I know, its in prove, how this should work (at least this is written at the HP). But I have a problem with such generalize statements like this for clerics:
bad craftsman skills
Thats nice for an Irmorom-priest.
bad fighting skills
Similiar for Malachin-priest.
etc. pp.
Only my point of view...
Problems with Vocations-system
Moderator: Gamemasters
There's no need to be so glib, Moathia. He is saying that the rules for skills for priests, may, when implemented, contradict the roleplay of the characters.
Malachín is the god of battle and good luck in battle, would it not make sense for a priest of Malachín to defy the generalised lay-out of a priest, and be a good fighter.
I think that is the basic idea that Rugosch is trying to imply.
Malachín is the god of battle and good luck in battle, would it not make sense for a priest of Malachín to defy the generalised lay-out of a priest, and be a good fighter.
I think that is the basic idea that Rugosch is trying to imply.
Not only that.
In such a strictly system, theres no room for interesting other characters. A smith who have learned to use weapons and test it by himself and is good now. You can play such characters, but its too hard in my opinion.
If you want to limit the learning and have not so much different talents, then say i.e. its harder to learn anything the more you have learned for all your talents together.
Then you can have a fighter who can repair his own weapons and armor and maybe smith own (fighting skills and smithing).
Or a bard who build his own instruments (bard skills and carpentry/lumberjacking).
All possible without that harsh restictions.
And Ive checked, that this points are all in discussion and no one knows when it would come if it come, but better I post my opinion now than at a time, when its too late...
In such a strictly system, theres no room for interesting other characters. A smith who have learned to use weapons and test it by himself and is good now. You can play such characters, but its too hard in my opinion.
If you want to limit the learning and have not so much different talents, then say i.e. its harder to learn anything the more you have learned for all your talents together.
Then you can have a fighter who can repair his own weapons and armor and maybe smith own (fighting skills and smithing).
Or a bard who build his own instruments (bard skills and carpentry/lumberjacking).
All possible without that harsh restictions.
And Ive checked, that this points are all in discussion and no one knows when it would come if it come, but better I post my opinion now than at a time, when its too late...
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Adano Eles
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I don't like a generalized vocation- system at all.
Adano is a samurai/monk/paladin- mixture with his own personal traits and I like him the way he is. I like characters which aren't pressed into pre-made shapes but entirely customized the way the player wants them to be.
To make the characters of Illarion become really interesting and rich of variety players must be able to generate their chars in every possible way. Pre-set vocations can only be suggestions.
Adano is a samurai/monk/paladin- mixture with his own personal traits and I like him the way he is. I like characters which aren't pressed into pre-made shapes but entirely customized the way the player wants them to be.
To make the characters of Illarion become really interesting and rich of variety players must be able to generate their chars in every possible way. Pre-set vocations can only be suggestions.
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Naybet Grint
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I think magics should be kept seperate, or if a character has two types, he shold be serious limited in how good he could ever get with them both.
I don't think this for RP reasons, I think this for OOC reasons. Firstly it gives the different magic systems a bit more personality. Secondly a game is rapidly less fun when there the game balance is broken, and although it is feasible to combine magic systems in one character and maintain balance, it is incredibly hard work. Thirdly I like the need for characters to band together. If one character could do every type of magic they would have far less incentive to work with other characters. I think it is very important that everyone has weaknesses that they need other people to cover, as it leads to teaming together and far more interesting RP and gameplay.
I don't think this for RP reasons, I think this for OOC reasons. Firstly it gives the different magic systems a bit more personality. Secondly a game is rapidly less fun when there the game balance is broken, and although it is feasible to combine magic systems in one character and maintain balance, it is incredibly hard work. Thirdly I like the need for characters to band together. If one character could do every type of magic they would have far less incentive to work with other characters. I think it is very important that everyone has weaknesses that they need other people to cover, as it leads to teaming together and far more interesting RP and gameplay.
I know they use different stamina attributes. THey still would. THere wouldn't be anything like RA *bard note* or something. I just mean that if you wish to learn magic runes and priest spells, you should be able to. The main reason this is plausible is because of the skil lcap they're putting in. With that, it limits how good one can get with the different types of magic. This will cause more people to specialize, but i think the choice should be available.
First, there should be seperate bars for god's grace and love of life.
Second, The menu could be expanded to hold more.
Third, balancing is an issue no matter what. If needbe, an overall cap could be put in (meaning you can only grandmaster x amount of runes/hymns/herbs/notes). However I think it would balance itself if the daily cap works, since the person could then only train so many runes/whatevers each day.
Second, The menu could be expanded to hold more.
