[REJECTED]More manapotions at salesmen.

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Post by AlexRose » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:29 pm

That's convenient with your 20 intelligence mage. Not all mages have infinite expenditure mana in situations. Say there's a lich war coming up, you think 5 potions per npc is enough for all the mages if lots of monsters are spawned?

Currently there are:
5 potions at the academy for 45 copper each.
5 potions at Greenbriar for 50 copper each.
5 potions at Hellbriar for 1 silver each.

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Post by Llama » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:36 pm

Pellandria wrote:William can be killed if you get near, jsut like every mage and 6 battle mages is a bit much we just have like 3 maybe 4,
Kevin, Ogerawa, Athian... who else?

We have TOO MANY mages running around currently... ;)

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Post by AlexRose » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:40 pm

Pellandria is a battle mage too.

And Kawako counts as a battle mage because his attributes suck ;) .

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Post by Llama » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:44 pm

AlexRose wrote:And Kawako counts as a battle mage because his attributes suck ;) .
He's a get-client-kicked-from-battle-and-be-eaten-up-by-creatures battle mage

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Post by AlexRose » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:50 pm

I don't think mana potions are his problem; he's beyond help ;) .

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Post by Amira Ranevskaya » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:38 pm

Hadrian_Abela wrote:
Pellandria wrote:William can be killed if you get near, jsut like every mage and 6 battle mages is a bit much we just have like 3 maybe 4,
Kevin, Ogerawa, Athian... who else?

We have TOO MANY mages running around currently... ;)
Kevin (he isn't a full warlock yet is he?), Ogerawa, Athian, Pellandria.

Athian has an apprentice and Pellandria has a student to be.

And I think I have to agree, there are too many mages running around. It seems like everyone has to make a mage character lately. Because the amount of magic users are rising, maybe it is a good idea to make more potions avalible. Supply and demand. The demand is higher, so the supply should be higher as well.

The only other suggestion is to get the alchemy system up and running. ... Not gonna happen.

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Post by Athian » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:45 pm

There were other players i talked to that wanted to apprentice as battle mages. Verdazar for example (though i have no idea where he went to) Kevin technically counts i guess...

So basically as full of close to full Battle-mages

Athian, Pellandria, Ogerawa,

As intiate level apprentices

Verd (get your A$$ back here i have space now!)
Kevin (but if the mages want him they can have him...please?)
Amira

So i counted the six of us as those i know who are or eventually would be battle mages.

p.s. back to topic
Last edited by Athian on Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Taeryon Silverlight » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:47 pm

Kev has 18 runes and BHONA....

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Post by Llama » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:10 pm

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:Kev has 18 runes and BHONA....
Yeah, he just has stats issues that's all...

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Post by Cliu Beothach » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:02 am

You only need two runes to be a mage too, so lets just cut it down to one spell.

In all my years of playing, I've only used 2 or 3 weapons. I say we just have 2 or 3.

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Post by Kevin Lightdot » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:00 am

Djironnyma wrote:oh guys... i use in all the years i have played maybe two dozen of manapotions

no mage, witch don't wand powergame, need them real.
Are you being serious, or do you just want to mages to get as strong your precious character? Seriously, at lower levels, and even higher ones during big things mages generally need mana potions. And Battle Mages need them even harder.
Even you should have to see that.

Make a new char, battle mage with 12 essence 15 int and 10 will, then see if you need potions often.
The skillgain is crap.
Your mana takes a ton of time to regenerate, and this doesn't help the situation if your friend is fighting two demonic skelatons and getting owned by them.



With the huge rising amount of mages we are going to need more potions.

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Post by maryday » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:08 am

"Invisibility spell aka Selfdesintegration possible!?&a

@Kevin; The rising number of mages will only result in a darwinistic selection, not in a rising ammount of consumable potions,

i guess.

--

Some days ago I`ve learnt "Gestureless Desintegration",
and its a druid spell,

or it must be, because, i`ve never noticed anything you fellows talk about.
(Tomorrow i`ll try it on myself, and if it works, i will be the most powerfull Pker on the whole. . .erm..Hm.

*ties a rabbit to a tree*

*POOF, it disappers, leaving not a single trace.*

Searching willstrong volunteers, for magic experiments.
Payment after completion.
)


kewl!, the seventh spell, after "Explosive Growth", "Treeshape","Golden Calf", "Doughflood", "Bottomless bucket" and "Neveremptybucket".
:twisted: So you might call me a great mage, ha-HA! And i don`t even need potions at all!1!!!1!!!

