The whole TB-Governour-Thingie

Taliss Kazzxs · Post by **Taliss Kazzxs** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:23 am

I personally am a bit disappointed with the entire thing as well. the invasion it self was a bit to sudden and the ending just feels ..with out satisfaction and empty. Simply put there were a ton of chars wanting to take the town back and as the previous lieutenant of the town I figured I would be alright for Tally leading that. I hope my rp was acceptable and I didn’t step on anyone’s toes ooc. And as a side note a lot of good rp happened outside of the main events that being pretty cool and keeps the situation from having been completely pointless.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:25 am

What I didn't like (being totally fair)

Is the whole "Undead attack crisis" which the town got. Sure random attacks are fun, but not when there are only 6 characters in the town (and NOT demon skeletons).

Taeryon Silverlight · Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:28 am

Hadrian_Abela wrote:What I didn't like (being totally fair)

Is the whole "Undead attack crisis" which the town got. Sure random attacks are fun, but not when there are only 6 characters in the town (and NOT demon skeletons).

Say thank you to Nitram and his boredom about that.

Retlak · Post by **Retlak** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:30 am

You can also thanks me for the massive amount of mummies.

Taliss Kazzxs · Post by **Taliss Kazzxs** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:31 am

I forgot to comment about that..

from what I understand any of the gm actions were to just make things a bit more interesting, its just the time they decided to do things were very bad for Silas and his guys. I don’t believe there was any direct gm intentions on making the government look bad, it just happened that way.

Talirea Iomee · Post by **Talirea Iomee** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:34 am

Silas Farron wrote:DAMN, ITS MEDIEVAL xD

Oh is it? Sure there are parts of medieval ages in Illarion... But in my opinion it's more than that... It's a fantasy world...

Or did you ever hear of real dragons or mages in medieval?
Why shouldn't there be the possibility of democracy?

Oh please...
There were some things that didn't work like it was planed I think, ok... but...

It's a game... And games are there to have fun... So come on guys, don't take it that bad...

Juliana D'cheyne · Post by **Juliana D'cheyne** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:42 am

I enjoyed the take-over, my char did no fighting and on the whole, I thought it was good time. I also am not fond of the "testament" thing, nor of the trader strike.

Like I mentioned on msn Silas,
Even though a medieval fantasy, it would have IMO a more "medieval" feel, if there were Kings and Queens with Lords and Ladies versus the democracy that seems to be in all towns. Be it a "good" or an "evil" King, would make for more interesting times and possibly make the towns seem not so much alike.

Lamar · Post by **Lamar** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:48 am

I liked the idea of the "invasion in trolls bane". This game would become boring without people with new ideas and the readyness of being eager to experiment. So, thank you PO Silas, William, Warrior Queen Kurga......... In my eyes, you keep this game alive.
Great that PO SIltaris to let this happen. Bad that some people feeled pissed cause of these new happenings. I prefer to handle such happenings in game, and not complain about it ooc.

PO LLLLLonfurd

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:47 am

I never liked the idea of a player run Trollsbane (since it just doesn't work) I vote GM 4 prez.

Mr. Cromwell · Post by **Mr. Cromwell** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:50 am

As it might have been noticeable, I didn't really fancy the "Testament" either.

It might just be the old-skool me, but when you give up your character (which always deserves respect) what you don't do is to make another character to push the dead character's agenda in any way. I've never been that fond of the current habit of tons of people to share each and every of their characters with everyone (while they are still active) either.

Back in the good old days.. *goes on to rant like a real old timer*

Many things were managed badly (including the fight and initial takeover) but the testament seriously sapped my motivation to get really into the new sitiuation. Anyways, now we know better and hopefully nothing like that shall happen next time. Thanks to all involved from me.

