Illarion.org

Kevin Lightdot wrote:I did not say that, I said, you do a quest to get something, then go to a teacher with it, and the teacher will after a bit of rp agree to teach it to you, If they want to teach by npc's completely, it'll be even less rp, I just found an inbetween example.

A teacher can still rp a bit with his adepts to make sure they can, but more adepts can be handled, alex.

More adepts than three can be easily handled. But we're not allowed to have more than that.

(Please change the teaching rules?)

Good point, if we got 2 or 3 more students each we'd be much more efficient.

I know more could be handled, but Nitram already said the plan was to automate the teaching, I just tried to look for something that still had that automated stuff, but would allow for some player teacher intervention.
Maybe he will try it your way, but if not, this could work.
Had I not thought of it, it might have not been thought of, and it might have been completely possible by npc. Lol, I said before I'd preffer complete player teaching too, but as said, unlikely to happen.


And if that doesn't work, the script could I assume easely be changed that instead of getting that item you get the spell if it still somehow proves not to work.

We will have NPCs AND PCs teaching. The teacher's adepts will have some boni from rping and not only skilling/doing engine quests.

Also, I mean they could change the rules NOW, so that we can start away with 5 or 6 students and not only with three.

They could try this, not my choise.

And obviously a teacher could still teach the rune without the quest, but it'd take some more lessons... I hoped you had understood this much.

Taeryon wrote:Du willst Halvdan ja wohl nicht ernsthaft zum Magier machen oder? Tut mir leid aber jeder der einen Handwerkskrieger-Char als Magielehrling aufnimmt sollte geprügelt werden bis er nicht mehr stehen kann.

Depp, ich nehm doch nicht Halvdan, der kann ja nichtmal seinen Namen schreiben. Jeder hier hat mindestens 2 Chars, mit wenigen Ausnahmen. Ich also auch, also denk mal etwas nach!

So? You gonna let us take more students?

Yeah, can we raise the limit up to 5 - 7 please?

There was a reason for 3 apprentices and 3 pre-apprentices.
Many of them want to become teachers themselves.
Start with the like, 5 active teachers we have now.
Multiply by, let's say, two (counting that only 2 of 3 may want to become teachers).
Then, these new teachers ahve apprentices too.
Multiply by two again.
After two generations we can already have 20 mage teachers.
The third comes with 40...
Means that kinda everyone in illarion will be a mage by then.
And that's only the ACTUAL teaching system.

Teachers must manage their students. If a student is inactive, it's his own fault. Contact him - that's your duty - ask him if he gets active, set him an ultimatum, and if he can't fulfill it, set him inactive and get a new apprentice. The old one then has to wait until a slot is free again.
I had to do that with two apprentices already, and with 3-4 wannabe-apprentices.

Teaching rules won't be made together with players anymore, since that did not work and the most teachers failed completely.
The next generation of teaching rules will either be script-coded only, or replaced by scripts. Players just can't handle enough responsibility to rely on them, even if they promise ten times. We've learned from that. And sicne we don't have enough GMs for the teaching job, which will only cause players to complain about "favouritism" anyhow, the actual rules will stay fixed until the magic / teaching scripts have been modified enough to work without any necessary player responsibilities.

Yes, but the difference is, Taeryon and I actually CAN xD.

Look at it this way: We know what it's like not to have an active teacher, and let me tell you, it's piss annoying sometimes. Obviously e.g. when my mocks come closer I may not be able to teach EVERY student EVERY week, missing maybe 1 or 2 lessons, but I won't make a habit of this. If Taeryon and I successfully and actively taught 6 students for 2 months each we would have 12 new potential teachers plus us already and any other ones that may be around, say maybe 18 teachers now at this point, that's 54 students, or if 6 each, 108

Obviously not every would become a teacher and we would probably purposely limit how many there were so it wouldn't be ridiculous.

(Yes you heard me, imagine this: we'd have to LIMIT teachers because there'd be so many places open for mage characters).

18 runes, that's 9 weeks, two months. That's not long. If you think I can't log in an hour a week for 2 months you obviously underestimate me

To be honest, I'm a bit confused about this.