...i always thought even "Lesser Desintegration" was a 9th lvl.magespell. . .
not bad for a lonely housewife with a WIL of 3.

((rly, as the server is up again, i`ll try it on a rabbit, and then...I shall ruu. . .

Proposal:Move this thread into OFF-Topic;

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Post by Drudmust » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:22 am

Nitram wrote:I really like Foosers proposal.
Ha ha ha.

To translate for Maryday, she/he is suggesting a Druid System. I like the idea, but it's a lot of work for our underfed and underpaid Devs.

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Post by Llama » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:27 am

Its amazing how just a simple request like this one can turn into a complicated argument regarding mages.

Fact 1: There are a lot of mages around
Fact 2: Some (3? 4?) mages can open portals, so they can go to greenbriar, the academy, and wherever else they can be bought from and be back in time for dinner
Fact 3: Mana potions are useful. Beleiving their useful only for powergaming means that you beleive that with ONE mana bar, one shall get out of every single fight
Fact 4: They cost 50 coppers each, which is rather expensive for those who aren't floating in money
Fact 5: They can't be obtained in any other way except from vendors or from killing certain skeletons

There you go, now in light of these facts, do you think it unreasonable that we have a bit more mana potions for sale, so we avoid mage mage warfare?

There you go.

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Post by AlexRose » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:46 am

Athian wrote:There were other players i talked to that wanted to apprentice as battle mages. Verdazar for example (though i have no idea where he went to) Kevin technically counts i guess...

So basically as full of close to full Battle-mages

Athian, Pellandria, Ogerawa,

As intiate level apprentices

Verd (get your A$$ back here i have space now!)
Kevin (but if the mages want him they can have him...please?)
Amira

So i counted the six of us as those i know who are or eventually would be battle mages.

p.s. back to topic
V had a statchange and can't use magic.

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Post by Pellandria » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:57 am

Oh and not to forget that there are certaint nonmagic chars who buy off potions aswelll...

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Post by AlexRose » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:06 pm

Oh yeah. The second effect of the mana potion. Tzz..

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Post by maryday » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:42 pm

@Drudmust;
My exact point was, we already have a full working Druid system,
if one is able to accept some system weaknesses, and add some RP.


@Hadrian;
If you cannot spend 50 coppers on a potion, you might be wanting learn to work first,
or do something to get payd by your master. "Lehrgeld bezahlen."
That would also kill the argument, "Oh, the worm wants to learn to cook/tailor/wipe his ass by himself. . . .it should better try it at the Druids."
((I know at least two chars, whose personal story got ruined by this. None was mine.))

No.more.potions.let.mages.be.arrogant.and.egocentric.if.you.want.potions. for.quests.don.not.PG.them.though.pile.them.up.



From my POV this potiondiscussion starts to violate rule 1.



Proposal:If ever an more complex alchemy system shall be implied,
leave the manapotions away, in view on rule 11.





I`ll ignore this thread from now on.
My PO/ IC POV has improved alot, in view on mages, thank you. :wink:
((and don`t moan, over bad RP if i ignore any crapmage, with my ESS of 17 (->as worker!) and will answer any dumphead (->my worker has also 18INT;) magequestion with a dagger between his/ her shoulderblades (Yes, my worker has a estimated DEX of 25, and SPD19) ))


Nonetheless, i wish you alot of fun! :D

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Post by Kevin Lightdot » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:41 pm

Wow and people call me a whiner.



When will you start getting the fact that manapotions are needed for other things?
Fighters need food to train, let's dump food, and they also may need health potions, so let's dump healthpotions, people need weapons to pg, let's delete weapons, crafters use cows to hold their stuff, let's delete cows, people need the game to pg, let's delete the game.

Seriously...

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Post by maryday » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:24 pm

Hat der alte Hexenmeister
Sich doch einmal wegbegeben!
Und nun sollen seine Geister
Auch nach meinem Willen leben.

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Post by Nitram » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:31 pm

Since Mana Potions and Health Potions as well as Food potions and what else is dropped sooner or later anyway. Why change now everything? You will get along with it a few more weeks / months.

Nitram

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Post by Kevin Lightdot » Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:53 pm

maryday wrote:
Hat der alte Hexenmeister
Sich doch einmal wegbegeben!
Und nun sollen seine Geister
Auch nach meinem Willen leben.
You make my balls saggy.
Go PG your halfling some more.


Nitram wrote:Since Mana Potions and Health Potions as well as Food potions and what else is dropped sooner or later anyway. Why change now everything? You will get along with it a few more weeks / months.

Nitram
They are? Well that's handy information.
What are we getting then? On-the-spot healing/manastuff from druids?