@Grobby
It's because everyone and their grandmothers own something in TB. Try to do something and the "ZXY" will get pissy, try to reform "ABC" and the ancient order of purple underpants crawls from under some rock and voices their dissent. The government typically doesn't have what it takes to tell them off and nationalise everything.. mainly because half of the city troopers are from "ZXY" and in "The Ancient Order" with hostile forces camping in the heart of the town on property owned by "123". This combined with the usual "Liberal democracy"-thing with "Human rights" approach on problems is enough to ensure inefficiency.

But still, I'd keep the GMs at an arm's lenght from running any IG things. It will only end up in a total catastrophy.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:29 am

the "battle" was not perfekt, but fun.
(especially, observing all those clouds run into the cowshed...)

the testament:
Silas, who did write?: "DAMn, ITS MEDIEVAL xD " ???
why did you, as conquerer, not just declared it null and void?

trader's strike:
that is marvellous. because just that should happen after an occupation.
it is the new leaders job, to bribe or threaten the traders, to open up business again.

the mummies and skeletons:
instead of those i would have liked to see terrorist... eh, excuse me, "robin-hoodish" attacks by the driven out forces.

the different "owners":
the conquerers had the might. why did they not declare all foreighn ownerships void, and wait for possible attacks?

the world is fantasy!!:
fine. but it is far more medeival, than modern age.
(in the middle ages, they at least beleived in dragons...)

democrazy:
no, that is no tipo.
why some (few) players play democratic behaviour as crooked as any professional politican, most players still seem to beleive, what the have been teached about democracy in school. - blue eyed and full of a lot of "should be".

how do you expect a magic user or even a top fighter and dragonslayer, to obey laws made by peddlers and farmhands?

silas, in my opinion, after winning you made just one mistake: you did not RULE!

Frederick D'Aubigne · Post by **Frederick D'Aubigne** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:48 am

Hey people,

Welcome to life

Silas, I think you did awesomely. It's medieval, and you obviously were roleplaying medievalish all along. My character was hostile, but honestly, it was all in-character. It was very realistic. I enjoyed reading everything and the few conversations in game. It really got into a political conflict mood, and that was truly nice. I don't think you should see this as something bad, it only adds more pages into the history book of Illarion. I've been drinking a bit earlier, so I can't think much, but truly, don't feel bad. OOC happens in every single game, without it, the game is boring. Things HAVE to be arranged OOCly, some things were arranged OOCly, and it made the whole 'event' nice. Bah, I don't make much sense I know, but seriously, I think you did great.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:50 am

hey frederik,

if you don't have to say something, just shut up!

(that was written, before he added some content.)

thank you.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:01 am

((OOC NOTE: I am disappointed in the actions of GMs that have seeming taken the side of the opposing force to the new government. There has been a mummy attack, that talk in Hadrian's post of demon skeletons(Not sure if that is true or not.), the golem, and the merchant halt. All these things WERE done by GMs and or Devs. I am not for sure if this is intentional or not, but it is certainly an advantage to the opposing side for more than one reason. If this was all a coincidental accident, I suggest that such "Quests" and the like are taken into consideration on when they directly effect in game happenings amongst players that are not quest related.))

~Me...

Dantagon Marescot · Post by **Dantagon Marescot** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:18 am

I just hope in the end no one had an real hard feelings. In my opinion it was all out of fun. Personally I would have liked for things to last a little longer with a little more things going on. A war may have been more interesting, not just an hour long (or how ever long it was, I wasn't in my dorm when it happened), battle. Thanks for the fun Silas, though I wasn't in game enough to experiance it.

Korm Kormsen · Post by **Korm Kormsen** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:55 am

you will be back in two or three weeks?

why not think about a second go? i doubt, that something strong will be in place still then.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:34 am

The whole "I want a democracy" thing I didn't like.. at all.

We are talking about a medieval period (yes even if its fantasy). A person just came with an army and killed all the defenders. The people's first reaction would be to shut up and make sure they don't get killed.

In the olde days, if you so much say anything against the king, you'd be tortured and killed. In this game, things don't work out that way, simply because you can get killed 99 times and still rise again.

