Death, and Healing

Post by **Nitram** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:16 pm

I have no idea what picture of druids you have, but it appears to be wrong.

Druids are NO mages. They can't cast.

Druids create potions. Thats it.
If they work as healer beside, thats okay. But they can't do this with any kind of magic.

Achae Eanstray · Post by **Achae Eanstray** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:04 pm

Then "Druid Magic" is simply the creation of potions as was done previously?

My picture of Druids is a large part healing, yes, I think most Druids also think the same. I don't imagine that most Druids consider themselves merely alchemists.

Post by **Nitram** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:04 pm

The upcomming ( without any time then it comes up ) druid system is about creating potions. Nothing else.
If someone has a picture of druids that is about healing, then this one is wrong.

Druids can be healers in the way, that they use their knowledge about plants and potions to cure wounds. But that basically works along with potions as well.

Nitram

Post by **Jupiter** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:29 pm

Well, druids aren't healer primary, in my opinion. That they are preety good healer is a side effect becasue of there knowledge about herbs etc.

magic of the druids...well...druids are somehow magic. But this magic isn't like the magic of the magician. The magic of the druids comes from there understanding and feeling for teh nature.
Look at this:
http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... ids+trolls
The druids of the forest healed the holy tree of the trolls. That is and exampel for druid "magic".

But this is offtopic. Sorry for that

Daelyn · Post by **Daelyn** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:25 am

Just ban characters for a week whenever they die...

wolfsword · Post by **wolfsword** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:16 am

:/ good...but what if (to limit the PK'ings of doom) the attacker who killed another player, has a hard time killing his next victim. (both NPC, and PC's) Like in RL, (for most people anyways) taking a life isn't easy, and have trouble getting used to it. So, the more a person inflicts damage on something...the more it can endure. But the point is, for all the n00bz that want to PK will have a hard time, might be unfair because of the older chars though. Oh and every so and so days that happen IG, the killing effects wear off.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:06 am

wolfsword wrote:Like in RL, (for most people anyways) taking a life isn't easy, and have trouble getting used to it. So, the more a person inflicts damage on something...

A soldier doesn't seem to have problems taking away lives, if he's paid to do that sort of thing. This is aimed at 'punishing' people who die, and forcing them to seek a healer for a nice roleplaying session and healing of their wounds.

People don't usually PK you unless they're idiots, or you attacked them first. The idiots who have half the town gang up on them will slowly lose their power, so no more ("Ok, the guard character isn't online, lets go raid the town") crap, and if you DO die, you are 'forced' to roleplay it, at least once every 5 times. I've seen people who died and just walked away as if nothing happened.

Daelyn · Post by **Daelyn** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:58 am

Daelyn wrote:Just ban characters for a week whenever they die...

I see that Adrian is trying to force people into rping when they die, and not only punish people who arent afraid of death. That's a great idea, but couldnt we do it in combination with a short ban of the char? Right now death is just rediculous. Any soloutions to how we can get around unintentional deaths? Like getting kicked while fighting?

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:13 pm

Daelyn wrote:Any soloutions to how we can get around unintentional deaths? Like getting kicked while fighting?

That's going to be solved when the next version of the client comes out. Thanks to Cassandra's work.

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:04 pm

Daelyn wrote:Just ban characters for a week whenever they die...

This is one of the worst ideas ever, sorry.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:54 pm

Nitram wrote:I have no idea what picture of druids you have, but it appears to be wrong.

Druids are NO mages. They can't cast.

Druids create potions. Thats it.
If they work as healer beside, thats okay. But they can't do this with any kind of magic.

herzlichen Dank, ich finde es sehr aufbauend, auf Tränkepanscher reduziert zu werden, nachdem die Druiden des Waldes völlig ohne Engine das Bild der Druiden ewig lang aufrecht erhalten haben

sorry, I should write it in English, as the topic was started in English:
thank you for reducing the druids to potion adulterating, after the druids of the forest kept up the image of druids even without engine

honestly, I know that engine-wise the druids are not much more, but let's take a look at the background, shall we?! let's see what Moonsilver tells us about the background ...

oh, what do I see at the top right of this moonsilver page? the title says: "magic"
*whispers "magic"*

Nitters, that was a hard punch, that truly did hurt

I know that you take care of the technical side, of the engine behind the roleplay, but this truly was desillusionating !

I don't wonder that there are hardly any druids left

Lennier · Post by **Lennier** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:11 pm

What we do with it ingame is an other thing. In a time, sciences were not sciences like today, every phenomenon in the nature was like magic. To brew beer or wine was a kind of magic. It worked, but noone knewn how, because of the lack of knowledge about the bio-chemical processes.

Ingame druids should be respected as mystic scholars. They have a secret knowledge about herbs and minerals and how to use them for different functions. That's a wisedom, which should look like magic in the eyes of the ingame people.

But infact in OOC-view the druidsystem like how it is planned since years, and how it get developed means, that the druid is an alchemist and maybe a healer - in general a former kind of a scientist. That is the way how he works. He mixes herbs and minerals and has knowledge about the substances of content and their use. And he knows how to use his products.