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Post by Nitram » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:04 pm

No, new potions from the druids. But they work different as the current ones. At least at the beginning.
You will see.

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Post by maryday » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:29 pm

@Kevin;
Don`t go wrestling pigs in the mud,
you`ll only get dirty and

the pig will like it.
:o Not meant to be rude. . .want a brambletartlet?

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Post by Faladron » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:33 pm

Food and health potions do not enable a fighter to make more hits in the same amount of time (compared to what he could do without those potions).

It may enable fighters to TAKE more hits in the same ammount of time but that is clearly powergaming don't you think?

"Oh I'll cap my parry and dodge on that pack of mummies using 25~ health potions in 10 minutes" < that's not happening, and if it does, someone should wave the ban-stick.

Mages do not need to pwn on every big ocassion.

fine, so there might be a huge load of monsters summoned on certain events / quests, ever heard about the word "Retreat"?

That's the thing you do once you notice you'll won't last any longer against a threat. Run, regroup, search for other people, maybe get yourself saved by someone else, be grateful, get to know new people.

That'd be quite a better situation for roleplay than

"Oh? 30 Ogres storming Trollsbane? No problemo! <cast cast cast> <chug chug> <cast cast cast> <chug chug> <cast cast cast> threat neutralized. *yawn* I don't consider masses of monsters as a threat anymore and I'm just learning magic, I will have no fear on the mortal plane any longer once I become an "advanced" mage mhhhm power..."

What exactly are the benefits of this proposal?

I see mages being able to cast more,
being able to gain skill faster,
being able to single-handedly smack back Gm quests with monsters which forces the Gm's to spawn even more and even harder monsters as they'd be laughed at otherwise, (Zombies? how cute! <castcastcast> <chug>) which means that only "high end" fighting characters (be it mage or warrior) can enjoy such quests while everyone else has to run and flee or be killed in some hits.

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Post by Kevin Lightdot » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:46 pm

Only high end mages can do anything at all.
Faladron, stop talking shit.
"Oh I'll cap my parry and dodge on that pack of mummies using 25~ health potions in 10 minutes" < that's not happening, and if it does, someone should wave the ban-stick.


And what do you think will happen when a mage is found pging...
Seriously...
Nitram wrote:No, new potions from the druids. But they work different as the current ones. At least at the beginning.
You will see.
Sounds fine by me.

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Post by Retlak » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:53 pm

It's true, only high end mages can do anything effective (And beleive me there are less than you think).

Fact is Faladron you claim that a mage could single handedly take down swarms of quest monsters of other things alone. This is simply impossible, and always has been impossible. Mages always have to travel with warriors when multiple npcs are about, targetting new monsters takes a few seconds, in which time you get beaten up, and that is only if you can even kill monsters in a few blasts, not many mages can.

For a mage to have effective spells, they will need mostly magic stats, and this means low constitution, no armour or else casting is bad. > Uber mage is not as uber as you think.


I suggest playing a mage before you argue against us, and learn how difficult it can be compared to warriors.

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Post by Llama » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:58 pm

Ok lets put it into perspective.

I have a mage, who can cast circa 15 fireballs or around 20 healing spells before his mana bar runs out.

The 15 fireballs are just enough to kill a cow.

So, lets say I'm walking down the street and I'm attacked by something which needs more then 15 fireballs to kill, what am I goign to do? Walk around until the mana goes up?

Similarly, if i'm hunting with a few friends, and one of them needs urgent healing, and I have already healed 20 times, what to do? Everyone runs around in cricles till I can get my mana back?

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Post by AlexRose » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:12 pm

@Maryday: There's a char ig who's spent a couple of gold buying runes from illegit teachers ig. You seem to be under a misapprehension if you think teachers would pay students for stuff. They already teach them, provide them with basic equipment etc. Most would think that's enough without having to pay them for chores as well.

And as for: "Zombies? how cute!"... WELL DUUUUH

I think pretty much anyone who's played a fighter for a day can take mummies. And owning 30 ogres? The only way I can think of doing that without using around 10 mana bars worth of kel ra qwans is to make a big line of flames, which are weaker than normal flames, high end skill and have quite a bit of mana usage, as well as the fact that you'd then have to make sure the ogres actually get into the flame and keep them there long enough for them to die.

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Post by Faladron » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:15 pm

Throwing more potions at the community won't solve the problems you mentioned though, as there'll always be some players who are faster than the rest and thus will be able to buy more potions for themselves.

If distributing the potions more equally among those in need of them is what you want to achieve then this proposal won't lead there.

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