People should RP being scared of death, or at least in fear and awe of what happened, not liable to boss the new governer around "because we want elections".

The whole underground rebellion IS however great roleplay.

Post by **Nitram** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 11:30 am

I just want to state out that the mummies had nothing to do with any government stuff. They were meant to cause some fun, nothing else. I think they did.

The demon skeletons came over a portal book from the graveyard. So do not blame the gms for this. That was caused by players.

Nitram

Post by **Jupiter** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:05 pm

Nitram wrote:The demon skeletons came over a portal book from the graveyard. So do not blame the gms for this. That was caused by players.

I thought that monsters can't go through portals anymore.

Siltaris · Post by **Siltaris** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:13 pm

Hi there,

>PO Siltaris IMHO tried to just make things harder by posting this "testament" outo f OOC-reasons.

I did not know that POs feel so unconfortable with this testament. It was not my intention to decrease POs mood at all. Rather, it was a consequent step in the storyline and just an opportunity to let you react. The new government always had the opportunity to refuse the testament.
The consequence might have been another conflict between SB, Grey Rose and TB on the other side. Well, regarding the fact that you just had conquered violantly a whole town and have killed dozens of (innocent) people ig, I wonder why you hesitate to keep on following the storyline you have started.
Instead, first you have tried to find reasons against the validity of the testament. It was clear that this testament was righteous. So, in the end, after you have noticed that there is no way to reject the testament with "valid arguments", you have left your own storyline of violent conquerers and accepted the testament.

Even your whole behaviour after you have conquered the town was not very consequent in my opinion. As violent conquerers of a town whose citizens were not unsatisfied with their former government, by killing citizens and people when conquering the town, and by killing a highly liked and accepted person ig, I ask you: What did you expect afterwards? A warm welcome?

You tried to gain trust of folks and citizens. You have tried to legitimate your power. There was not much left of your army afterwards, which would have cared for the town. In my opinion, this behaviour was not very logic. When you play a conquering army, please play them well till the end and do not stop after conquering the town.

It is difficult, indeed. And it is difficult to be governor; in particular a governor with little money. However, this is what every leader of a town has to cope with: It is hard work to lead a town and it costs plenty of time.
It was clear from the beginning that it won’t be easy to hold that town. When you do not have the time nor the will to play that consequently, I wonder why you have started that war at all.

Well, yes, it maybe was a bit more difficult for you since you had no access to the town’s taxes. But I have not seen much efforts of you to do something to conhvince traders or to gain money in another way.
You could have talked to the traders. You could have tried to bring your own traders into town. You could have tried to get money from citizens you just have conquered. You could have taken the Seahorse and taken all the money of the former Governor. You could have spend more time in playing the situatuion after you have conquered the town.
Instead, all I have seen was that you have tried to justify your conquering. You have tried to explain what has happend. This is hardly appropriate behaviour of conquerers. You should have tried to play what will happen by following your own storyline of being invaders.

So, why did I do that testament?
There are some reasons for that.
IG reasons: It is logic that Siltaris has seen that people would try to get rid of her. She was not willing to give her property into the hands of unrighteful persons. She had the will that her efforts of the redesign of the town would be implemented.

OOC reasons: Since there was little ig response to the conquering at all, I thought that the new government needs a little challenge. It could have been easy decision by you: Accept or not accept. It was your choice. Your decision would have polarised, of course. It would have forced you to follow a path of your storyline consequently. It made the game more interesting in my opinion.
I wanted to see the rebuildings implemented, since I worked for that for several weeks. We will see, if this will work or not.

