their own fun but are unwilling to carry the locigal consequenzes of their doing, I never said I dislike the game at once, even if there are several "critical" points in it.

Perhaps they are fine with the "logical consequences" but nobody catches them, so I don't see why they should face consequences for evading the authorities, unless they get caught.

[Daelyn]

Yeah right, good way to start a post I must say, but I honestly can't take someone seriously, stating that he "played several baddies" and "knows the game for several years"

I never "stated" that. It might have become clear that ive played the game a few years from my post, but I never bragged about it or stated it. I cant really see where you read that I have played several baddies, but its true, I have. Ive also played several goodies, for that matter's sake.

Good that you can actually read, because this is quiete amusing seriously
there is a BIG differenc in being killed and banned, because some egomaniac decides you go on his nerves or because you did something ig and get a freaking ig punishment for it.

A prisson sentence is an ooc punishment too! Youve gotta see that, not that I dont think its necessary. Also, the reason why your char is excluded from the game for a week, is irrellevant to how big a punishment you actually think a week without the game is. First you say its horrible, then you claim its nothing. Make up your mind.

So first you accus me that I can't decide between my char and myself and now you accuse me that I can't get into "the chars situation".

... No you cant. You play your char like it was yourself, in a world where you never were punished by your actions, and you were immortal.

You maybe should start playing a "good guy" for once and hunt down a criminal, then you think different about this.

As already pointed out, I have played several good guys, one of which was a guard, so thank you very much. In other words, ive experiences the problem Amadi mentioned earlier.

Yes I think it indeed is, just take "Richard" as example, he thinks he would have played a bad char I bet, all he did was crap rp and killing people.
He even camped the cross and reskilled everyone there and calling that rp, so I'm a little bit supicious if someone says they have "bad chars" and starting with yours uhm right..I know exactly one char with ae somewhere and that is this scapegoat char Aeridon(or however his name is), that seriously changes my view on your "I know so much" opinion.

I really dont get your point here.. perhaps you should clarify? You believe my intentions with this is that I would like to bann the highest possible number of chars? Well, I can asure you it isnt. The char you refer to is probably Aeridor, whom Pellandria has only met on very few occasions, or Aerandi, neither of which have said anything wrong about the universe of Illarion, to Pellandria. It is clear that by saying I do not know much, you are refering to differences between our chars, on ig matters. Once again you prove how you let your char's feelings on other chars shine through in an OOC discussion.

Its more a punishment for the player than the char, yes the char looses attributs skilsl and so on, but the player wasted all this time and then even would get a ban on top of it and if you don't have someone playing along with you in the prison, its not the failure of the guards, maybe if more bad chars would get themself catched, there would be actually some prison rp.

It is funny how you say that the punishment of the char is the skills lost, and not that the char gets seriously wounded (or imprisoned), like a true rper would say. The skills lost is the punishment to the player.

To mmaguire:I'm complaining about "bad chars" being pussys, who simply do bad things for their own fun but are unwilling to carry the locigal consequenzes of their doing, I never said I dislike the game at once, even if there are several "critical" points in it.

You admit to play a bitchy char pellandria. The consequenses of annoying the wrong people in RL is death. The "logical consequence" of Pellandria's behvaiour is death. Yet you keep complaining when someone kills her. Are you any more willing to carry the logical consequenses than those your accuse?

[Korm Kormsen]

Daelyn,

why don't you just use the mental "ignore button"?

[Vern Kron]

Here is an idea. When your character is in jail, maybe, just -maybe- you should rp him in jail!? I mean, guards -will- pop in from tiem to time. Its not like they stick you in there and leave you to die. Or make a character destined to die? Many people have rped prison, many will. If oocly you can't accept responsibility for your characters actions IG, such as you stole and he is now jailed for a week IG time, then maybe you should not be playing a criminal. And by criminals avoiding arrest, there is a difference. If the guard is coming after character Z, and Z dodges every grab, after being surronded and suddenly they become armed due to the fact they forgot to mention they had a weapon, -not- a real escape. Character Y walks into town, and steals a coin. He sees a guard and takes off, the guard pursues. The guard calls for help and the doors to the town are sealed, and the criminal is trapped. The criminal, remembering a secret passage, sneaks out of town and the guard is caught unaware. The important part, is that they get to that secret passage and flee, not using the engine to perform insane abilities such as when rped grab keep running, many, many, times.
Basically, there are some criminals who have done -many- things rp wise that technically can't be done. They have a hood, they do this and that, that I believe is acceptable, as long as their is a way that this can be caught. Not a super dooper disguise that will completely disguise them. What -is- wrong is characters who suddenly have swords when they were unarmed, or something.[/rant]

[Daelyn]

Daelyn,

why don't you just use the mental "ignore button"?

Thanks Korm, I will try that:)

If oocly you can't accept responsibility for your characters actions IG, such as you stole and he is now jailed for a week IG time, then maybe you should not be playing a criminal.

QFT!

If you can not take responsibility for your char’s actions, and accept the consequences, then perhaps you should not play such a character. That goes for all, not just criminals.