Inactive mage teachers / Inaktive Magierlehrer

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

Moderators: Gamemasters, Community Managers

Posts: 2959
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:34 am
Location: The land of cuteness and stuff!

Post by Quinasa » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:46 pm

Pellandria wrote:How old is the question, the book old or the sacrifice stone old?
Sacrifice stone old. It's one thing to depend on other player characters for things like food or armor or garden work, but it's completely different (in my opinion) than depending on another person with your character's future as a mage or a smith or any other profession. If a baker isn't around you can still eat apples. If a teacher isn't around you're SOL. :/

Posts: 2604
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 5:06 pm
Location: Running around

Post by Pellandria » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:49 pm

Tell me what the big advantage of an npc teacher is?
It has more disadvantages than advantages, I know we got problems with the current system as people wait too long and so on, but the npc will just change that nearly every char will know ancient, something that I allready dislike because it seems that some chars, who aren't even mages or such, can speak ancient allready, so there is no need for ancient anymore as everyone can speak it and that some people gain acces to the ground types of magic like ems pen and such, but as I said it won't teach any rp at all, if you want the old "everyone can use Magic" system back bring in the books and go, because no matter how hard any quest will be, someone will spread the solution and then its all gone to waste, all newbieswannabemages will go and get the runes, magic is allready looked weakly upon resulting of the weak power of the ground spells, heck people don't even fear illusions, this will just downgrade Magic to something like a normal craftman.

Developer
Posts: 7638
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 am

Post by Nitram » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:08 pm

My turn!
Pellandria wrote:...
Hello Pellandria
Pellandria wrote:Tell me what the big advantage of an npc teacher is?
Someone is able to learn magic even if all player teachers are inactive.
Pellandria wrote:It has more disadvantages than advantages,
For the point that it would work, it as already more advantages.
Pellandria wrote:I know we got problems with the current system as people wait too long and so on,
We have problems? Really? In my point of view the current system does just not work. After more then one year, there are 3 new teachers. Impressive ( and the main part of the old teachers is inactive )
Pellandria wrote:but the npc will just change that nearly every char will know ancient,
Only the characters with the needed attributes. And the learning of ancient is not binded to the learning of magic directly.
Pellandria wrote:something that I allready dislike because it seems that some chars, who aren't even mages or such, can speak ancient allready,
But thats the fault of the players, not of the npcs. Those who were in charge gave to books out of the wrong persons.
Pellandria wrote:so there is no need for ancient anymore as everyone can speak it
Cool second common language. It is allready this way. The current not working system didn't stop this happening.
Pellandria wrote:and that some people gain acces to the ground types of magic like ems pen and such,
I see no disadvantage in this.
Pellandria wrote:but as I said it won't teach any rp at all,
Sounds like that "only me and my friends are able to roleplay" dunno but i think everyone who actually plays Illarion is able to learn magic.
Pellandria wrote:if you want the old "everyone can use Magic" system back bring in the books and go,
No. The books are old style. We can make much cooler things now you know? But basically we don't want that everyone can use magic, we want that more can use magic. Thats the whole point. Warriors still won't be able to use any kind of magic. They won't be even able to get runes.
Pellandria wrote:because no matter how hard any quest will be, someone will spread the solution and then its all gone to waste,
And still only a small part of the characters will be able to learn magic.
Pellandria wrote:all newbieswannabemages will go and get the runes,
okay, and?
Pellandria wrote:magic is allready looked weakly upon resulting of the weak power of the ground spells, heck people don't even fear illusions, this will just downgrade Magic to something like a normal craftman.
You can't know this. I wonder why some allways think they know bloody everything before it was even tried. Any kind of engine based teaching system can't be compared with something that was there before.

Don't look at everything with a "oh no, someone could get magic" before it was tried. We gave the current stuff a chance. More then one year. Many said it can't work. Including some Devs. And hell i put it in anyway. Now its visible that it does not work. The other were right, i was wrong. But it will be fixed.

Nitram

Posts: 2959
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:34 am
Location: The land of cuteness and stuff!

Post by Quinasa » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:11 pm

I don't mean it to sound like I don't appreciate all the hard work the Dev team has put into making the new magic systems, that isn't my intention. But sometimes when you improve something you find that it didn't need to be improved, or the method chosen isn't the appropriate one, and you have to start back at square one.

It doesn't make your efforts pointless, because you learned something. I just think the sacrifice stone way was the most player friendly way.

Posts: 2604
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 5:06 pm
Location: Running around

Post by Pellandria » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:24 pm

Allright then we will wait for the new system, I actually like a teacher system, its bad that suddendly so many teachers are gone, strangely such players who play this game allready for years, guess it was just bad luck in the end, so will the "new" system include the npc teacher+ strong runes only accesable from older mages or all on npc basis only.

I remember times where everyone could get magic and there weren't many good played "mages" back then, this all has changed and maybe I just fear that the good mage rp from the players, who are more or less handpicked, will faid into something.."normal".

