Double Standards(Continued, with arguments against the lock)

[Misjbar]

Japheth wrote:
Damien has issued unwarranted, abusive private messages to me and one other former GM. Granted, it was an apparent "mistake" with me, but I still felt abused after it. My question:

Is it the case that private messages do not warrant being issued with "dots," or is Damien immune from receiving them because he's a staff member? Should staff members be immune from disciplinary measures? This isn't meant to provoke flaming, but merely a casual exercise in examining the staff's new method of "punishing" players.

Perhaps a reward system for posters would also be nice? Perhaps posters who provide well structured and well thought out opinions, or topics are provided with other badges of honour.

Remember, you'll get more with a carrot than with a stick.

Thoughts, opinions?


If you dislike write to GM-Abuse

Topic closed.

The other quest was closed with a single comment, yet it wasn't about GM-Abuse dear Arien. It was about the new system, and he asked for clarification. He could have used anyone as an example, and he did, because did he not also mention Ku and Returner?

He is merely asking questions about the new system, which you could have noticed if you'd have actually read his post. Such as: How strict is your system? Are PMs considered for dots too, since they are part of the boards too?
Perhaps next time you could wait with locking by first asking if this couldn't have been send to GM-Abuse, or if it was really necessary and waiting for an answer. I myself think it could have been a nice discussion about this new system, since every system needs discussion if it is as unclear as yours (and beside that, the system is entirely subjective).

[Nitram]

How strict is your system?

Strict. What do you want to hear?!

Are PMs considered for dots too, since they are part of the boards too?

PM means Private Message.
That means that noone but the the one who send it and the one wo received it, know what is written in.
How should we consider those pms for dots too?
Impossible.

and beside that, the system is entirely subjective.

Yes.

[Misjbar]

I want you to respond to what Japheth wrote. The questions where just tiny examples of what Japheth wrote, and without elaborate argumentation that he gave.

[Nitram]

Damien has issued unwarranted, abusive private messages to me and one other former GM. Granted, it was an apparent "mistake" with me, but I still felt abused after it.

If someone does something like this you can do the following things.

1. Ignore.
2. Report him ( GM Report or Player Report both is written at the contact page )

Is it the case that private messages do not warrant being issued with "dots"

Private Messages are not effected by any dots.

or is Damien immune from receiving them because he's a staff member?

He is not.

Should staff members be immune from disciplinary measures?

They are not. But i doubt that any staff member will get such a point ever. Since actions that would require such a dot are solved within the internal boards of the forum.

Perhaps a reward system for posters would also be nice?

Use and Effect. We hope that the flaming and bitching within the board lowers a little if the hand out some of the dots in case it becomes to much. They are reminders of what the poster did wrong.

I don't see the great use of a reward system. And it would take a lot of time to put in something like this. A lot of time at every update of the board we perform.


Nitram

[Cliu Beothach]

PM means Private Message.
That means that noone but the the one who send it and the one wo received it, know what is written in.
How should we consider those pms for dots too?
Impossible.

So I can break the rules through PMs?

[Nitram]

We can't check them. But in case someone sends us a pm and is written in a bad manner, we will think about possible punishments.

[Japheth]

Well that makes everything clear. Crystal clear, in fact.

[Misjbar]

Thank you Nitram. See how everything becomes a better place without locking the thread without any real answers given?

[Lahela]

I only have to say that i do not like the idea of punishments. Makes me feel unwelcome...

And I wonder why PO Stepfen Rothman's board account already has a red dot. The staff must really hate him even if he isn't around.

[Jupiter]

I only have to say that i do not like the idea of punishments. Makes me feel unwelcome...

And I wonder why PO Stepfen Rothman's board account already has a red dot. The staff must really hate him even if he isn't around.

I am not sure.

But he is banned a guess. So this dot means just he is banned, that happend automaticly....i guess

[Mr. Cromwell]

Well, I think that a punshiment with clear warning system is lightyears ahead of whatever system we had previously. Makes it feel less erratic, favoristic and much more clear.

So now you are granted X amount of warnings before ban, and you KNOW how many warnings you get before you are banned.

[Nitram]

I only have to say that i do not like the idea of punishments. Makes me feel unwelcome...

