~ Building Rules / Bauregeln ~

Everything about Illarion that fits nowhere else. / Alles über Illarion was inhaltlich in kein anderes Board passt.

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Drathe
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Post by Drathe »

'Currently its the same with many guilds. They found to build up something cool and as soon they are done they get inactive.' Maybe because it takes so damn long to get there? It becomes the focus of all and everything then when its done... ok great its done... what now I've been playing so much to get it all I think I'll take a break?

Some fair points made by others, its not like all characters need a house or a building. But some do and have the money for it, what else is there to spend gold coins on? Also the boroughs are empty... will it take another 10 real life years to get maybe 10 buildings in some of them for there to be a reason to have a Duke or Dutches to run them? What do they tax to get their wealth, the trees and herbs?

I don't want to see the map covered in pointless buildings, but a few more cant hurt. If a player has worked at getting the coin, spends it on a house and becomes inactive then is that not their choise? The rules say that 2 months of inactivity and the house it taken back by the town... and sold on for more coins to someone else or even demolished. So whats the problem with relaxing it a little?
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Vern Kron
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Post by Vern Kron »

Olaf Tingvatn wrote:what would it cost to build a small tent like house with a flap thingy for a door for my Lizard? since my lizard Snushi is a citizen of Trollsbane it would be ofcoursedly be built in Trollsbane...near water of course...or does that coding thingy even excist? for a small tent thingy that can just hold on person/lizard? with maybe a sleeping place on the ground and with a fireplace?as in those that is in and around trollsbane..?if you know what i mean?:P
Yes, this could be done, but this is what would happen:
1. It would look like a small house.
2. It would have to be approved by the goverment, and you have to have played the char for so long before it would be built.
3. It wouldn't be able to be moved.
Keikan Hiru
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Post by Keikan Hiru »

Drathe wrote:Also the boroughs are empty...
Just because some player characters gave another player character gold coins to claim a title and the (disputed) right over a couple of meadows doesn't mean that Lennier becomes thier mapper slave.

Bad example.
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Saril
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Post by Saril »

@Olaf Tingvatn: I send you a proposal with costs.

The house cost 73 Silver. When he will the house, then can he have the silver in 2 rl month.

