The community as a whole

[Damien]

We can try to keep in mind that times are quite gone where everyone's goal was "RP".
By now, we have players with very different playing styles and goals. There are groups or single people who want to :
- roleplay (note that there are many different definitions of roleplay too)
- powergame peacefully (crafting skills)
- powergame agressively (fighting skills)
- fight and conquer heroically
- play villains and just kill around (some (ab)use roleplay as excuse only)
etc, etc, etc.

With such a wide base of player interests, you can't have everyone get along with each other happily, in the long run.

[Aegohl]

I don't think what you list above constitutes differing play styles that can't work together in some way, but I think there's a truth hidden in your post that you might have been meaning to get at (and that scares me deeply that I'm almost agreeing with Damien):

I suggest that the staff and players of Illarion both have spent such a great amount of energy in building a game that they forget to build the community. This worked early on because we were a little private club with an application to get in, but now there is no filter to keep the bad out.

While I stand by my previous attempts at encouraging the moderators at Illarion to be a wee bit more gentle with well-meaning and nearly on-topic posts, as well as leaving old posts open to be discussed, maybe it's time to get a wee bit more tough on constant spammers, flamers, etc..

And none of that stupid yellow dot crap. People have to see that every time that guy posts; it's like theatrics and it's why it pissed people off. Decisively finding the people who cause the most trouble on the boards and punishing them quietly and quickly with no sloppy board posts allowed about it later is the answer. Also, people should know that their game accounts are at stake if they misbehave on the boards.

Notice I said 'decisive.' The moderation at Illarion tends to be all or nothing. It's lassez faire or you can't get a word in edgewise with all the locks. Ban the very, very worst. Edit the slightly immature. Leave the odds and ends (pussy willows are a plant, not something that needs to be doggedly edited out of posts). Engage polite, intelligent, and interesting conversation with like.

If that doesn't work, set the bomb and run away.

[Lance Thunnigan]

I love Mitch too.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Cut it out? I was told to make this post by Patric (POSamatha).

Um, sorry Julius, but that is not correct. We talked about a completly different topic which had to do as good as nothing with the content of your post, sorry. I talked with you about the gap between american and european players and the arguements between those two timezones and their different style of playing, nothing else.

[Lance Thunnigan]

Oh Em Jee.
*Spreads some love on Pat too*

[Kevin Lightdot]

Oh Em Jee.
*Spreads some love on Pat too*

[Lrmy]

So, some one posts a thread trying to fix a problem. Instead of telling them why this won't work in a nice way, we retaliate with small bits of flames and put-downs. It almost seems that flaming brings fulfillment to some people...

[Fooser]

Why give the courtesy of being serious to someone, when it's impossible to take them seriously? It took what, a couple hours after he made this post before he started making lame attempts at insults in the off topic forum again? He's a loser, and he wasted about 2 minutes of all our time, having to read this post.

[Jaren]

Most of the players who play illarion consistently have serious mental issues. They play illarion because it is one of the few games inwhich you can really become another person and there are others who do the same thing. Because many people become their characters, and because they have serious issues, they get extremely pissed off when horrible things happen to their character/to them.

This is what nerd rage is called.

And illarion swims in it.

No reason to get upset or even discuss the problems with illarion.

[Rincewind]

just started to play Illarion, and this the things in my mind.

First, @ Julius
I think the proplem is to play some deads correctly is that the people only think for their Skills. Its also a proplem, if you die you become a ghost and you ar'nt really dead. some bad boys would rethink their moves if the dead would be constantly for their victims. Maybe it should be much complicater to stand up from death. Or you have to fall in some faint, or so before you die. and if you are dead you are dead.

Next, @ Damien
I think without attested skills, they people do not believe in you. Its impossible to play a magican if you can't conjure. You can wear so many magic-staffs as you like and magic robes, nobody will handle you as a magican without conjure next to them. The same with other classes. So you have to train you skills before RP. If you play a common barbarian ork, you train two month figthing and then you go roleplay. Its a pity.

greetings
rincewind

[Daelyn]

just started to play Illarion, and this the things in my mind.