Damien wrote: Teaching rules won't be made together with players anymore, since that did not work and the most teachers failed completely.
The next generation of teaching rules will either be script-coded only, or replaced by scripts. Players just can't handle enough responsibility to rely on them, even if they promise ten times. We've learned from that. And sicne we don't have enough GMs for the teaching job, which will only cause players to complain about "favouritism" anyhow, the actual rules will stay fixed until the magic / teaching scripts have been modified enough to work without any necessary player responsibilities.

Nitram wrote: Now the second time. Player teachers are NOT REMOVED. You even get advantages as student of a player teacher, compared to a NPC teached person.

Sorry, if I get something wrong, but HUH???
Can't even imagine how this should be fitting...

Or I really missunderstood something, here?

Its possible to limit with the scripts how many runes a teacher give out in a month. Thats what Damien tryed to express.

Nitram

Thanks. All clarities eliminated.

Damien wrote:Start with the like, 5 active teachers we have now.
Multiply by, let's say, two (counting that only 2 of 3 may want to become teachers).
Then, these new teachers ahve apprentices too.
Multiply by two again.
After two generations we can already have 20 mage teachers.
The third comes with 40...
Means that kinda everyone in illarion will be a mage by then.
And that's only the ACTUAL teaching system.

You didn't count all those becoming inactive.
Initially, we had 9 magic teachers. Of them, only Sideon and Damien are... well, let's say "active". (I have my doubts...) Damien hasn't logged in since more than 3 weeks now, so considering him as "active" is not really accurate.

So, this means only Sideon is active anymore. This makes a drop out rate of about 89% within a year. Please consider that in your calculations.

Martin

Damien is currently a statue at the Magic Academy. I don't know about you but I think a statue would have quite a bit of trouble teaching. From what I heard that was due to a quest, so I guess I can't really blame him for not teaching.

As far as I know Silas and Ava teach, Silas just finished with students as I know. I have no idea what happened to Athian. I was told that Duncan teaches. And if I remember correctly, PO Samantha was chased out by the staff. *Shrug* but I won't be opening that can of worms. I am not entirely sure about who is active or not, but it is obvious to me that people who lost their mage teachers are active and do want to teach. So why not try again?

Edit: Opps, I forgot poor Dji who died ig. >.< Sorry Dji, didn't mean to forget you.

Amira Ranevskaya wrote:As far as I know Silas and Ava teach

Ava?! No...

Silas just finished with students as I know.

*Silas finished with one student 2 months ago (Will who is now a teacher).

I have no idea what happened to Athian. I was told that Duncan teaches.

Duchan finished teaching Taeryon who is now a teacher.

And if I remember correctly, PO Samantha was chased out by the staff.

No, Patric left in a mood because Martin and E-Vil burned down Samantha's house.

*Shrug* but I won't be opening that can of worms. I am not entirely sure about who is active or not

Evidently


Anyhow: I dunno about Taeryon but I WILL be active, and I'm gonna make sure my students all get 18 runes or more. (Enough to teach)

Amira Ranevskaya wrote:Damien is currently a statue at the Magic Academy. I don't know about you but I think a statue would have quite a bit of trouble teaching. From what I heard that was due to a quest, so I guess I can't really blame him for not teaching.

We could say that about all magic teachers actually.
I don't care why someone does not teach and does not log in. I bet he could have been back to normal if he urged to, but obviously this does not have a high priority.

He is inactive as a magic teacher for whatever reason. (Oh, and it's not that he was really very active before becoming a statue of whatever spice)

As far as I know Silas and Ava teach, Silas just finished with students as I know.

Silas Farron was not logged in since 34 days -- he's probably a statue made of pepper standing somewhere on Greenbriar. And therefore it's perfectly fine that he doesn't teach

I have no idea what happened to Athian. I was told that Duncan teaches.

Athian didn't log in for a long time, however he logged in the day before yesterday. I wonder what made him, probably one of his students spammed his msn or something.
The very same thing holds for Duchan.

And if I remember correctly, PO Samantha was chased out by the staff.