The farmer leech rules are in addition there with it just not every guild them sometimes there appears a house agrees. A guild it enough time not even has around on a building zuzuarbeiten, will hardly also remain long in the play.

~~~~

Das Haus kostet 73 Silber und wenn er es wirklich will dann kann er das Silber in gut 2 rl Monaten zusammenhaben.

Die Bauregelregeln sind dazu da damit eben nicht jede Gilde die mal auftaucht ein Haus bekommt. EIne Gilde die es nicht einmal genug Zeit hat um auf ein Gebäude zuzuarbeiten, wird auch kaum lange im Spiel bleiben.
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Dantagon Marescot
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Post by Dantagon Marescot »

Wanted:
More than one present mapper who will respond quickly to Illarionites wanting to build or improve a building.

When this happens then you can complain about the lack of buildings or improvement to buildings. Personally I have been waiting since November on castle improvements with various hold ups I was not informed about until I questioned why it was taking so long for a supply list. Very few people have the program for mapping and even fewer can update it.

Is it really the guild or players fault for going inactive when they plan something only to have it not happen? It is rather hard to push for activity when no one will push with you.

Lennier deserves to have a life away from Illa as we all do, (gods know mine has kept me away as well). But could you please find underlings to keep things moving. Things becoming stagnant is bad, that is when you start to loose people.
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Saril
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Post by Saril »

We have 5 editor assistants (mapper) + 1 mapper master (Lennier).

When you will a bild or a update go to a editor assistant or Lenner. When Lennier have no time, we have 5 people (ich weiß Frauen sind auch dabei ^^) that can help. And 1 can perfekt english. ;)
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Dantagon Marescot
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Post by Dantagon Marescot »

There are assistants? O.O Well that is news to me. I always understood it that only Lennier had access to the maps. That certianly changes things.
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Azuros
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Post by Azuros »

From what I understand though, those assistant mappers can't actually update the map on the game. They only submit their maps to Lennier.
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Nitram
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Post by Nitram »

Thats correct, they can summit their maps, but they can't perform a real map update. The high difficulty of the update process of the maps is the reason for this. Its not even close to be as easy as for example updating the scripts.
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Estralis Seborian
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Post by Estralis Seborian »

The problem is, we have five nice, cozy towns. Only two are populated properly and one is totally deserted. Sure, cheaper buildings would result in more variety on the map, but as we all had to learn, buildings of small groups are deserted in usually one year or less.

What I - personally - would like to see is more concentration on common goals of big groups. It seems to me like players regard the towns as part of the engine and if they want to achieve something, they have to leave these towns behind. Don't you think that a huge guild house inside the capital of the island is more interesting for our characters than a small hut in the wilderness?

I am also totally in favour of dormatories. Build some! Think about methods to encourage e.g. renting rooms there and think about a "renting system"! Illarion is one of the few games where individual players can determine the shape and look of the game as a whole - do not hesitate to forge Illarion into the form you'd like to see!
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Kaila Galathil Travinus
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Post by Kaila Galathil Travinus »

Estralis Seborian wrote:The problem is, we have five nice, cozy towns. Only two are populated properly and one is totally deserted. Sure, cheaper buildings would result in more variety on the map, but as we all had to learn, buildings of small groups are deserted in usually one year or less.

What I - personally - would like to see is more concentration on common goals of big groups. It seems to me like players regard the towns as part of the engine and if they want to achieve something, they have to leave these towns behind. Don't you think that a huge guild house inside the capital of the island is more interesting for our characters than a small hut in the wilderness?

I am also totally in favour of dormatories. Build some! Think about methods to encourage e.g. renting rooms there and think about a "renting system"! Illarion is one of the few games where individual players can determine the shape and look of the game as a whole - do not hesitate to forge Illarion into the form you'd like to see!
One idea for an "Inn" very near TB in order to rent rooms was not approved due to TB already having an Inn from what I gather, yet I like your idea :) ...possibly the "rent" concept needs to be in another town?
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Saril
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Post by Saril »

Zusammenfassung für die nicht Englischsprecher:

Es gibt neben Lennier 5 Assistanten. Diese 5 arbeiten Lennier zu. Sie erstellen Questkarten, Doungens und Gebäude. Diese werden dann von Lennier abgesegnet und er läd sie hoch. Er ist der einzige Mapper der das kann.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ja Estralis hat vollkommen recht. Die meisten Gilden verlassen die Städte um etwas zu bauen. Nur wenige bauen in den Städten, und sowas würde Vielfallt bringen.
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Lennier
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Post by Lennier »

Ahoi players,

