Discontent

[Japheth]

I'm going to keep this topic simple and brief.

Over the past day or so a lot of ludicrous behaviour has taken place on the off-topic forum. It resulted in the banning of several intelligent, witty and well liked players. And The Returner (just kidding Turny, I loves ya!).

Anyway. What's left behind is a somewhat unsatisfying situation. On one side, you have a group of people, left without the ability to post reactions, or even apologies. They're noticeably backed up by a significant majority of players and quite probably some right-thinking staff members such as Lianis and Estralis.

On the other side, are a group of entrenched moderators, growing more and more disliked by the larger community. They've done fine work in the past outside of the moderation sphere, but are now damaging their reputations noticeably and rather unnecessarily. I would probably be right in pin-pointing Keikan and Arien in being mostly responsible for yesterdays insane amount of bans and warnings issued.

It's true that Fooser and possibly Bei and Alex behaved in a decidedly reactionary manner when confronted with their initial dots. This is understandable on their part. Remember, they're posts are being entered into, altered by staff members and in nearly 100% of cases are left not making very much sense within the context of the larger topic. Frequently, snarky or offhand comments are left behind by the staff members editing the posts of supposed "offenders." These show a fundamental disrespect for the player whose comment or addition to a topic has been discarded or deemed unsuitable.

This leaves a situation where everybody feels disrespected, or poorly regarded. The players are left chastised, and very rarely are expressly informed of what precise rule they have broken. Conversely, staff members feel as if their job or work isn't appreciated. I know full well how difficult moderator duties can be, and how challenging it is. I found that the best approach was to eventually allow players carte blanche to behave as they will. Only intervene when there is obscene material, which can loosely be defined as bigoted material. I honestly don't think that satirical posting of former dictators is obscene.

The current moderation of the off-topic board is poor. There is a noticeable amount of over moderation, which frequently leaves posts nonsensical. The moderator's orange pen can be noticed in almost every topic. Similarly, the moderator's glib and rude comment often follows suit.
The moderation team is not cohesive. There are several somewhat liberal moderators Alytys, Lianis, et al, whereas there are hardcore reactionaries., who seem to find a real sense of satisfaction from pwning posters.

I'd simply suggest that both sides show sense. The moderators should offer a general amnesty to all those with red dots. Allow posters like Bei, Fooser and Returner to return. They add colour, variety and humour to the board that is otherwise sorely missed and replaced with insipid topics or poorly thought out discussions. The moderators should ease off and allow topics to develop naturally, instead of stepping in and removing the occasional silly piece of spam and replacing it with their own rude comments. The players, in return would hopefully show a more stringent and restrained attitude to spam. They wouldn't deliberately open a topic with "kthxhai," or "orly?" They would be permitted, however, to add comments like ROFL or lol to existing topics, as they are genuine, shorthand methods of expressing a thought or feeling.

Finally, a more extreme measure that might be suitable. Limit the number of moderators on off-topic. It honestly only needs three or four. I feel that somewhat more controversial members of staff like Keikan and Arien should be removed, and more level-headed types like Estralis, or that dashingly handsome type of chap Japheth be added to balance the scales.

Thanks for taking the time to read what eventually wasn't as short or concise a topic as I had intended.

[AlexRose]

Spot on; except I'd say one thing:

My posts weren't edited (mainly because there was nothing TO edit), and all my reaction was, was asking why I got the dot

Which is fair, I think

[nmaguire]

That sounds very, very good to me

[Taylor]

I have to concur with Japheth. The problem here is that the "entrenched" moderaters remove some satirical posts as spam, and leave there own rude and offensive material in their nice little Orange graffiti. It's obvious that both sides are angry with eachother, and Yet I find myself with Japheth, Inbetween the Players and the Mods as I should be.

I see that the players have a general disatisfaction with the way the dot system is being used. I understand that the banning of a player for a simple picture, or for voicing ones opinion, even in a Satirical sense is wrong. Also, giving a warning to people who voice their opinions against you is also rather harsh.

I see alot of resentment against Keikan, but as far as I've seen, He's only left some snide, and on a rare case, rude comment, deleting that persons post entirely. This action merely triggers the result of a repercussion, and is just adding butane to a fire.

Also, I see the mods point of view also, They have to deal with all their staffly duties as well as moderating the boards. Having the player base yelling at the wrong person, is not going to help them lax, nearly tighten their grip more, It's a cycle that I hope these rational posts will help calm.