Game balancing reasons: Invaders of a town have to prove themselves when they conquer a town. If it is THAT easy to conquer a town within 5 hours and by doing so destroying structures which have been set up over 9 RL months, it would be a very bad example of game balancing. Others would come and take over the town again. Either for reason of just destroy what has been there before (no matter if it was good or not, just for change itself) or for reasons of money they could get from the traders. If you are not able to play your own storyline consequently till the end and if you are not able to get along with the ig situation for more than 2 RL weeks, I have strong dooubts if it would be good for ig situation to have such a new government.
I know that governing a town costs much time and efforts. I know that it is sometimes infuriatingly to get along with all the claims, questions, structures you have to deal with at the beginning of your governor-career. It would have been much easier for you to wait for elections to change something. Now you have chosen the more difficult way. You should have thought before starting this plot if you have time and the will to play it consequently. I feel sorry for those who accepted your storyline and now are left alone.
Though, I guess this is Illarion.

>The Staff was sometimes VERY unfair - the worst example: Once I edited the City-thread in order to actualize the Citizen's list - whom do i see added there? Siltaris. And I swear that was NOT me.

First, I did not even know up to now that her name was listed there once.
Second, there could have been lesser activity of quests to that time, yes.
Third, there always had been quests in TB and often quests of town attackings. This is what a government has to deal with.
Fourth, when you plan to influence the political ig situation that dramatically, you should have asked the main people involved before (GMs, Siltaris, Taliss,...). So, when you bring people to accept your stroyline, then you should accept their reaction on your doings. I really feel sorry for the rebellion who have roleplayed for nothing now as it seems...

>Every Char screaming for Democracy... DAMn, ITS MEDIEVAL xD

As far as I remember, the main point in starting this war was that Siltaris was accused by you to be a monarch, a tyrant, thus the opposite of democracy.
Second, when you play conquerers, you should not put efforts into legitimating your invasion. As conquerer you normally do not need the folks, you do not need their acceptance. But you hzave tried to gain it. This was democratic behaviour as well, in my opinion. If you do not want democracy, then do not play it. Be a good model.

It might just be the old-skool me, but when you give up your character (which always deserves respect) what you don't do is to make another character to push the dead character's agenda in any way.

What Jerimedes did was to bring a storyline to an end. There have been so many storylines in past which have been interrupted and not been continued at all.
The testament was a reaction to the storyline you have started. The testament was an offer. Noone was forced to accept it. A simple “no, we do not accept” would have brought the testament to an end. All I did with Jerimedes was to make clear that this testament is righteous. I brought you to the point where you could have said:
- we accept (then you might loose support in your own group of invaders)
- we do not accept (then you would be criminals... like you already have been ig; so it would be no difference)

It was the offer to continue your storyline in a more dramatic way. I wonder why you hesitated to follow, since this is what you as invaders have started.

Finally, the main shortcoming seems to me:
You have not played your own storyline in a consequent way. Think more before you start something like that the next time. And think about if change is always good. And if you can make it better.
It is your turn now.

Executor · Post by **Executor** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:15 pm

I found the mummies at least entertaining. The daemon skelletons were fun too:/ Simply because we had a real hard time fighting them. Too bad the server shutdowns kinda ruined it.

ThisGuy · Post by **ThisGuy** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:49 pm

since this is over does that mean that the merchants will start trading again soon?

its really hard being a new tradesman with 6 coppers and 1/3 of the tools needed

jregan91 · Post by **jregan91** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:50 pm

i agree its time the traders came back all thats happening is people who cant fight cause weapons and armor have broke etc. and smiths who are only just starting don't have a place to sell to and of course it is really unfair on new players who need the equipment to start playing, ok i am expecting some one to say oh but why don't you sell/buy to players and i am pretty sure no player wants 20 light shields and some new players just want to get round the isle fight a few monsters and then interact more frankly it is just getting really annoying ok it was a valid reason to begin with but now its just a real hindrance to everyone

signed jack fairfield

Miklorius · Post by **Miklorius** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 1:51 pm

I mostly agree with PO Siltaris!

But I don't want to just blame PO Silas for everything, because it seems to me you were left alone by your Caelum fellows right after the invasion - they just disappeared.

Silas Farron wrote:Ruling is BTW hard if you have no funds, no majority of manpower and many people against you.