Third, balancing is an issue no matter what. If needbe, an overall cap could be put in (meaning you can only grandmaster x amount of runes/hymns/herbs/notes). However I think it would balance itself if the daily cap works, since the person could then only train so many runes/whatevers each day.
The problem with the balance of the game isn't just the amount of skills (in fact, it's not the skills at all), it would be that one who masters a handful of runes, a handful of priest (things), and a handful of bardic (things) will be able to replenish his mana, heal himself, *and* cast iceflame and paralyze as though it were easy.
I don't know if you want to go to battle against this person, but if that's your wish I and two gamesmasters can summon you to the GM tower someday and demonstrate on why you don't want to take on three spellcaster types at once.
As for giving you more bars and menus, we'll do this as soon as you start programming the client to be like this. While if you proposed a new spell, this is a simple a script that can be added at any time. Proposing that the client is dramatically altered will get another sort of answer.
Aegohl
I don't know if you want to go to battle against this person, but if that's your wish I and two gamesmasters can summon you to the GM tower someday and demonstrate on why you don't want to take on three spellcaster types at once.
As for giving you more bars and menus, we'll do this as soon as you start programming the client to be like this. While if you proposed a new spell, this is a simple a script that can be added at any time. Proposing that the client is dramatically altered will get another sort of answer.
Aegohl
Hmm, I see your point, and have come up with some balancing ideas.
1. After casting a spell, you may not cast a different class spell for 5 seconds.
2. Instead of mana, god's grace, and joy of life, combine them to make "Mystic stamina". THis way you won't have three times as much casting stamina.
Those alone should keep it in check, and using those along with the other factors, look at it this way:
Mage vs mix.
We'll even say the mix gets the first cast. So of course he'll paralyze, but his paralyze not being as good as a specializer, it may only last for say 3 seconds, meaning he could only cast other bardic spells, like maybe reduce mystic ability or enhance his own. But he couldn't really do any damage. The mage is unparalyzed, maybe with a small bit of weakening, and he immediately flames the guy (iceflame and flame should be even, i see no reason why ice is stronger
). Since he mastered his offense, the flame damn near kills the mix. next the mix will of course heal himself (by this time the 5 seconds is easily over). It won't do enough to fulyl heal, after all he couldnt master his heal. Since he only has priet magic available for a few seconds, maybe next he'll cast a lightning bolt (now isnt the time to argue that priests shouldnt get any offensive spells). The mage will of course be hurt, but not signifigantly. The mage would then probably flame the guy again. With that much damage, he'll probably kill the mix guy with that and will have won, suffering not much damage to himself.
Bard vs Mix
I know, this isn't really fair, a bard wont be an offensive king, and is meant for support, but here goes anyway. We'll give the bard first shot this time. He will cast paralyze, and will have the mix frozen for about 10 seconds (not sure about exact grandmaster paralyze specs). During this time, the bard will cast a couple weakening spells on him and maybe a buff on himself. THe mix will be unparalyzed by this time and will probably fire a flame at the bard. A medium strength flame will do quite a bit of damage still, but nothing lethal. The bard will probably poison the guy, that being the nearest thing to offense a bard might have (again, not the place to correct or argue as to what vocation can do what). THe mix will then wait a few seconds so he can depoison himself, during which time the bard's poison wil ldo some damage. The bard will also probably paralyze him again. Durin this time the bard will attack with whatever weapon he has, not doing too much. Once unparalyzed, the mix unpoisons himself and then heals himself. He'll then fight back for a few seconds until he can cast another flame. This will probably kil lthe bard, but he'll be near death himself, or at least weakened a bunch. Depending on other circumstances the mix could lose also.
Priest vs Mix
Priest loses, any offense it could have wouldnt be enough, and his healing will only work so long before his stamina runs out. It will probably do some damage to the mix, maybe half or so at most.
As you can see, this is basically leaves one mix loses, one mix can win, and one mix most definitely wins. Balanced.
As for things, the manual says the priest things are hymns and the bard things are notes.
EDIT: all that would be left to do is make more room for notes/runes/hymns. I'm not sure how hard this would be, I don't know the langauge well enough. But I'm sure it wouldn't be much harder than making the spell menu in the first place was.
1. After casting a spell, you may not cast a different class spell for 5 seconds.
2. Instead of mana, god's grace, and joy of life, combine them to make "Mystic stamina". THis way you won't have three times as much casting stamina.
Those alone should keep it in check, and using those along with the other factors, look at it this way:
Mage vs mix.
