Orcs bloody well go flowery.

Ereaes · Post by **Ereaes** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:13 pm

Hello one and all. Has any one else noticed the fact that now the orcs have strayed deffinately from there usual brutal path? I mean seriously, moonsilvers discription of them is much different then the way they are acting. ANd i know what you say "Its just a general stero typical thing, and each orc is an individual." I reply "give me a bloody break." read anything, anything that concerns orcs and you will get a description similar to this "A brutal, and merceless race, known for thier extreem temper and thier over all demouer that is evil and cruel." and yet here we have a orc knight, and orc flower thrower and all these other orcs who did nothing but prance around like rabits, please tell me I am not the only person who has seen this? Unless every body likes these happy go lucky orcs, i mean come on!!! They are bloody orcs! The same goes for the drow, i mean i remember one of my chars killed a "supposed" drow and everyone when into an uproar. I mean seriously, you now why most genrallistions exist? ITS BECAUSE MOST ARE TRUE!!!!!!!!

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:15 pm

Orcs can have honor. Gabon was originally going to fight alongside Kaja. However Stephen befriended Gabon and they talked about fighting, but with honor. When Kaja was slain by Cyrus, Gabon decided to fight with Stephen.
Stephen accepts Gabon because he recognizes honor is something every race has, and he believes orcs may have more honor then most humans...
*cough* revlen *cough*

Ereaes · Post by **Ereaes** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:18 pm

har Har har, that still does not chance the fact, orcs are known for their hostility and there over all evil demour, and i used Gorbon as an example, only one example, please dont tell me none of you see what im trying to say here.

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:19 pm

*flames Ereaes*

..Kidding..

I really don't see the problem with there being a lot of peaceful orcs. The reasons behind all these peaceful orcs coming into being often has to do with what roleplay goes on. A vast majority of the characters I've seen in the past have fought for peace, justice, whatever else that's goodly. The reason we have so many peaceful orcs, I feel, is because the players behind them are realizing this turn of events and are allowing their orc characters to be affected by their surroundings, something that is an inevitability in real life. Anyone, no matter how extreme, no matter how brutal, peaceful, sad, happy, erratic, simple-minded, intelligent, etc. is invariably influenced in one way or another by his or her surroundings. Its part of the natural order of life. Good for them for not sticking relentlessly to the stereotype of bloodthirsty, vile orcs who just want to maim and kill.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:22 pm

Not all orcs worship Moshran. Some worship Malachin. Malachin is an honourable god. I know the GMs are busily updating stories, information on races and the such. Perhaps not all orcish tribes are the bloodthirsty murderers you think they should be.

EDIT: Crocodiles are not sentient creatures able to make moral decisions. Orcs, while generally stupid, are.

Ereaes · Post by **Ereaes** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:23 pm

I see your point cain, and understand what you are saying. And yet if you read up on all dicriptions of orcs, most despise humans, i mean absolutely despise humans. I mean its like you take a crockodile and make it loose its tail and stand on two legs, nature wont allow it to happen. By nature orcs are vile and cruel creatures, but the players behined them are not, thus most dont play them such, i would love to see a good rper play an orc, i mean truely play an orc as they should be played. I would actually pay money to see that. I mean im not saying all orcs on the game are happy go lucky, but most seem to be.

I mean some may be honerable. But most say "well every orc is an individual" but guess what if you were to take a concensus of teh orcs playing illa, most would be happy go lucky.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:25 pm

We did have Cyrus and Grutar and Grebar a week ago ...

Ereaes · Post by **Ereaes** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:26 pm

Grutar turned happy go lucky. And cyrus killed himself.

Garett Gwenour · Post by **Garett Gwenour** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:28 pm

Well Cyrus was beaten and he had just slain the priest of Moshran, Kaja Wolfagen...
What I think you is some serious conflict ingame. And rest assured if you continue to bother the Knights of Kallahorn like Revlen is.. He'll most definetly land himself in some serious conflict...

Cain Freemont · Post by **Cain Freemont** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:31 pm

Ereaes wrote:I see your point cain, and understand what you are saying. And yet if you read up on all dicriptions of orcs, most despise humans, i mean absolutely despise humans. I mean its like you take a crockodile and make it loose its tail and stand on two legs, nature wont allow it to happen. By nature orcs are vile and cruel creatures, but the players behined them are not, thus most dont play them such, i would love to see a good rper play an orc, i mean truely play an orc as they should be played. I would actually pay money to see that. I mean im not saying all orcs on the game are happy go lucky, but most seem to be.