I agree with Japheth that the OT Mods need to be narrowed down to 3-4 people. Although the chance of this request ever coming true is rather slim, It needs to be said. I'll leave my suggestions of people, and why below.

Estrails: He's always Been level headed, he thinks of both sides, and is always rational.

Lianis: Same as Estrails, Rational, and thinks before she posts

Thorvald: Thinks about what is posted, Rational thinking, and is always on top of whatever needs to be done

Japheth: Thinks out of the box, He thinks about why the poster posted what he did, and tries to see the point from the other persons point of view

Aleytys: As a Player, She sees what is wrong with whatever is said, She can see both bad and right in any arguement, and act accordingly without drawing conflict.

I merely hope that you can take time out of your day to read what Japheth and I have posted throughly, and Not skim through picking out what parts you find wrong.

Broc

[Skaalib Drurr]

At the end of the day, the staff make this game what it is. And perhaps you should all remember that, and indeed this. THIS IS A GAME! Chill out everyone. And if you don't like the situation, and how the rules are maintained, you know what you can do, there are thousands of other games to play.
And a boardban is not the end of the world, it is not permanent, and really, pratically, the staff cannot back down because of 'player power'. They have to be consistent. They didn't allow PO Stephen Rothman to stay, they cannot give precedent for other boardbans to be reversed. They should just serve their time, keep playing the game, and be happy.

[Feraiden]

I think Keikan is getting a bad rap here. Over-editing...maybe. That pales in comparison to over-banning. So really how it is: 1 mod gave 8-9 dots in one day, the other 8 mods of the forum gave zero. I think most can come to the correct conclusion about what the issue is there.

[Nitram]

Now it was said that the moderators have to see both sides. I wonder why only the moderators.

Jappy can imagin how it is to moderate such a board for sure. All others can try at least.

That you are able to see the side of the players, i have no doubt. Many players appear to feel pretty restriced at their freedom of speach.

But now have a looks over the Off-Topic Board. All of you agree that the board moderation is currently not... optimal. But what about the behaivior of the players. I can't say what the reason was that everyone got that crazy all sudden.
Turny got his "final" dot for a reason everyone was able to see clearly. But what was the point of all the ranting about the dots directly afterwards, about the banishing of Returner? In that moaning and ranting the source of more dots is. And i have no clue why it was needed to comment the red dot of Returner so... drastical.

At the end i see, that this ranting made the motivation of the developers after the rl meeting ( and the motivation is allways really high after ) vanishing completly. A major update was prepared but i doubt that will take place that soon, since the most of the developers are basically unwilling to do something now.
Was the ranting about the dot, the one who got it asked for, it really worth? Think about.

Now we come to the solutions of that problem

The solution i would prefer currently most, is the complete deletion of the Off-Topic board. I see no use in that board and all the ranting and bitching in there is not worth to keep it. The "funny and productive and nice" things made a too small part of that board.
But i fear around the half of the staff and the main part of the players will not like this, so i doubt that will happen so soon.

So what else are the solutions.

Leaving it there, unmoderated ( beside deleting possible spambots ).
What will happen then ( at least what i think what will happen ). I doubt that some of the players can get along with a unmoderated board. The general tone in the board will calm down slightly but the "behaivior" won't be what i would call nice.
The board will cause from time to time that one of the players / staff members will get demotivated and leave.
I can't say i like this way. Beside this some of the players will take that action as "victory" over the staff and the last remaining "respect" will vanish completly.

One other way would be, to keep the moderation like it is now. The players will go on bitching. Nothing else. And all the day we will have to care for it. And i would say in a few weeks we lost around 50% of our players and 90% of our staff members.

So what else should we do.

Reducing the moderation of the board slightly. But we have no choose Moderator who are not inactive and do not "fear" to take action. In case they take action players will start ranting again, like they did after the ban of Returner. Even after the reason was really good visible.

So what to do. Or in other words. Is there a use for the OT-Board and what is it?