First, @ Julius
I think the proplem is to play some deads correctly is that the people only think for their Skills. Its also a proplem, if you die you become a ghost and you ar'nt really dead. some bad boys would rethink their moves if the dead would be constantly for their victims. Maybe it should be much complicater to stand up from death. Or you have to fall in some faint, or so before you die. and if you are dead you are dead.

I completely agree! I still suggest we bann chars for a week when they die. And that chars first faint and then need another blow to actually die (get banned for a week).

[Pellandria]

Banning for a weel, nice can I be the one who kills your char first, because then you will see what a stupid idea this is.
Some people here got only one main char and maybe one or two "lower" chars, which can only played when certain numbers of players are around, banning peoples main char, because some people can not rp right and abuse technical flaws, is the worst idea ever, this will kill the community and even push hate more.

[Daelyn]

Banning for a weel, nice can I be the one who kills your char first, because then you will see what a stupid idea this is.
Some people here got only one main char and maybe one or two "lower" chars, which can only played when certain numbers of players are around, banning peoples main char, because some people can not rp right and abuse technical flaws, is the worst idea ever, this will kill the community and even push hate more.

Oh what a tragedy, you cant play for a week... Alternatively the "bann" could be shorter, maybe 3 days.

I think the result would be less player killing, and greater fear of death. As I said one wouldnt HAVE to kill, it would be a possibility. First you would fall unconcious, then get killed if someone chooses to kill you ( I think this was what was plalnned, at least theres something about it on the main page). That way we wont have accidents during training etc. resulting in banns. Combined with stricter punishments for crimes, I think this would result in a more realistic experience, and also more fun. It would be possible to wound a criminal, and then put him in jail, or rob a person without really killing her. Yes, it could get abused, but I think people would think it through carefully before they actually killed someone. I know this has been the soloution in some other ORPGs, and from what I can tell it has worked fine.

[Pellandria]

Don't you get it, people allready fear death, except those who have huge Skills and someone who constantly supplys them with top notch equipment and those will abuse the technical death, that means those who don't have all time to play or skill not only will be punished for not training /having best equipment, no they will also be punished that they can't play for a week, those changings will exactly do the opposit of what it should do, instead of punishing those who use the technical death, its punishes those which chars aren't super killing machines.

[Amadi Yusuf Randal]

Everybody loves the idea of unconcious people.
But its technical not possible at the moment. Sad but true.

I agree with "Pellandria" its crap to ban a char. We want more chars IG, not less!
That nobody fears to become clouded seems to be true.
But I d prefer other possibilities than banning chars. Which possibilities?
I really dont know..

[Daelyn]

Don't you get it, people allready fear death, except those who have huge Skills and someone who constantly supplys them with top notch equipment and those will abuse the technical death, that means those who don't have all time to play or skill not only will be punished for not training /having best equipment, no they will also be punished that they can't play for a week, those changings will exactly do the opposit of what it should do, instead of punishing those who use the technical death, its punishes those which chars aren't super killing machines.

People already fear death? Why would they fear death if they dont care about skill? Thats the only consequense, you loose a tiny ammount of skill. And you say those abusing the technical death should be punished.. Please explain to me what you mean by "abusing the technical death" Seems to me that is the wrong term, cause technical death is implemented by the creators of this game, and is suposed to be a part of it. True, on a rare occation some premature dude who's tired of the game decides "Meh, this is getting boring, ill have some fun and pwn everyone before I leave" but on these rare oocasions im sure the gms could quickly unbann the chars killed without any rp reason.

Those players who dont care about skill, and try to avoid fights usually manage to do so. The skillers are the ones who would be punished the most as they tend to attack each other all the time. F.eks. : How many times has Dantagon been killed the last year ( a more or less purely rped char I think) and how many times has Pellandria been killed (a high skilled char who I think gets into fights every now and then (no offense Pell, you were just the closest example:P;)) I am quite sure you will find that Dantagon has never been clouded while pellandria has been a couple of times.

Amadi has a point, we already have too few players, and wouldnt want to loose more. However, how many would actually get "killed" each week? I doubt it would be very many. IMO being without one player every week is a small price to pay for all the benefits we would get from this system. Amadi also sais "unnconciousness" is not possible though, and so my suggestion is useless. We would not want people getting "banned" in robberies, training accidents and monster killings.

[Rincewind]

banning isnt a good idea, think about newbees, because the first thing they try out is how to die...(like me.. ups.. )

they will play Illa never again if that happen.