Only to inform you here and now: After ~2 months of abstinence i am back and will continue with my work.

For the next days i beg you not to harm me with new building orders. At first i need to get a new overview about the current situation.

Beside of that i am in rework of a complete new set of "building rules", which get announced here and on the webpage in few days. When this is done i will overtake new orders.

PO Lennier
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Joxia Doral
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Post by Joxia Doral »

Kaila Galathil Travinus wrote:
Estralis Seborian wrote:The problem is, we have five nice, cozy towns. Only two are populated properly and one is totally deserted. Sure, cheaper buildings would result in more variety on the map, but as we all had to learn, buildings of small groups are deserted in usually one year or less.

What I - personally - would like to see is more concentration on common goals of big groups. It seems to me like players regard the towns as part of the engine and if they want to achieve something, they have to leave these towns behind. Don't you think that a huge guild house inside the capital of the island is more interesting for our characters than a small hut in the wilderness?

I am also totally in favour of dormatories. Build some! Think about methods to encourage e.g. renting rooms there and think about a "renting system"! Illarion is one of the few games where individual players can determine the shape and look of the game as a whole - do not hesitate to forge Illarion into the form you'd like to see!
One idea for an "Inn" very near TB in order to rent rooms was not approved due to TB already having an Inn from what I gather, yet I like your idea :) ...possibly the "rent" concept needs to be in another town?
Actually due to high request for living quarters I would like to see a rooming house type of thing open up in Bane. The tavern only has ...3? rooms for rent? I would like to see several more or a large multi housing unit built and have been considering these plans for some time. Even my work in Riverside has a nice dormatory planned as well several nice private quarters for the higher ranking memers of my borrough should they choose to live there.
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Pellandria
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Post by Pellandria »

Do we get the new list soon or can we place an order already and just calculate the price later?
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Lennier
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Post by Lennier »

Maybe you ready noticed, the building rules are on the webpage now.

english link: http://illarion.org/illarion/build_rule ... _rules.php?
german link: http://illarion.org/illarion/build_rule ... _rules.php?

I beg you to check the texts for spelling mistakes and to quote them here, so that i can change them. General questions and discussions also can be placed here.

Summary of the new rules:

Buildings are privilege of groups now, not of individual charakters. But of course the current ownerships will stay, as long as a basic activity of the players can be proofed.
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abcfantasy
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Post by abcfantasy »

*[To the priceliste] should be [To the price list]

*Also, on the building rules page, the links to the building master are to the german page.

*Price list at the very bottom:
For every depot more the price will be 50 silvercoins above of the price of the earlier bhought depot (50, 100, 150, 200 etc.).
Should be "earlier bought depot"
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Lennier
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Post by Lennier »

Thank you for your help. But in try to change the mistakes i chrashed the building rule webpage now :cry:
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Achae Eanstray
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Post by Achae Eanstray »

Furthermore the leader and the majority of the members should not be member of any other group too.
This effectively eliminates all mages from being able to build or be a part of anything else since all are part of a group as it is. It also elimates activity in other groups such as some druids, knighthood if they desire to also be part of a family, guards of trolls bane, along with anyone joining these guilds http://illarion.org/community/forums/viewforum.php?f=5. I can see why you wouldn't want members joining tons of guilds and also building family homes yet this rule seems very strict. I would like to propose to at least allow joining of one other group.
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Jupiter
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Post by Jupiter »

I am not sure, but I guess towns to do count as a normal guild - they are towns, not guilds.

Otherwise I see no problem with the rule...
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Nitram
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Post by Nitram »

Lennier wrote:Thank you for your help. But in try to change the mistakes i chrashed the building rule webpage now :cry:
I made the page a little smarter so it fixes some of the problems you could create. Not all... but some.
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Saril
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Post by Saril »

Jupiter im Grunde ist es immer noch wie es war. Eine Person konnte sein Haus immer nur auf Stadtgebiet bauen. Das Man nun die Stadt dazu bringen muß Wohnraum zu bauen ist ja nichts anderes als Hinzugehen und zu sagen: Ich will in der Stadt wohnen und brauche einen Schlafplatz. Das Haus dafür würde ich dann bezahlen.

Der einzige Unterschied ist nun, dass es keine Häuser in Besitz einzelner Chars mehr geben wird.

Meine Frage ist da: Was ist mit denen die Grundrecht an einem haus haben? Werden sie enteignet oder bleiben die Verträge bestehen (Marke Altverträge)?

Betroffene Chars und Häuser gibt es in allen Städten.
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Djironnyma
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Post by Djironnyma »