I mean some may be honerable. But most say "well every orc is an individual" but guess what if you were to take a concensus of teh orcs playing illa, most would be happy go lucky.

You're just looking at what you're looking for. What I mean by that is right now you're bent on seeing the problems with the orcs, possibly because you've taken notice to a few that have broken the stereotypical mold, and you're letting your mind only show you what are looking for. While you may acknowledge that there are others, you don't allow yourself to see the exact proportions. I can't claim to know the exact proportions, because I don't play, but that is what it sounds like is going on. In my playing experience in Illarion, I've found all ways of life in almost all race. From the flower orc, to the orc shaman, to the brutal orc who wants to kill everything. From the wise elf, to the moronic elf, to the crazed elf, etc. You just have to keep your eyes open at all times. I don't deny that there are players who RP peaceful orcs simply because they don't want to think evilly, but that number I'm sure is much, much less than of those who let their characters exist properly in an RP. And.. wouldn't a crocodile standing on two legs be more like a lizardman than an orc?

Ereaes · Post by **Ereaes** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:32 pm

Bah!! Im talking ooc here Garett, im mean seriously, think about it!! Read the descriptions for orcs any where, and you will find what i have been trying to say. The races are based off descriptions, i believe you will find very few discriptions that read "Oh yes the orcs are a goodly and kind race, they love flowers and jumping around llike little faireys."

Again i understand what your saying cain, but its the majority of the orcs that are happy go luckey, not the minority.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:34 pm

http://www.moonsilver.de/english/races/orks.htm

Right.

Ereaes · Post by **Ereaes** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:39 pm

Aye true, that is one of the dicriptions of orcs (though it looks a little updated since last i saw, whcih was a while ago). Hmm.....it does not describe the underlying relations between the races and orcs , and only speaks of battle between orcs, not orcs and other races. descriptive on their life style, yes, descriptive on their mentality, no.

Dónal Mason · Post by **Dónal Mason** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:40 pm

Yes, that is thwe description for THIS game. Meaning that orcs in Illarion are not the orcs featured in other games. There may be similarities, but you should take this description when thinking of orcs.

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:59 pm

Ereaes wrote:Hello one and all. Has any one else noticed the fact that now the orcs have strayed deffinately from there usual brutal path? I mean seriously, moonsilvers discription of them is much different then the way they are acting. ANd i know what you say "Its just a general stero typical thing, and each orc is an individual." I reply "give me a bloody break." read anything, anything that concerns orcs and you will get a description similar to this "A brutal, and merceless race, known for thier extreem temper and thier over all demouer that is evil and cruel." and yet here we have a orc knight, and orc flower thrower and all these other orcs who did nothing but prance around like rabits, please tell me I am not the only person who has seen this? Unless every body likes these happy go lucky orcs, i mean come on!!! They are bloody orcs! The same goes for the drow, i mean i remember one of my chars killed a "supposed" drow and everyone when into an uproar. I mean seriously, you now why most genrallistions exist? ITS BECAUSE MOST ARE TRUE!!!!!!!!

A brutal, and merceless race, known for thier extreem temper and thier over all demouer that is evil and cruel.

I believe the moonsilver description gives something else dear.

..And I quote:

Moonsilver da best wrote:The average orc is a little smaller than a human. Their skin is greenish, and two of the lower jaw teeth are longer than the others, and reach a little over the lips.

Their society cannot be described as organized, in fact, it consists of different tribes. The most of these tribes live as nomads, with a certain teritory in which they travel with their herds.. Pigs and sheep are their main nourishment.

Orcs do not build houses, they prefer living in caves. An orc tribe territory normally has several caves, some are natural, extended caves, others are digged out of the ground like mines. Some orcs have specialized in mining for ore and coal, and sometimes find rarer metals or even a few gems. The main tribe changes its cave with the seasons of the year, some individuals, shamans, old ones or the tribe leaders sometimes, live in the same cave or sometimes a hut over the whole year.