Nitram

[Dariya]

I've been thinking for some time now if to post my two cents to this topic ...
... now I will, trying to stay factually in expressing my thoughts:

first and above all: the dot system has been established cause something had to be done. I've been reading the OT-boards regularly, though not posting that much. Some stuff was fun, some stuff redundant, unnecessary, but well, that's OT. However, many posts were simply offending, nasty, disturbing, disgusting ... in my opinion simply written to provoke and assault. Did anyone ever think that some posts might get the staff into trouble? It's not the one posting who will be contacted first if a post gets out .. let's say the legal line, it's the staff. This board in first place is related to the game of Illarion, not to some random stuff you have the urge to make public.

second: always keep in mind, that we all are guests here. We play for free, we are allowed to use the boards, to post, to rp, to express our opinions (if done in a correct way). The staff consist of people spending their time on Illarion for nothing, young people who also lead a life, who also have feelings, who also feel offended and sickened by posts like "I don't like this, make it like that, can we have it this way, that way would be better" and so on. They take care about many things, things I suppose most of us can't imagine, things they are not paid for, things which take time and nerves, I guess. And those people read some of them offending, nasty, disturbing, disgusting posts ... and maybe overreact. But if I would be in charge of the OT-boards, I tell you, it would have already been completely deleted weeks ago.

Everyone makes mistakes, everyone overdoes from time to time, that's simply human. But the OT-board has become really ... superfluous in my eyes. I evade it mainly, cause it simply sickens me to read most of the threads/posts when I get home from 9 hours work, do the things I have to do at home and want to spend some nice hours with Illa. I take a look at the boards to get the latest news, and I used to read the OT-board. But what I've been reading lately makes me discontent, yes. Takes away the fun I used to have with Illa.

To come to a conclusion: every deed, every action has a consequence. Think about this first. If not, you have to deal with the consequences. Later flaming, bitching, more offending won't help. My opinion: the OT-board is not needed. It you have the urge to make your feelings, phantasies and whatever public, create some new board, host it yourself, be your own mod, deal with flamewars yourself, cause that's what - apart from some of the OT-threads - the OT-board is about lately.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Word...kudos to nitram and dariya!

[Siltaris]

Since I have had a look into the OT-Forum only very rarely, I do not really know what has going on there. However, I agree with this statement:

To come to a conclusion: every deed, every action has a consequence. Think about this first. If not, you have to deal with the consequences. Later flaming, bitching, more offending won't help. My opinion: the OT-board is not needed. It you have the urge to make your feelings, phantasies and whatever public, create some new board, host it yourself, be your own mod, deal with flamewars yourself, cause that's what - apart from some of the OT-threads - the OT-board is about lately.

[Japheth]

Now it was said that the moderators have to see both sides. I wonder why only the moderators.

I'm sorry if that was intimated by my post, but that sincerely wasn't my intention. I stated that both sides are reactionary and respond in a knee-jerk fashion. However, as the people who are appointed as those "in-charge," the moderators should strive to see both sides a little harder than the players. It's similar to a teacher/student relationship. The emphasis should be weighted slightly heavier on the teacher part.

Jappy can imagin how it is to moderate such a board for sure. All others can try at least.

Yes, I can, and that's why I think my opinion should be considered in some semi-professional manner. I can only picture what the internal discussions occurring on the staff boards now, and from past experience I'd rather not. It's either all staff slapping each other on the back, or the slap split 50/50.

Turny got his "final" dot for a reason everyone was able to see clearly.

I'm afraid that I didn't and that consequently may be impairing by position in this discussion. From my personal understanding, I feel that he got his final dot for an open and frank criticism of the staff member Keikan. Perhaps he should have gone through the staff abuse e-mail method, but as we all know, Turny has a somewhat hot-headed attitude that can frequently be mistaken for rudeness or haste.

At the end i see, that this ranting made the motivation of the developers after the rl meeting ( and the motivation is allways really high after ) vanishing completly. A major update was prepared but i doubt that will take place that soon, since the most of the developers are basically unwilling to do something now.
Was the ranting about the dot, the one who got it asked for, it really worth? Think about.

I'm sorry, but I find this constant defeatist attitude of yours very, very tiring, Nitram. You are apparently one of the lead developers at the moment. You have nominated several people to manage the forums. They're doing this. Whether or not they're doing it successfully, is another matter entirely, but a temporary moderation method is in place. You and the technical developers shouldn't pay much attention to the board. You should focus on inputting new features into the game so that we can enjoy them. I'd suggest that your moderators take on an extra duty. They should compile a frank and full list of comments, criticisms, etc and submit them to you or another senior staff member on a weekly basis. You can then address them without getting involved in the daily debates, arguments and other things that occur on the boards.

... some of the players will take that action as "victory" over the staff and the last remaining "respect" will vanish completly.