Yes, it is. But that was not suprising! If there is no IG strategy for that, such invsion plans are doomed from the beginning. Again, where were the Caelum forces after the battle?
If the main goal was only to remove Siltaris because some Caelum boys were banned from TB and they now feel treatened unfairly (pleaded IG reasons: "corruption") and want to protect themselves because everybody believes they killed Siltaris, an invasion with no real conquering makes IMO not much sense.

Silas Farron wrote:Every Char screaming for Democracy... DAMn, ITS MEDIEVAL xD

Hm, no one cried for democracy! And a single governor is not really democracy. The citizens just don't want a foreign leader who illegally and violently invaded their town together with some criminals and undeads.

It is correct that the resistance should have started some guerrilla action right after the invasion, but as I said, if there is no conquering army in town anymore what should they do? So a concentrated counter-attack was planned the last days (for nothing now).

And if everything will go on with a bit logic, the invaders won't get away that easy...

Taliss Kazzxs · Post by **Taliss Kazzxs** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 2:33 pm

Miklorius wrote:the resistance should have started some guerrilla action right after the

you are aware that within an hour I attacked one guard and chased another down a well. A day or two after had a fellow lizard start trouble just to make the town guard "namely deuce" look like an idiot. We tried to cause a bit of rebellious trouble but it was actually hard to find any of the take over group around tb

Julius · Post by **Julius** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:07 pm

Nitram wrote:I just want to state out that the mummies had nothing to do with any government stuff. They were meant to cause some fun, nothing else. I think they did.

The demon skeletons came over a portal book from the graveyard. So do not blame the gms for this. That was caused by players.

Nitram

Omg, that was me..

I had to run from them so I opened a portal book. My bad Hadrian.

Oh and dude, I was actually planning some awesome Gurella Warfare. The war was over before I could get my plans into action.

Lrmy · Post by **Lrmy** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:25 pm

I did not know that POs feel so unconfortable with this testament. It was not my intention to decrease POs mood at all. Rather, it was a consequent step in the storyline and just an opportunity to let you react. The new government always had the opportunity to refuse the testament.

Do you not realize you were using OOC in game to a very high extent? You have no right to challenge a player's decisions in game with OOC in any way. Yes, in 5 hours you lost 9 months of planning or whatever. These things have happened to many people. All of them had story lines and things they wanted to get done as well.

Executor · Post by **Executor** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:54 pm

Taliss Kazzxs wrote:
Miklorius wrote:the resistance should have started some guerrilla action right after the
you are aware that within an hour I attacked one guard and chased another down a well. A day or two after had a fellow lizard start trouble just to make the town guard "namely deuce" look like an idiot. We tried to cause a bit of rebellious trouble but it was actually hard to find any of the take over group around tb

Yeah, and no offence but that was great rp. Attacking a char one hour after your own was clouded:P

Chars were indeed yelling for democracy (a vote)

nmaguire · Post by **nmaguire** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:14 pm

Taliss Kazzxs wrote:
Miklorius wrote:the resistance should have started some guerrilla action right after the
you are aware that within an hour I attacked one guard and chased another down a well. A day or two after had a fellow lizard start trouble just to make the town guard "namely deuce" look like an idiot. We tried to cause a bit of rebellious trouble but it was actually hard to find any of the take over group around tb

Not that the Caelum group ever caused any trouble, y'know, running around town, barricading themselves in the library and setting it on fire...

And obviously some people are going to be annoyed that they fought a battle for Trollsbane and now Silas has given it back, so perhaps THEY will cause trouble

And all this about "all the Caelum force disappeared" Maybe some chars were just happy with the bloodshed and vengance, and thought Silas would do alright rebuilding the town?
*sighs* I remember faking Will's death in front of Samantha.. good times

Executor · Post by **Executor** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 5:48 pm

The reason why Caleum did not keep supporting Bane was because of an internal gouvernor struggle I think. But that is IC stuff..

Illarion.org

The whole TB-Governour-Thingie

Re: The whole TB-Governour-Thingie