You must be mistaken. PO Sam left Illarion by his own will, after the giantic house that Sam half legaly owned burned down by an "accident" and she was offered to pay just 1/3 of the reconstruction work which still would have left her the richest character in game.
If that is "chase out", well, maybe you're right. However, I don't think so.
BTW: Sam didn't teach for a long time previous to that incident because she somehow tried to blackmail the staff to change the magic system. As long as we don't change it, she said, she would stop teaching. I think that the truth should be mentioned somewhere.

So why not try again?

The "real"-experiment has shown that this system does not really work; it frustrates a lot of people (mind you -- those among the students who were so frustrated to leave Illarion didn't say anything because they left Illarion. Only those NOT being too frustrated are able to say that they're not too frutstrated...)

Edit: Opps, I forgot poor Dji who died ig. >.< Sorry Dji, didn't mean to forget you.

I didn't forget about him.
But actually, you see, statistics say that there is a HUGE drop out rate.

Martin

I stand corrected, I just heard that there was a 10th magic teacher who became inactive (as a teacher) and deleted the teaching character.
That raises the drop out rate to 90%. 9 out of 10 teachers became inactive after a year. Please consider that!

Martin

Nitram wrote:Its possible to limit with the scripts how many runes a teacher give out in a month. Thats what Damien tryed to express.

Nitram

*coughes* Just in case, I would rather control the number of runes a char can learn than how many a teacher can teach. While the first would control the number of new mages, the latter controls how fast a mage can advance. The big difference is that NPC learned runes could be taken into account, too and we'd have a more pyramid distribution (many weak mages, few strong ones instead of few mages at all ). Per chance, have you taken a look into that bard magic concept I wrote?

BTW: Sam didn't teach for a long time previous to that incident because she somehow tried to blackmail the staff to change the magic system. As long as we don't change it, she said, she would stop teaching. I think that the truth should be mentioned somewhere.

Even so i am not playing anymore i am reading the forum from time to time. and this part of your post surprised me. Since it is simply not true. I don't know from where you got your informations or ideas, but i never stopped teaching while i was active just to blackmail anyone. Actually i was active teaching my students until the moment that situation which made me leave happened. And btw. I am, or was, one of the few Teachers who thought the teaching system is good and should stay like that, except the amount of students, which is why i suggested that any teacher can have three students and three wannabe students. And no, i wont talk anymore about that "thing". But I would be very thankfull if you could avoid spreading untrue informations (also called lies) about me after I am gone. That is not the nice and fair way to handle something, right? Thanks and Bye.

p.s. and we agreed already in the past that my char wasnt and would never be the richest char. we found out that you thought this because you misjudged the value of silver and goldcoins. i am really wondering why you dont stop mentioning the same mistake of you again and again. Really martin...please stop spreading wrong infos about me. Thjat is really childish. Wasnt it you in the past who mentioned again and again that you need right facts and proofs for your arguements when leading a discussion or struggle about something?

You are right, I forgot about this.
But I just checked, considering only "fair" and "active" chars, Sam would still be in the top 10 of the richest chars in Illarion.
As for refusing to teach, I will try to find references. Be sure that I will find them. (I have to admit that I did a quick search but couldn't find anything regarding that matter, however, I found a lot of more or less amusing stories about Sam, maybe I should give out some "readers digest" version one day )

Martin

Damien, limiting the number of students to three had some sence when there were 9 (or ten, whatever) teachers, because that would've been 27 students together. But now, that we have 4 active teacher left, only, that would make a total of 12. So please raise the number to a maximum of 5 students/teacher, to put the whole thing up to 20, whcih would still be less than with the old system. And complaining about players who don't care for teh rules, I guess you mean me. And I asked a gm, while Avalyon asked two, before we did that. I'd never risk to get banned because of stupid rules. I asked around. Please consider that before you call the players unresponsible.

Anyway.... moving on before a flame war starts...

I am courious to see what happens with the next generation of teachers and what will happen to those who had teachers who are no longer teaching. I truely think it is possible that things may change. There are mages to be who honestly want to become teachers and there are mages who have just now become teachers. I don't think that Alex or PO Taeryon will become inactive anytime soon.