Developer
Posts: 7638
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 am

Post by Nitram » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:35 pm

The point is Pellandria, its boring to teach.
At least for me. You see you have your students and you have to tell all students the same stuff about magic and all the stuff around. Again and again. once you got your teacher rune, you on your own can't become better and technically can't learn more. For many characters it was the target to become a master mage who is able to teach. They reach this goal then they fall inactive because it gets boring.

Posts: 2849
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:17 pm
Location: Green again

Post by Kevin Lightdot » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:43 pm

As Nits said, it's worth a try, atleast I think so

If babies get to annoying with their toys, you take them away, same goes with magic.

I'd prefer a soley player based teaching of magic too, but hey, it takes too long to get a chance at anything, there are to little players.

Give the new technique a shot, if it doesn't work, don't use it anymore.

Posts: 771
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:35 pm

Post by Taeryon Silverlight » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:55 pm

Kevin Lightdot wrote:As Nits said, it's worth a try, atleast I think so

If babies get to annoying with their toys, you take them away, same goes with magic.

I'd prefer a soley player based teaching of magic too, but hey, it takes too long to get a chance at anything, there are to little players.

Give the new technique a shot, if it doesn't work, don't use it anymore.
the new technique will freely spread runes to everyone, so all those who don't have a mage char now will be happy and those who have mages will be pissed. Since there are less mages then non-mages, the system will be kept and some mage-pos will quit and so on.

Posts: 2849
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:17 pm
Location: Green again

Post by Kevin Lightdot » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:03 pm

Taeryon Silverlight wrote:
Kevin Lightdot wrote:As Nits said, it's worth a try, atleast I think so

If babies get to annoying with their toys, you take them away, same goes with magic.

I'd prefer a soley player based teaching of magic too, but hey, it takes too long to get a chance at anything, there are to little players.

Give the new technique a shot, if it doesn't work, don't use it anymore.
the new technique will freely spread runes to everyone, so all those who don't have a mage char now will be happy and those who have mages will be pissed. Since there are less mages then non-mages, the system will be kept and some mage-pos will quit and so on.

Everyone with the needed attributes, and the will to do this 'quest for runes'.

As I said, I'd preffer it player teacher only too, andperhaps we should try this for a while more(Second batch of teachers may be luckier.)
But if not, what options do we have?

Developer
Posts: 7638
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 am

Post by Nitram » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:53 pm

More then a year is long enougth for a try. Its time to face the options and make the game a little more player friendly then it is now.

Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:35 am

Post by Amira Ranevskaya » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:15 pm

Maybe you could continue to allow the option of player mage teachers? Personally I am looking forward to working with a mage teacher. And I am sure a few mage teachers or mage teachers to be enjoy teaching and want to continue teaching. Do you think it would be possible for both systems to co-exist?

Posts: 677
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:52 am

Post by HolyKnight » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:21 pm

Nitters how long do you think it will take to introduce such a system?

Developer
Posts: 7638
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 am

Post by Nitram » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:29 pm

@Amira: It was never part of the discussion to disable the teacher based system. If cause this will stay it will even stay in favor compared to the not-teacher-based system.

@HolyKnight: Longer. But Kadiya, martin and myself will start working at it soon. But it will take some time anyway.

Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:28 am

Post by Elaral » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:59 pm

After reading through this topic, a lot of to and fro and back again, one point still stands out. It is at the moment impossible to find a teacher. All I seem to do ist fight pigs to earn a little money to buy new arrows only to fight more pigs whilst keeping a look out for a possible teacher. This is anoying and THAT should change.
I don't care how you do it, just do something positive.

-------------------------------------

Nachdem ich diesen Thread duchgelesen habe, mit dem ganzen hin und her und wieder zurück, bin ich zu einem einzigen Entschluß gekommen. Es ist unmöglich einen Lehrer zu finden. Das einzige was ich mache ist Schweine jagen um ein wenig Geld aufzutreiben um Pfeile zu kaufen um wieder mehr Schweine zu jagen wärend ich auf der Suche bin nach einem möglichen Lehrer. DAS muß sich ändern.
Es ist mir egal was ihr tut nur solange ihr etwas positives bewirkt.

:)

User avatar
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:20 am

Post by :) » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:33 pm

It's nice that a lot of players can go around and swing Harry Poter staff.. but it would be nice if a mage asks a player "before" healing him...
It's been now 5 times I try to roleplay an injury.. and then some mage just comes and does [anc] ***** ** * *** ***
And there, no more roleplay.
#me heals the man.
It's kind of ridiculous...

Posts: 1876
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:20 pm
Location: All over the place.

Post by Mr. Cromwell » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:50 pm

Just roleplay "the healing does nothing". Then be angry at the mage for lack of skill in healing.

Simple. :wink:

Posts: 1799
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:44 pm
Location: Yes.

Post by abcfantasy » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:52 pm

:) wrote:It's been now 5 times I try to roleplay an injury.. and then some mage just comes and does [anc] ***** ** * *** ***
And there, no more roleplay.
#me heals the man.
It's kind of ridiculous...
Sounds like an Elderberry! :P

Developer
Posts: 12211
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
Location: Sir Postalot

Post by Estralis Seborian » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:59 pm

Or attack him for performing evil witchcraft! Or even better, get a bunch of Nordmarkmen to beat him up.