You are welcome as long as you behave. Thats the reason for that system.
In case you have to post offending things, you won't stay here long.

And I wonder why PO Stepfen Rothman's board account already has a red dot. The staff must really hate him even if he isn't around.

That has nothing to do with Stephen. The warning system, exspecialy the red dot is generated with the ban list of the forum. Stephens account is on that list a quite long time allready. So the warning system detects him as banned shows that red point.

If you search for the accounts that got banned, you will find that all have a red dot.

Nitram

[Talaena Landessi]

the shens have red dots too

[Lahela]

The thought of being spied on and punished really makes me feel like quitting the boards already even though I'm not someone who is really offending or someone who misbehaves.

[Keikan Hiru]

You are "spied" all the time you play.
Since you are using a private server you shouldn't be that suprised about this fact.

[AlexRose]

You are "spied" all the time you play.
Since you are using a private server you shouldn't be that suprised about this fact.

Keikan is watching you cyber.

Well yes, I'd expect to be spied on so the rules can be sustained.

[Tinuva Geogroda]

You are "spied" all the time you play.
Since you are using a private server you shouldn't be that suprised about this fact.

Everything your char does the gm's see. And be sure that by exciting things a GM is near to watch you. =/ its like a television for them -.-"

'Set him on the pron channel pls' xD

nah you're spied, but I can live with that: 'Coming too on my party which GM evah maybe near?'

[Cassandra Fjurin]

The thought of being spied on and punished really makes me feel like quitting the boards already even though I'm not someone who is really offending or someone who misbehaves.

what should we do? Only watching during the posts getting more and more offensive. Players get insulted, gm's get insulted more and more on the OT Board and other boards. Noone respected others. That isn't more friendly.

[Tinuva Geogroda]

The thought of being spied on and punished really makes me feel like quitting the boards already even though I'm not someone who is really offending or someone who misbehaves.

what should we do? Only watching during the posts getting more and more offensive. Players get insulted, gm's get insulted more and more on the OT Board and other boards. Noone respected others. That isn't more friendly.

I agree with that, disrespect grows greater

but I do respect, <3 for everyone who respects me

[Ku 'Agor]

what should we do? Only watching during the posts getting more and more offensive. Players get insulted, gm's get insulted more and more on the OT Board and other boards. Noone respected others. That isn't more friendly.

Narcissistic ninny!!

Cow Pines upon you!!!11!!1!!!1!1111!11

Nitram

He can't drop his bad behavior. And here goes the red dot.

Nitram

[Damien]

The whole thing Japeth brought up was my mistake. It happened like the following :

1. Aegohl posted in a topic scolding me around, for something he himself didnt even witness. He and me have different opinions about some stuff, but usually that does not get me upset.
2. I was really pissed anyhow since i was already angry at someone and i had a car accident that day (noone got hurt), so i wrote Aegohl a PM instead of ignoring the rant. Since i was quite stressed and still a bit shocked from the crash, i mistook Aegohl for Jappy (but hit the "reply" button so the msg got to the right person) and scolded him back.
3. He answered in a very provocative way, even involving my girlfriend, which then - due to my quite stressed mood - resulted in me being really pissed. So i chose to ignore his writing.
4. I overthought that and wrote a short answer (ending with : "have a nice life" (the PM Japeth posted somewhere else) ) and - because of the mistaking - i wrote to Jappy, not to Aegohl.
5. I excused to Jappy. On the boards, and with a PM.

The new system will be very helpful to reduce agressive/insultive posts, which can lead to the above when you are already angry and for example had a bad day.

[Michael Isman]

Sorry, but I love how nitters capitals the abbreviations of the yellow dots:
Second Yellow Dot for you
YD mo' effa.

[Damien]

So we basically have :
FYD, SYD and LYD/RD.
Gosh, i dislike shortcuts

[Michael Isman]

The capitalization 'Yellow Dot', only shows how serious Nitram is about those spots thingies.

Beware spammers, flamers, haters.

[Aegohl]

I'm, frankly, saying the following to wind things down, because Damien still is spamming my PM box with his crap and I'm getting tired of it.