I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be viewing your position in the staff and your relationship with the players as a battle that requires "victory" on either part. Again, this is contributing to a defeatist attitude that leads to the game not being updated. Similarly, you honestly shouldn't expect the players to have respect for you in quantifiable terms. Your position shouldn't be about amounting respect, it should be about mutual respect, being staff and players which will not be established until a fundamental rethink of the way in which the staff operates is undertaken.

Is there a use for the OT-Board and what is it?

Honestly? Yes, I think there is. It serves a meta-textual purpose of self-analysis, self-parody and self-awareness for the game, the players, staff and the concept of Illarion. The Illa-comic, how do you feel/think/smell are all excellent topics.

And to me, it serves a very special function. I've been unable to play Illarion for the past 6 months or so, due to time constraints and other reasons. It allows me to stay in touch with players who aren't on MSN, and keep up to date on the comings and goings of new personalities, potential Illa play-mates. In that sense, it serves a vital function. When I return to playing Illa within the next months or so (after exams!) I feel that I will still be aware of the player-base and in touch with current trends, attitudes etc. It'll be noticeably less difficult to rejoin the community, simply because I kept in touch with the off-topic board.

[Vilarion]

See this please: http://illarion.org/community/forums/vi ... hp?t=23276

[Japheth]

Yeah, I posted concurrently with Martin. The points and observations still stand, though.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

Great..now the peoples will continue spamming and flaming and posting useless nonsense. happy now japeth? *sighs*.

I think it is better to delete the offtopic area...i see few reason to continue it...it will be filled with too much spam and nonsense

[martin]

Deutsche Uebersetzung fuer alle nicht-Englischsprachigen:

Grossartig... jetzt werden die Völker weiterhin spammen und schimpfen und unsinnigen Unsinn posten. Glücklicher Japeth jetzt?

Ich glaube es ist besser das offtopic Gebiet zu löschen... Ich sehe wenige Gründe es zu verlängern... es wird mit zu viel Spam und Unsinn gefüllt sein.

[Samantha Meryadeles]

hast du einen online übersetzer verwendet?

[Lianis]

So what if its filled with spam and nonsense? No one is going to make you read it... just ignore it if you don't want to read spam and nonsense.

The only thing that really needs to be removed there is highly offensive, derogatory, or insulting remarks.

The Off Topic, IMHO, is there specifically to give a place for all the spam and nonsense and silliness that we dont want cluttering up the rest of the board. It's an outlet to blow off a little steam. Think of it as the recess area for all the little kids who've had to be good through the morning of classes where they have to behave. If you don't need that chance to cut loose, wonderful, don't bother with it. But for those who do need it, it's an important thing to have.

[Salhari]

I have read all of these posts about the dots and the OT board. I read, at least some of, the forums in the OT board every time i log in. True, some are just plain stupid, but some are actually enjoyable to get involved with. Everyone needs a place to escape and just act stupid every once and a while. Lianis, I agree totally.

[Damien]

About respect : Nitram does not mean to be especially respected for working in the staff.
What he is talking about is the necessary, normal level of respect that should be a basement for every communication between two human beings. Without it, communication is not possible on a friendly-normal base.

You are right, some parts of the off-topic-board are used well and are usually good for the community, like the "what are you thinking / feeling ... " topics. They usually are a base of expressing and communicating. Same to the illa comic, it is also a very great thing (even though nitters died in the prologue ! )

But there has been an increasing number of highly insultive, flaming posts/topics lately which had nothing to do with communication anymore. Those have proven to be extremely contra-productive - most staff members reduced their work on illarion due to be very demotivated, and some people (staff members(who usually are also players) and players) have left.
I also think that the OT-moderation is currently too much. The problem is not the number of moderators though, but the number of rules and a slight over-strictness in moderating.
The reason for those rules and the moderation, however, is a real one which has to be taken care of : There has been an increasing number of highly insultive, flaming posts/topics over the last year which had nothing to do with communication anymore.
I think that "Do not insult and keep it friendly" should be kinda enough for an off-topic. But everyone - player and staff - should stick to that.

And everyone, player AND staff, should be allowed to read and post on the off-topic. The staff, even the tech staff, is PLAYERS too. They are part of the community, and you can't tell them to let someone else summarize the boards for them. That would set too much distance.
That does not mean that one shouldn't post criticism. But it should come in a normal, friendly tone which does not lack the normal level of "respect" - you can also call it politeness - and not by flaming and badtalking. Always remember that the others you are talking to / about will read what you write, and they are humans too.