The most greater orc tribes are split into sub-tribes with a kind of sub-chiefs. The tribe leader, most of the time, is the strongest one, and one of the oldest. Usually the main shaman is the smartest one, and often, he is the real leader of the tribe by manipulating and impressing the chief. And sometimes simply by brewing his favourite beer.

The most orc tribes are quite poor, resulting in their way of living. Over the centuries, they have developed a rudimentary writing, consisting of different signs and scratch marks. In war times, an orc tribe leader developed an encrypted languague, allowing allies to exchange messages without leaving the enemy the possibility to read them.

The most orc tribes honor different gods. Oldra, for the most tribes, is the goddess of growing things, and is prayed to in spring. She is also called the "spring- goddess" by them. In Summer, they honor Brágon, the "daily-sun-maker" or "strong-in-summer". Since summertime often means wartime for an orc tribe, some tribes pray to Moshran, called "bone-crusher" or simply "blood lord". Either Moshran or Malachín is the war god of a tribe, sometimes both.

In Fall, the most tribes pray to Malachín, "the hunter", for a good hunt and to prepare for the hard winters. The winter caves must be filled with food for the tribe and its herds.

In Winter, the tribes live in the winter caves, and Cheerga is the honored goddess. Winter is the time of death, time of spirits, time of the ancestors. Some of the ancestors, their skulls, are placed in holy places in the winter quarters, and some in the chief's and shaman's quarters, to help them in their decisions and to speak to them in dreams.

Summertime often means wartime for an orc tribe. These wars are often territorial conflicts between the different orc tribes, not resulting in many deaths, often more a sport and training to the warriors. These conflicts include espionaging, stealing of animals, and some battles or battlegames to find out the strongest clan.

Since the tribes are quite poor, they tend to raid small villages or farms sometimes, if they don't have enough food for the next winter. Normally, orcs are not bloodthirsty, but when they fight with other races, their primary war tactics is to cause fear in their enemies. Captives who are too badly wounded to survive, are sometimes brutally killed after the battle, with the surviving captives witnessing it. Then, some of these captives, who show strength and a brave heart, will be given the possibility to escape, to spread the news and that way cause fear in the enemie's hearts. The others are sold as slaves or become personal servants, mostly peasants, cooks, or help the women with their work. If the slave is worthy and shows good work or strength, he is of strong blood, and may be given the choice to leave some day. Sometimes a slave marries a female orc, and becomes a member of the orc tribe that way, resulting in several half orcs.

Orcs have a different understanding of "Art" than a human or elf has. Orcish "poetry" follows no rhymes, but tells stories and produces disharmonic sounds to underline or describe situations. Same with orcish music. The melodies an orc produces with a flute or trumpet, can best be described as "loud", because they use the most instruments just for the fun and for loudness. Orcs seem to love the sound of a drum, too. "Normal" songs, if played by a good bard, can fascinate an orc too, but it may sound strange to him, like music from another culture always does.

Orcs don't like to make things complicated. In their mind, it is the best thing if a man says directly what he means, and does not make too many words. That's why they sometimes have problems with elves, who always take their time, and prefer a more metaphoric speech. If a human insults an orc, the orc would normally not immediately grab his sword, he would reply with a short, suiting answer, making a sport of making the other one look stupid. But since the orcish humor appears a little rough compared to a human's, it needs much training for a human to really provoke an orc ( if he does not start to insult the orc's tribe or race ). In the most cases, it's the human who attacks first.

"Normally, orcs are not bloodthirsty,"

Ereaes · Post by **Ereaes** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:01 pm

Well put Donal, well put.

Moirear Sian · Post by **Moirear Sian** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:26 pm

Misjbar wrote:"Normally, orcs are not bloodthirsty,"

Villains can presumably be out of the norm.

Fooser · Post by **Fooser** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:38 pm

Wow, I suggest everyone who has an orc just stops, one day they are too aggressive, the next they are..."flowery"?

Hermie · Post by **Hermie** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:50 pm

They were way too bloodthirsty before the wipe, like when Kensai was killed for asking an orc where his pants are, but I wouldn't call them flowery now, only in the way they speak maybe.

Funny how after they lose their skills from the wipe, they calm down?

Ooooh!!! No, I'm joking.