Now, seriously, as some might know, I have made up a concept for bard magic. In this concept, I made up a "new" way for learning runes: A bard gets three tunes upon startup, enabling one simpel song. Basic tunes one can get from NPCs, by a very simple quest/task, just like the old runestone guardians. More advanced tunes can be aquired by solving more complicated quests, most quests will require the bard to cooperate with other characters. The best tunes, enabling the killer songs, can be teached from bard to bard or are awarded in contests or quests by GMs. I think this way, everyone has the chance to learn basic bard magic without too many problems, but the most powerful songs are somewhat restricted.

Posts: 771
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:35 pm

Post by Taeryon Silverlight » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:16 pm

Giving the best stuff out by GMs or as Questgifts only is never good. There is always someone who doesn't catch the GMs glance on him and those quests will, like almost every quest is, english, which disables the hawt stuff for some great rpers that speak German only.

Developer
Posts: 12211
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
Location: Sir Postalot

Post by Estralis Seborian » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:24 pm

1st: The word "only" does not appear in what I wrote. There is the word "or", meaning, both options can coexist. Please read more carefully.

2nd: You can be sure, when there will be bard contests or bard orientated quests, the language barrier won't be an issue as well as the spoken language will not decide who gets the tunes. Also, you can be sure that our players that don't live in europa, have much, much greated problems to attract the attention of the majority of GMs - few are online at 3:00 am german time on a weekday...

Posts: 771
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:35 pm

Post by Taeryon Silverlight » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:37 pm

I didn't mean to offend you. I like the ideas you have/had for the bard system. I just ment to do some critism

Posts: 7382
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 7:12 am
Illarion e.V.: Active Member
Location: vienna

Post by martin » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:45 pm

Nalzaxx wrote:Punishing players who are unable to meet a minimum time/teaching quota because of a poor system is both unfair and unintelligent.
Speaking of unintelligent:
A teacher who does not teach and therefore loses the possibility to teach is, in your eyes, "punished"?

If this is the case, we have a real problem. We can't talk to eachother then, because obviously the words we use do not have the same meaning for you and me.

So, taking away something that you do not use and do not need by the real owners (us, the staff) is punishment, yes?

Well then.

Martin

Developer
Posts: 12211
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:14 pm
Location: Sir Postalot

Post by Estralis Seborian » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:45 pm

No offense taken :P

You are right that a GM-only-system won't work out. But I think it can be a good method to introduce the very best tunes by events to the game. These tunes can be taught from bard to bard (high skill required to teach and learn) afterwards. But also, from time to time, new events and quests could take place. As long as only the most powerful tunes are treated this way, no problem will arise.

Posts: 2604
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 5:06 pm
Location: Running around

Post by Pellandria » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:49 pm

A gm quest for runes/tunes is a great Idea, seriously, I had a little quest with Noradur aswell and I liked it and a competition of bards, maybe with selfwritten Songs...wow.. great : )

Posts: 7382
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2001 7:12 am
Illarion e.V.: Active Member
Location: vienna

Post by martin » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:52 pm

Pellandria wrote:A gm quest for runes/tunes is a great Idea, seriously,
It isn't.
Because GMs are lazy. It will not work, I'd bet on it.

Martin

Posts: 2959
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:34 am
Location: The land of cuteness and stuff!

Post by Quinasa » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:40 am

martin wrote:
Pellandria wrote:A gm quest for runes/tunes is a great Idea, seriously,
It isn't.
Because GMs are lazy. It will not work, I'd bet on it.

Martin
I'd bet on it, too. Have you met the GMs? (I love GMs...)

I still like the old old system with the sacrifice stones, that way you can get the rune and practice with someone more learned, you can have the rune and while you're learning with/from one-another you still have control over what you're learning...

Posts: 3901
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2003 9:22 am
Location: Farmer's Union

Post by Gro'bul » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:52 am

Not to mention to get some of those runes, you needed some badass stuff to sacrafice. :shock: That makes alot of work, a n00blet will not even know where to start to earn a rare item.

Posts: 2604
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 5:06 pm
Location: Running around

Post by Pellandria » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:39 am

the only "real" badass stuff was kel with the cebird and tah with the wand, everything else was more or less normal stuff.

Developer
Posts: 7638
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 9:51 am

Post by Nitram » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:06 am

Something we can change, Pellandria.

Posts: 4790
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:18 pm
Location: Megajiggawhat?

Post by AlexRose » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:34 am

abcfantasy wrote:
:) wrote:It's been now 5 times I try to roleplay an injury.. and then some mage just comes and does [anc] ***** ** * *** ***
And there, no more roleplay.
#me heals the man.
It's kind of ridiculous...
Sounds like an Elderberry! :P
I've not done that since the first time I got flamed :P

Regardless: I don't think Tae and I will be inactive, considering we've both seen how annoying it is to have inactive teachers.

Return to “General / Allgemeines (Player Forum)”

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
Designed by ST Software.