We all are humans, we all read the boards, we all are the community. Staff and players the same. These forums are about communicating, and the use of an off-topic can improve the atmosphere - like in the "good" topics - and the misuse of it can ruin the atmosphere.
Lately, it did a big part in ruining it. Which is what has to be changed, but not by a too strict moderation.

There is one point about criticism : If you really want the subjects of your criticism to read it and think about it, it must be done in a polite way, or it only becomes provocation. And honestly, you really don't get people to think when heating up their minds too much.

[Cliu Beothach]

But english is such a language that "insultive" tone can be more concise and precise in the correct situation. If these boards truly were about communication it wouldn't prohibit the use of "flaming". So much implications and tone effect so many things, and these can be good or bad.

I understand the use of such language, and understand passion. I understand if people get angry and I understand HOW to interpret it. We are ALL humans as you said, and therefore naturally inclined to certain patterns of speech and understanding such ways.

Sometimes forced politeness take so much away from communication. It offends me.

Edit: Reading the rules, I feel insulted too. I feel offended to be treated as such a juvenile that I cannot handle other's opinions, ideals, and passions. I don't want to have the anger slowly grow because the pressures are still there but the valve isn't.

[The Returner]

My Oppinion:

Lifting the dots, the best descision in this matter. It was clearly a problem, and lead to a whole lot more avoidable problems. I have already apologized numerous times for whats happened, my post last night being deleted within an hour of posting.

I know many of you, staff members and players do not agree (And unjustly have bias towards me because you cannot accept my own oppinions) with how I think, however last night has proven that the social engineering failure of overmoderation on the off-topic forum, and the dot/public humiliation system was beneficial to opening a new dialogue between the players and the staff, even though the way it happened was violent, bitter, and very negative up to this point.

The post I made last night, several paragraphs of observations I wanted answers to, of this two staff members actually replied, those two staff members are the kind of people who should be running this game, because those two staff members, regardless of how they felt about my oppinions and views of the subject answered without taking some kind of negative action towards me in a manner similar to kindergarten.

I do not think the off-topic forum needs to be deleted, nor do I think its junk. I have made posts on it that might not agree with you, thats fine, but I want the staff to know that just because I swear (which I do as a personality trait, its something that *happens* and the precious wordfilter has maybe a total of three cusswords in it to begin with, so adjusting that first and then moderation would probably help more) I am not bringing down this community as a whole which is exactly how I have been treated, as the off-topic scapegoat experiment to show other people what not to do.

This is what started the problem, and I'm sorry it has. There are some decent (New) staff members, they are the quiet ones, the ones who do not react on things like bias and the ones who have been trying to hold this community together, and those are more of the people we need around here and less of the kind of people who are gun happy, because once the dot system was implemented it was a matter of time before something happened on offtopic to make a moderator overzealous and this was going to happen eventually anyway.


Sorry for the long post.

[Damien]

Swearing, even if done with the understanding as "self expression", always causes anger. At least it leads other players to take the swearing for serious, who then REALLY start to swear. Especially if you're insulting others with it, others will jump in or defend the insulted with an even harsher tone.

Flaming is no "communication", it is letting the own anger out at any just "visible" target, and it causes frustration and anger in others, resulting in more flaming and also "flamewars".

We have to keep both out of the forums. Else, the staff will stop working one by one, and the game will get closed somewhen. I've seen this(or likewise) with other staffs before.
One good example : Some of you may still remember the good old "Era Online", right ?
In the end, the staff flamed each other, broke apart, and the game was shut down and the server/client code was sold to some company.
Era Online 2 was a follower Project run by some part of the staff members who reformed, but it never really worked and the project was dropped quickly.

When posting, we must always keep in mind the following things :
Staff members are players too. Players and staff members are humans.
Always keep up a certain niveau to your posts. If we stay honest, polite and don't provoke, everything will be fine.
It is now kinda down to the following : If the tone on the Off Topic gets bad again, it is kinda very likely to be removed. So please watch your tone there too, and calm down before posting if you're angry, everyone.

[Aegohl]

So what if its filled with spam and nonsense? No one is going to make you read it... just ignore it if you don't want to read spam and nonsense.

The only thing that really needs to be removed there is highly offensive, derogatory, or insulting remarks.

DING DING DING DING DING DING!!! Someone did her homework.

Martin was the sole moderator of Off-topic for god knows how long and only culled the most offensive garbage that ended up there, and you know what? Off-topic was better then.