Pendar · Post by **Pendar** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:57 am

This is directly related to two points,
Number one we have thank god many new faces in the game

. So give people time to adjust to illarion.
Secondly we have a very strange occurance in game at the moment TB host's 95% of ingame activity and the guard is not only active but strong. Time will balance this but currently you play a blood thirsty orc or at least the type of orc we were use to pre-whipe...ban,,,trip to the cross...play with yourself in that order.
This situation will balance out with time as rp expands out of trollsbane and new "leading" characters step up. It is also a great oppurtunity for us to escape the stereo typical orc we had pre wipe. Some hybrid between a mutant turtle and tolkiens image

That is not to say all the orcs were badly played those of you who know me know I rped a lot with many orc characters something that was a pleasure to do.
It is merely an oppurtunity to redefine a races role in game, time will add balance I feel
Brian

Erart Ridoc · Post by **Erart Ridoc** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:09 am

Actually orcs did used to be alot meaner. It was nice, course till they killed you, but once you got em as allies, you were basically set

Rackere Diplomatre · Post by **Rackere Diplomatre** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:30 am

Erart Ridoc wrote:Actually orcs did used to be alot meaner. It was nice, course till they killed you, but once you got em as allies, you were basically set

Any sense in your post?

EDIT

Gabon Corad · Post by **Gabon Corad** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:44 am

lets put it this way if you are an orc you are emedatly shunned...orcs have no NCP support because they life in a fricken cave...dwarves have their smithen..elves have carpendry...halflings have farming...humans have Eliza...lizard and orc have nothing...if you do becaome an enemy to the town or silverbrand you will be wiped out quickly and easily because there are about 4 players who play evil chars any more...there are no dark smiths, farmers, or carpenders and i persoinally dont want to make one because i am to busey on my "flower orc" (which is a term Grutok used much

)
another reason...how are the orcs suppost to get wepons...dwarves!!! if we are enemys to Trollsbane your en ememy to Silverbrand and Greenbrier too. INSTANTLY!. Relven id like to see you play a non flower orc and try to get a bunch of orcs togather...oh, wait no one picks orcs because its hard to RP against the whole fricken population of players...and just because i am not totally brutal doesnt mean others arnt, one orc and you flip...what do u care anyway its not effecting you at all, your not a Knight so take a deep breath and chill out.
Tootles

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:09 am

Gabon Corad wrote:lizard and orc have nothing...

A cave with a depot, anvil, furnace, and a few other things is hardly nothing. Lizards have nothing because they have not developed a guild or community to build or buy anything. The bloodskulls however, did. You want more earn it!

Erart Ridoc · Post by **Erart Ridoc** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:09 am

Actually I said that.

Any sense in your post Rack

Gabon Corad · Post by **Gabon Corad** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:12 am

oops its been removed, sorry bout that

how do you earn NCPs can you please tell me that? i need to know so i can get to work.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:23 am

Gabon Corad wrote:oops its been removed, sorry bout that

how do you earn NCPs can you please tell me that? i need to know so i can get to work.

Ask a gm I guess.

Gabon Corad · Post by **Gabon Corad** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:27 am

thats what i though i wasnt complaining about the goods in the cave just the NCP support, thats what makes things strong or rich or powerful. plus i dont exactly have the best relationship with one very powerful GM in mind *cough* martin *cough*

Ereaes · Post by **Ereaes** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:32 am

Actually......telling me about rping an orc char is hard...i kinda already knew considering.....I HAD ONE!!!!! Ok....now with that out of my system, its true that trolls bane has almost everything you need. But orcs, if you read moonsilver, as Donal polightly showed me, they are mostly hunters and other such things, some being smiths, which there used to be a few. Orcs are not the most advanced of races, they usualy dont have fine wepons, or fine armour. When i say happy go lucky orcs, right now almost every single one playing (which is not that many) are, except perhaps for a few, such as turunga, or some such name.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:12 am

Gabon Corad wrote:one very powerful GM in mind *cough* martin *cough*

Ironically, martin is not a game master at all. You can make thousands of copper from player trades, I know because I already have.

Illarion.org

Orcs bloody well go flowery.

Orcs bloody well go flowery.

Re: Orcs bloody well go flowery.

Re: Orcs bloody well go flowery.