I think its a genaral Roleplay proplem to mime a ghost after dead until remove to live.

greetings
Rincewind

[Daelyn]

nah, newbies dont get punished for death. This is allready impltemented;) My idea is not doable anyways though, so meh.

[Pellandria]

People already fear death? Why would they fear death if they dont care about skill?

Its hard to rp one char purely, I too have a few other chars who normally are jsut for Rp fun only, but to actually rp someone sneaky is pretty hard ig, as most people will ~catch~ the char no matter how small or fast he is, not to add that some things need ridicoulus amount of cash which leads you to skill your char and I don't want to loose a training of days and equipment next to 300 silver and be banned, just because some dumbass things he needs to brush off his ego and go on a killing spree.

Those players who dont care about skill, and try to avoid fights usually manage to do so. The skillers are the ones who would be punished the most as they tend to attack each other all the time.

This is exactly where you are wrong, yes indeed those people who are more aggresiv tend to have better skills, but because of those skills they will automaticly win, that means you can't do something against a figther who "wants" to kill you, no matter what twisted rp reason he presents, it seems that the gm's won't punish those who are killing people out of random rp reasons.

F.eks. : How many times has Dantagon been killed the last year ( a more or less purely rped char I think) and how many times has Pellandria been killed (a high skilled char who I think gets into fights every now and then

The last time, atleast I know, was as Avalyon kept on casting Icebolts on him and suprise around that time my Char was last killed aswell(not counting the times my char nearly died and got away with a pixel of health), btw. to think that my Char is "highly" skilled is pretty funny, she can't even cast certaint Spells, other "mages" can easily do nor does she have a huge armor nor the best figthing skills.

(no offense Pell, you were just the closest example:P;)) I am quite sure you will find that Dantagon has never been clouded while pellandria has been a couple of times.

As Mentioned Pellandria was only clouded months ago and that, atleast in my opinion, both times not a fair square fight, but an abusing of reaction times and technical flaws of the game, in this case hiding monster in closed rooms.

how many would actually get "killed" each week? I doubt it would be very many.

You can't take the same measures from today for something this drastic, now the ~powergamer~ would have something in their hands to really destroy someones rp, to slow down quests or to crush any plotline they want to be crushed, just imagen when someone plans an attack on something, there jsut need to be two or three powergamer rushing the lone chars, that plot will never actually happen because the players/chars can't get on, another example, someone wants to marry, you kill them off the day before "marriage" and all have to wait for another week, there are many more examples, but I think you get it.
Its never a good way to give players a way to seriously piss off other players.

IMO being without one player every week is a small price to pay for all the benefits we would get from this system.

I don't see any benefit from it, the Powergamers/skileld Chars won't be afraid of nothing as the normal skilled chars have to literally rush them and everyone not wanting to skill must fear the consequenzes of being clouded even if its jsut accidently.

[Rincewind]

@ Daelyn

mybee the newbees should trained in playing Illa on the famous Newbee-Island, and there they cant die...

But on the real Island (cant never remember name) of Illa, they have to go the hard way.

[Daelyn]

@ Daelyn

mybee the newbees should trained in playing Illa on the famous Newbee-Island, and there they cant die...

But on the real Island (cant never remember name) of Illa, they have to go the hard way.

Nah, newbies dont loose items or skills when dying:P at least not first few days.

@Pell Ill read later, now I need food:P

[ogerawa]

@ Daelyn

I'm sure the GMs would cooperate if you want to get your chars banned when they die. But don't make others who doesn't feel like it to get the same treatment just cause you like that idea.

So... tell us your chars name, so the players can help you "have more fun in your own way for yourself". When we see any of your chars die, we can tell it to the GMs, so they can ban you for a week.

[Faladron]

one main char and maybe one or two "lower" chars, which can only played when certain numbers of players are around,

Find some new people for the "lower" chars then? Roleplaying with people you don't buddy friend in RL/msn isn't that hard, though it saddens me that THAT is used as an argument for anything.

[Pellandria]

Faladron, before you spill hate around again, without once again thinking, let me enligthen you.