Duchan finished teaching Taeryon who is now a teacher

Duchan kindly plans to teach Kaila (will be her third teacher) who also wants to teach.

If Alex is right, and all his students get 18 runes, I would like to teach. I would prefer to take only one student though... Is that possible?

Executor wrote:If Alex is right, and all his students get 18 runes, I would like to teach. I would prefer to take only one student though... Is that possible?

Possible but not very productive. You may change your mind though, wait and see.

habe ich das alles jetzt wieder und wieder studiert, aber wo findet sich den überhaupt ein lehrer? die wenigen, die ich bisher traf wollten oder konnten gar nicht rp'en, was immer so verlangt wird sondern war nur neusprachliche , arrogante....ich würde ja schon gerne mal wissen wer, wie und wann magier werden darf!

Wer?
Jeder der die richtigen Attribute und 18 Runen hat.
Wie?
Tja leider gibt es keine Ig Regeln, ich sitze mit meinem Char auch auf dem Trockenen, weil anscheinend keiner weiss, wer die Bhona Rune geben darf.
Wann?
Sobald man die Ausbildung abgeschlossen hat und die Bhona Rune hat.

Pell ab 18 Runen ist man ausgebildeter Magier bekommt man dann auch noch Bhona ist man Lehrer aber keiner ist verpflichtet seinem Schüler Bhona zu geben. Der Schüler muß zeigen das er Lehrer werden will und dann um die Rune bitten. ^^

Schüler kann jeder werden der die nötige Begabung hat. Damit mein ich nicht nur die nötigen Atribute sondern auch das nötige RP. Das RP hängt aber sehr von der Laune des Lehrers ab, darum mußt man auch gut entscheiden welchen man nimmt.
Das hat aber nichts mit "allmachtsgefühl zutun". Ein Lehrer der IG Menschen, Elfen, Frauen, Männer, usw meidet, hasst, für zu jung erachte usw kann nicht auf einmal so einen Char nehmen. Das wäre schlechtes RP von ihm selbst.

Also frag Lehrer die als moderrat gelten wie Nalcaryos, Tearyon und Duchan. Die anderen Lehrer haben immer etwas RP mäßiges was sie daran hindert jeden Char zu nehmen ... nach meinen Wissen. Die englischen Lehrer kenn ich nicht so.

Was ich da dumm finde das einige rummjammern weil es zu wenig Lehrer gibt und ander das es zu viele Magier gibt. Das momentane System ist nicht perfekt aber gut. Und laßt doch mal eure Chars nachforschewn woher diese viellen Kampfmagier kommen. Dann bekommt ihr mal einen AHA-effeckt.

Pell, wenn du mir einen GM sagst der das OK gibt und Pella Taer ig davon überzeugt dass sie seine "Auflagen" nun gepackt hat kannst sofort BHONA haben.

Zu der Sache mit dem "Wer darf Magier werden?":

Die Antwort ist einfach. Jeder der zumindest den Willen zeigt zu rpen. Ich weiß nicht ob ich da alleine stehe, aber ich hab einen Schüler aufgenommen der sich noch nicht mal richtig mit Illa auskannte, es sich aber im RP hat zeigen lassen. Dieser Schüler passt auch vom Charakter her zu Taeryon. Wie Saril schon gesagt hat haben die Lehrer auch bestimmte Eigenschaften die einen Bewerber von vorne herein für sie ausschließen. Bei Taeryon wäre das zum Beispiel wenn der Char keine Kritik aufnimmt u./o. umsetzt oder zu kindisch ist, etc. Die Rasse ist Taer dagegen egal, was bei anderen Lehrern vielleicht wieder eine Rolle spielt. Also nochmal: Wenn ihr Willen zeigt, habt ihr wenigstens bei mir eine Chance. Ich hab sogar schon einem PK-Noob der mich wirklich aufgeregt hat die Chance gegeben dass er in ein oder zwei Wochen nochmal kommt damit ich sehen kann wie und ob er Fortschritte gemacht hat. Magier werden ist nun wirklich schon lange kein Ding der Unmöglichkeit mehr.