I've never reported Damien to GM abuse, because that's not what I'm looking for. I don't want him removed from the staff, really. I want him to see what he does wrong and fix those things, but that's far beyond him.

What began all this was my simply stating that Damien should try another method for his quests. Three current staff members have all said to me that they agree his quests are more hassling than entertaining and that they actually log out when he starts them. They have to work with him, so, of course, they say such things in private with me and others. The staff members who have left the staff have made their points as well..

Some of us, including myself, have offered advice. He even knows it's true, because he's said to me before that he doesn't understand why he gets so many complaints and sometimes even reports to GM abuse. I *did* in the past, try to communicate to him about this in the most friendly way possible, but he's thick-headed and foolish.

Some staff members have even questioned if he's all there, and others just think he's foolish. I just think he's unreasonable and stubborn really. That's why he can't stop writing every time I reply to one of his PM's. However, I want this to be done with, the PM's and everything.

Damien, promise me that you'll, at the very least, think before you do things just a little bit more and I'll promise to wait until I'm steamed out before I write what I think.

[Gro'bul]

(and beside that, the system is entirely subjective).

Couldn't you say that in reference to just about anything in life which contains an opinion of a person? Your asserting that theres a double standard to some people versus others, your absolutely right. People who have put effort and time and work into the game and others who have cohered to the rules over time are shown clear favoritism over those who completely disregard common courtesy on a internet forum, and why should it be any other way? Persons who have been warned numerous times for going outside the bounds getting disciminated against and punished, surely this is absurd, or is it?
I say to this that, it is entrusted to the moderators to moderate the forums and make the judgement calls, and thats the way it is. You can question why all day long, it doesn't remove what is the fact of the matter.

And Karl, your spamming fyi.

[Aegohl]

Oh. And I wanted to mention something before this topic inevitabley either settles down (who are we kidding?) or becomes locked. I didn't want to send a PM because I felt it might feel invasive at this point, and maybe even start a private conversation that I don't want to get into.

Narmir,

I'm sure you hate me by virtue of the company you keep, but I'd still like to apologize if you think that I insulted you in the private correspondence between myself and Damien.

The only reason you were brought up was because Damien mentioned in his first message to me that you were thinking of quitting ESQS over criticism about the quest. I mentioned that I was aware that you were his girlfriend because I felt that what he wrote to me was unfair and a result of him simply being overprotective of someone he cares about. Even in my last correspondence to him I mentioned that I felt this had more to do with his girlfriend and the car accident than anything I had said, and he still treated it as though I was bringing you up to bait him. Oh well. Him and I are yin and yang and will never get along, it really shouldn't involve you.

I don't know you well, but you seem like a nice girl. From what I've heard you're one of four legs holding up the ESQS, which is like a child of mine, and I respect that and thank you. I've always been afraid that the ESQS was only going to fold, and I left it in it's infancy and I'm afraid I don't have the access or the power to fix it if it does fall flat. Thank you for holding down the fort in my absense from it.

-Mitch

[Damien]

Please stop being insultive. You also don't need to mistake grownup people for children.
Bringing up the more than well-done theme of calling a quest "problematic" which 14 players voted as "excellent" and only two as "bad" also isn't necessary.
"it really shouldn't involve you" - well, then please don't try to use someone as an insult next time, if it shouldn't involve him /her. That's bad style anyhow. ( Also my words were not "criticism" but "ranting", which is a difference.) Besides, PMs are also logged somewhere.
We're not yin and yang, these two anyhow must get along well if things are in order.
We can get along well if you stop pecking around on and provoking me (or spreading that nonsense up there).
Thank you very much.

[Keikan Hiru]

[...] calling a quest "problematic" which 14 players voted as "excellent" and only two as "bad" also isn't necessary.

Since we are talking about this "well done" topic again

It was more:
17 votes for 'very good'
6 votes for 'good'
8 votes for 'bad / didn't matter them'
5 votes for 'very bad / overdone / enerving'

Does not look like the landslide victory you consider it.

[Aegohl]

Exactly. And keep in mind how easy it is to get people to say what you want them to when you're in a position of authority.

He's still spamming my inbox after I threatened to report him to GM abuse for it. God! He's pathetic.