I played a certaint char of mine, if I don't feel like playing my main char, atleast 70% of the encounteres with other players, if I knew them or not, ended with "I ignore you, deal with it" additude, go ahead try it, play a char who hides and observes instead of running around shouting "greetings" to anyone, most player will ignore this as they normally think "Omg its a thief, if I ignore him, he will go away" and you can't roleplay if you don't find anyone around anyway.

So next time you should use your head for other things than jsut carry around your hair.

[Nalzaxx]

So next time you should use your head for other things than jsut carry around your hair.

I think that THIS is the problem the community has.

[AlexRose]

Rincewind: Of course you can't play a mage if you cast, because you're NOT A MAGE. Duh..

Daelyn: Just.. no. Pellandria gets pked because she's annoying and aggressive, not because she has skills. Say you lag in the graveyard and get pked, or mummies swamp the town and you get pked, or just some thief runs up and pks you, you're gone for a week. Say you have high skills and you don't like someone, you pk them, they're gone for a week. Say you have a duel and you crash but your char stays ig, you're banned for a week.

It would be a joke and it just wouldn't work.

[Daelyn]

Daelyn: Just.. no. Pellandria gets pked because she's annoying and aggressive, not because she has skills. Say you lag in the graveyard and get pked, or mummies swamp the town and you get pked, or just some thief runs up and pks you, you're gone for a week. Say you have high skills and you don't like someone, you pk them, they're gone for a week. Say you have a duel and you crash but your char stays ig, you're banned for a week.

I dont think you read my first post Alex (and who can blame you, it was long:P) My suggestion was on one condition; that death was a two step procedure: 1) unconcious 2) dead (and banned). At this point I did not know this was not technically possible, but as Amadi was so kind as to explain it to me; I can not see why we are still discussing this.

True Alex, Pellandria does not get pked because she has skills, but because she is annoying and pisses off a lot of people. So she was probably a bad example... In RL I would not run up to a mafia boss and insult him... Why; because I fear death! In other words: Pellandria's char is not afraid to die. She could probably have avoided death, just like most smiths etc. in Illarion hardly ever get killed. The exception is during robberies, and so we would need a two step death procedure for this to work. Those who are likely to get killed in Illarion are fighting orientated characters. A few of these characters are almost purely rped, but that must be on the PO's own risk. After all, Illarion is a game with a skill system. Dantagon might have been killed once (not that uber skills would have helped him against a mage…), but so far I think he does a good job staying alive in spite of little skill. He also makes enemies, but he does not challenge them directly while meeting face to face. Those fighters who truly get killed a lot are those who piss of stronger fighters. Even a low level fighter like my current char probably dies less than for example Deuce who pisses off a lot of people. In other words it doesn’t really matter if you’ve powerplayed and have loads of skill, cause there’s always a bigger fish. Even if youre the strongest fighter ingame, you can get killed if facing more than one opponent. The victims would be fighting orientated chars who piss off a lot of people (regardless of skill) If you challenge people, make sure you have skills or friends! Combined with long prison sentences for murder I think we would avoid a lot of playerkilling.

@ Daelyn

I'm sure the GMs would cooperate if you want to get your chars banned when they die. But don't make others who doesn't feel like it to get the same treatment just cause you like that idea.

So... tell us your chars name, so the players can help you "have more fun in your own way for yourself". When we see any of your chars die, we can tell it to the GMs, so they can ban you for a week.

Almost ROFLMAO there! Ehm no not really. youre either retarded or just have weird humour:P

@Pellandria: She cant cast spells because she has terrible attributes:P Not because of lack of skill.

As Amadi pointed unconciousness is not possible right now though. Maybe we can continue the discussion if it ever becomes a possibility:P;)

[Konrad Knox]

Please, mods, please!

[Faladron]

My point which I didnt use personal insults to get across and basically pointed out for everyone that does so, without thinking of anyone in particular, still stands:

Don't make alt's just to play with selected characters/players exclusively, play with everyone.

[Sundo Raca]

Daelyn.

For your idea to work, imo, you would need a game where all the po's trusted each other. Unfortunately, thats not the case. Also, being banned for a week doesnt make any sense ig wise. In fact it makes less sense than just being ghosted.

'Hey ****, havent seen you for a while.'

'Yeah i died for a week.'

also considering how often my character used to die this would basically completely screw me:P. And i hated dying btw. It just seemed to keep happening. >>