The boards got nasty here in General before they got nasty in Off-topic. That was because of the over-moderation of General. Eventually they pushed all that anger off into off-topic because you at least had half a chance of your post surviving in off-topic--that is if you wished upon a star twice in the last week and sacrificed a virgin.

So we react by making a moderation super team to quash the rebel alliance and watch as the bs starts to fizzle up over the side of the bin.

Everyone got scared then, so it's time for green yellow and red cookies that we can tattoo to the face of people's accounts and watch them go "buh-bye."

At the end of the day, it's optional to read it. If you enjoy the material there, read it. If not, ignore it. If you're easily offended, don't go there. If someone personally attacks you, that's when the moderation needs to happen, but even at it's worst I haven't seen too many real personal attacks. Of course, that might be because I can only see the topics that don't get deleted, edited, or locked before anyone can comment.

[Damien]

We should implement cookies instead of dots.
And since the most people do read the off topic, and you cannot stop staff members from reading it too, "simply don't read there" does not work.

[Tinuva Geogroda]

We should implement cookies instead of dots.
And since the most people do read the off topic, and you cannot stop staff members from reading it too, "simply don't read there" does not work.

My idea

Cookies are the solution for everything. Thats why I/everyone loves them.

[Cliu Beothach]

Anger doesn't brew from profanity. Trying to pretty up people's feelings doesn't shove them away. It could also frustrate and just make it worse.

[The Returner]

Damien, your overly paranoid. Swearing doesen't make moderators quit, moderators quit from things like lack of interest, too many insults, or lack of time, not someone swearing. If you can name one moderator whose ever quit illarion because of swearing, you get a cookie.

[Damien]

Paranoid ? No. i just read the reason for quitting on internal boards, and frustration about complaints and flames as well as a general bad tone was the main reason for a very good scripter having gone, which resulted in the dropping of priest magic development for over a year (which will be done by other scripters soon), as well as other stuff. He also said that working for something that frustrates you more than bringing fun, isn't a good idea.

Swearing doesn't drive people away. It just decreases the tone and the niveau in general, even if indirectly. You must see it from its effects, not from its intention :

If you swear, and mean it in a funny way, you and some others do have enough maturity to know that it's meant in a funny or ironic way. Even if it sounds somewhat rough.
However, there are whole groups of people who don't get the irony or the funnyness in it :
1. generally, most people who are less mature
2. people who understand english not too well, mainly from natively speaking other languagues
3. people who easily feel offended
4. people who just don't like the tone

While many of the first group will love your swearing, they will imitate it to sound cool, and will overdo it and make it worse and worse and worse, pushing each other to a whole new art form of cussing which will spread into other boards or just ruin the OT board for everyone not liking the tone.
The ones not understanding irony or funnyness will think of you as immature and may feel offended and get angry or frustrated, or even start a flame against you.
The easily offended ones will take it very personally and most likely insult you and start flaming.
We once had murder threats against a main staff member (Bror back then), for banning someone from the game. We don't need stuff like that to happen again either.

That's the overall reasons why bad languague and swearing shouldn't be done on the forums, and why it is forbidden (Note that it was always also forbidden on all illarion boards including the OT since the server rules have been written).
Everyone in this community has a certain responsibility, and if we want to keep the OT board, we have to at least stay polite, even if that means that we have to behave a bit.

[The Returner]

Paranoid, yes.

Those other two groups of people should be the focus of discussion as they are the only ones with the possibility of taking things to a level of flaming and insulting and general rulebreaking. I'm not saying swearing can do no wrong, but your basing it that swearing is whats creating the problem when its simply overeaction, which I can agree needs to be moderated and stopped but making other people change their personalities is not a way to do it.

[Damien]

Paranoid, yes ?Well, a small paranoia sometimes keeps you from having bad surprises. But it's less about being paranoid and more about murphy's law here.

Swearing isn't creating the problem. It adds to it.
Some people can swear without insulting someone, other's don't see the thin line in between. And you cannot allow some to swear and others not.
Swearing is okay if it's done just a little bit and with not so harsh words. Noone has anything against a good old "Oh dammn !" or stuff like that. Worse words though attract even worse habits, therefor they're not allowed.

It's also a question of style too. And taste.
The F-word is not a nice word indeed, and it does lack some style. Like said in South Park : Instead, use the word "mmkay"
...and the Bloodhound gang shows us pretty well how it can be done even better : Foxtrot, Uniform, Charlie, Kilo.