Lennier wrote: Buildings are privilege of groups now, not of individual charakters. But of course the current ownerships will stay, as long as a basic activity of the players can be proofed.
= Bauen ist nun ein Privileg von Gruppen, nicht von individuellen Charakteren. Aber selbstverständlich bleiben aktuelle Eigentumsverähltnisse besteheh, so fern eine grundlegende Aktivität der Spieler bewiesen werden kann.
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rakust dorenstkzul
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Post by rakust dorenstkzul »

Lennier wrote:Buildings are privilege of groups now, not of individual charakters. But of course the current ownerships will stay, as long as a basic activity of the players can be proofed.
How many folks make a group? is it linked to guild rules in that sense?
Lennier wrote:Single players are not allowed to build or to buy an own building. But it is their right to raise their influence as citizens of towns and members of groups to can rent a room.
What about individuals that already own homes/buildings/caves? Are they going to be turfed out? or will they be forced to sell, or what?
Lennier wrote:Aesthetic and content mistakes within the plans will be rejected by the building master.
Elaborate, plox.
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Lennier
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Post by Lennier »

How many folks make a group? is it linked to guild rules in that sense?
yes
What about individuals that already own homes/buildings/caves? Are they going to be turfed out? or will they be forced to sell, or what?
Of course the current ownerships will stay, as long as a basic activity of the players can be proofed.
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Saril
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Post by Saril »

§1 Absatz 4:
Einzelpersonen haben nicht mehr die Möglichkeit eigene Gebäude zu bauen oder zu erwerben. Es obliegt aber ihnen, Einfluss auf Städte und Gruppen zu nehmen und sich in deren Gebäuden Räume anzumieten.
Das spricht doch für sich. Einzelpersonen können also Bauen indem sie eine Stadt dazu bringen einen Auftrag für einen Bau loszutrten. Das würde ich dann IG so versuchen indem ich der Stadt halt anbiete den Bau zu bezahlen. Was wohl auch am logischten ist, wenn man keine Miete Zahlen will.
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Athian
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Post by Athian »

Single players are not allowed to build or to buy an own building. But it is their right to raise their influence as citizens of towns and members of groups to can rent a room.
Well I'm happy that we'll at least be able to keep buildings we have already made. And this new rule should help with the problem of people who listen and spread stupid rumors that are repeatedly refuted with evidence to the contrary. Next time I'll get a warning.

Mostly my concern isn't the rules but the Governing of townships themselves. You can say the buildings are property of the towns, but that basically means that they are property of the leaders of the towns. Many of the townships have unstable governments to begin with. Ruled by people with personal agenda's, friends and enemies. What (RP wise if this rules holds true) stops these bias groups and sometimes singular leaders from simply reclaiming a building from it's users?

With the IG Governments being as they are, which is frankly terrible no matter where you go players using houses would have no security from one day to the next. We can all hope such things wouldn't happen but there is a possibility. Shall none disagree with the local government for fear of being kicked out of there home on a whim? Even worse what if you have a complete change in government with new leaders and new ideas. Should no person have any right to the building they are using?

Certainly we could bring the matter up with GMs but then it wouldn't really be a breach of any RP rules for a leader to throw someone out for disagreeing with them. It wouldn't be fun, or nice but really it would be within the limits without breaking any IG rules. I can't say i trust players leaders enough to give them that sort of power. If we're to use this ruling i would personally rather have GM governed Cities.

Just my thoughts

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Keikan Hiru
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Post by Keikan Hiru »

Maybe this would give characters finally the drive to dispose said unfitting leaders, no?
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Athian
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Post by Athian »

Keikan Hiru wrote:Maybe this would give characters finally the drive to dispose said unfitting leaders, no?
That entirely depends on the level of activity in the town. All it takes is a majority of people not to care(major problem as to why single individuals have so much power) or not having enough friends in your particular township to back you. But if your saying Hostilely killing off people that threaten your living space even without the vote of the majority is fine, then I'm sure they'll be even more instability along the way.

And just because a leader is a pain in the you know what doesn't make them entirely unfit, it becomes more of a game of popularity with your characters home or residence at stake. I'd rather not thanks.
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Mr. Cromwell
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Post by Mr. Cromwell »

I think that those buildings which exist IG, should be free game for purchase, donation or trade just as all other property. This point clearly needs clarification.

So all those buildings, which have already/will be built, can be traded/sold/given away IG. Managing rents for several buildings will be an incredible administrative pain in the ass for the players for play town leaders, and so it sometimes makes much more sense to actually 'sell' a house.

Not to mention that if your rent-relationship depends entirely on how much the administration likes you.. meh. Not a good idea, seriously guys.
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