Salathe · Post by **Salathe** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:41 pm

Aurora wrote:thank you for reducing the druids to potion adulterating, after the druids of the forest kept up the image of druids even without engine

In this game, all druids were ever capable of was making different kinds of potions. Before the wipe, it was VERY specific ingame that druids could only make potions

Sorry to say... but any image more than that, which you worked to keep up, you also made up

Daelyn · Post by **Daelyn** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:49 pm

Estralis Seborian wrote:
Daelyn wrote:Just ban characters for a week whenever they die...
This is one of the worst ideas ever, sorry.

Great argumentation there...

Its a soloution they have chosen in some other MMORPGS, so it cant be that a bad idea. People would actually try to avoid death...

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:05 am

This isn't aimed at punishing people who die, but punishing people who don't roleplay it.

Keep that in mind

Pellandria · Post by **Pellandria** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:06 am

Daelyn wrote: Its a soloution they have chosen in some other MMORPGS, so it cant be that a bad idea. People would actually try to avoid death...

Wow you are playing like what.. two weeks..people fear death allready, not only that you loose equipment but also skills..so stop posting something "unsmart".

Faladron · Post by **Faladron** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:46 am

Yeah Daelyn how dare you join a discussion with a (harsh) yet constructive post and suggestion (which was falsified in the end, I admit).

Refrain from trying before you might come up with something that can't be prooven wrong and might contribute and count as a good idea...

(sarcasm ftw, just keep on posting Daelyn)

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:13 am

Daelyn wrote:Great argumentation there...

Its a soloution they have chosen in some other MMORPGS, so it cant be that a bad idea. People would actually try to avoid death...

There are some arguments against this.

Banning is a punishment for rule violations. You'd mix up ingame punishments with OOC-punishments
Banning does not punish the character but the player. I don't want to punish players to play this game in a valid way
Dying can be a vital part of roleplay as PvP can be. When a fight results in somebody getting banned for a week, PvP will happen rarely
The time after resurrection sometimes results in valuable roleplay. You'd take away any chance for this
When somebody dies by accident or from a PKer, he'd get banned for a week. Does not sound fair
After a large scale battle, the game would be deserted for a week and there won't be any chance for e.g. peace treaties
Newbies tend to die on their first exploration tour. Banning a newbie on his very first day won't motivate him to return after a week
Illarion's current design has the goal to have ~50 players online at any time. Thus, measures have to found to motivate roleplayers to play this game. Banning isn't very motivating.

All in all, something like this violated my vision for this game. It is not robust design among MMORPGs and won't fit Illarion. I don't know which games ban their players for playing it in a valid way, but just because other games do something, Illarion does not have to imitate it.

But keep on posting! Just keep in mind that suggestions sometimes require elaboration. Changes need good reasons for every change means work and most probably new problems.

Llama · Post by **Llama** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:18 am

Was thinking a bit, and I came up with this.

If you die, it is impossible for you to skill up for one RL day. This'll hurt Pgers most, and it'll prevent people from skill-farming the graveyard not caring whether they die or not.

Having said that, I'd really like it if the druids DO get a way to heal people out of the whole affair.

ogerawa · Post by **ogerawa** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:41 am

Hadrian_Abela wrote:If you die, it is impossible for you to skill up for one RL day. This'll hurt Pgers most, and it'll prevent people from skill-farming the graveyard not caring whether they die or not.

I think this will hurt RPers more than the PGers. Cause RPers tends to die more than PGers due to the PGers' experience in the area. PGers... rarely die even if they do skill-farming the whole day.

You might want to think the other way around. Think something that will benefit RPers rather than trying to destroy PGers, as it's been said by someone else from time to time ^.^

Konrad Knox · Post by **Konrad Knox** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:50 am

Yeah oger's dead on the point, lol.

Question to Nitram: if Druidry is exactly the same as it was in 2004, making potions out of herbs, what is the innovation of the druid system? Why was it shut down in the first place? What new things are worked on?

Post by **Estralis Seborian** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:06 am

Not being teh_nitterz:

The upcoming druid system will be more innovativ than the old one, featuring more effects. Also, at least this is planned, it won't be simple "one herb, one potion, one effect" system. The innovation will be that one can brew countless of different potions with various combinations of effects. But others know more details.

The druid system was thrown out when the old magic system was thrown out, after the charwipe. It took... years? to reimplement rune magic and the first version wasn't satisfying, thus, work was spend to have at least one type of magic working.

Konrad Knox · Post by **Konrad Knox** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:24 am

I remember old druid system had 2-3 herb recipes. Was adding more herbs impossible with the old system? Will making of wind arrows still be druid's trade? Will it require willpower and essense to become a druid?

ogerawa · Post by **ogerawa** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:37 am

In old system, it's the exact recipe thing. You have this, this, this and you make errmm.. that... xD

Juliana D'cheyne · Post by **Juliana D'cheyne** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:12 pm

Konrad Knox wrote:I remember old druid system had 2-3 herb recipes. Was adding more herbs impossible with the old system? Will making of wind arrows still be druid's trade? Will it require willpower and essense to become a druid?

In effect, if anyone picked the game/recommended skill version of a "druid" char they couldn't make potions in the past. Potions were easier made by a "crafter" char. The "game" will dictate what a druid char does technically......the making of potions...(more "alchemy" then anything else IMO) but rarely did an actual druid char do that ig, at least recently. Due to this problem, the "idea" of a Druid had evolved more toward the lines of moonsilver.