We'll even say the mix gets the first cast. So of course he'll paralyze, but his paralyze not being as good as a specializer, it may only last for say 3 seconds, meaning he could only cast other bardic spells, like maybe reduce mystic ability or enhance his own. But he couldn't really do any damage. The mage is unparalyzed, maybe with a small bit of weakening, and he immediately flames the guy (iceflame and flame should be even, i see no reason why ice is stronger
). Since he mastered his offense, the flame damn near kills the mix. next the mix will of course heal himself (by this time the 5 seconds is easily over). It won't do enough to fulyl heal, after all he couldnt master his heal. Since he only has priet magic available for a few seconds, maybe next he'll cast a lightning bolt (now isnt the time to argue that priests shouldnt get any offensive spells). The mage will of course be hurt, but not signifigantly. The mage would then probably flame the guy again. With that much damage, he'll probably kill the mix guy with that and will have won, suffering not much damage to himself.Bard vs Mix
I know, this isn't really fair, a bard wont be an offensive king, and is meant for support, but here goes anyway. We'll give the bard first shot this time. He will cast paralyze, and will have the mix frozen for about 10 seconds (not sure about exact grandmaster paralyze specs). During this time, the bard will cast a couple weakening spells on him and maybe a buff on himself. THe mix will be unparalyzed by this time and will probably fire a flame at the bard. A medium strength flame will do quite a bit of damage still, but nothing lethal. The bard will probably poison the guy, that being the nearest thing to offense a bard might have (again, not the place to correct or argue as to what vocation can do what). THe mix will then wait a few seconds so he can depoison himself, during which time the bard's poison wil ldo some damage. The bard will also probably paralyze him again. Durin this time the bard will attack with whatever weapon he has, not doing too much. Once unparalyzed, the mix unpoisons himself and then heals himself. He'll then fight back for a few seconds until he can cast another flame. This will probably kil lthe bard, but he'll be near death himself, or at least weakened a bunch. Depending on other circumstances the mix could lose also.
Priest vs Mix
Priest loses, any offense it could have wouldnt be enough, and his healing will only work so long before his stamina runs out. It will probably do some damage to the mix, maybe half or so at most.
As you can see, this is basically leaves one mix loses, one mix can win, and one mix most definitely wins. Balanced.
As for things, the manual says the priest things are hymns and the bard things are notes.
EDIT: all that would be left to do is make more room for notes/runes/hymns. I'm not sure how hard this would be, I don't know the langauge well enough. But I'm sure it wouldn't be much harder than making the spell menu in the first place was.
Not quite correct:
Mage vrs. Mix: Mix paralyzes, heals himself, iceflames, and paralyzes again. Then he poisons everything in a three mile radius while making an antidote for himself. Mage sits there and takes it as paralyze (hopefully as I proposed) is no longer a mage spell.
Bard vrs. Mix: Bard paralyzes, but can't think of anything to do while the Mix is paralyzed. He identifies a magic item or two as he waits and writes a letter to his good friend Artagio. The mix comes back from being paralyzed and looks quite angry. The bard casts some friendly enchantments in the hopes that it will make the mix happy. The mix is not amused and eats the bard.
Priest vrs. Mix: Close, but even more deadly for the priest.
That leaves three for three on the mix's side, and still doesn't answer who will reprogram the client to have more room for herbs, runes, and other things all at once. Between the mage runes and the Gm runes, my rune menu is quite full enough, thank you.
Aegohl
Mage vrs. Mix: Mix paralyzes, heals himself, iceflames, and paralyzes again. Then he poisons everything in a three mile radius while making an antidote for himself. Mage sits there and takes it as paralyze (hopefully as I proposed) is no longer a mage spell.
Bard vrs. Mix: Bard paralyzes, but can't think of anything to do while the Mix is paralyzed. He identifies a magic item or two as he waits and writes a letter to his good friend Artagio. The mix comes back from being paralyzed and looks quite angry. The bard casts some friendly enchantments in the hopes that it will make the mix happy. The mix is not amused and eats the bard.
Priest vrs. Mix: Close, but even more deadly for the priest.
That leaves three for three on the mix's side, and still doesn't answer who will reprogram the client to have more room for herbs, runes, and other things all at once. Between the mage runes and the Gm runes, my rune menu is quite full enough, thank you.
Aegohl
Mage vs mix: we are talkign about it after my proposed balancing. The mix wouldnt be able to heal himself, since his paralyze would give him at most 5 seconds (anbd my proposal says he cant cast another class' spell in that time), and by then the mage is back, and angry. Barbecued mix anyone?
edit: forgot to comemnt on the others.
Your bard one is very flawed (unl3ess youi're making that and know it would be like that, which i doubt). The bard would do fine. He'd weaken the enemy and buff himself so damned much that it'd make up for his limite doffensive magic. Go paralyze!
edit: forgot to comemnt on the others.
Your bard one is very flawed (unl3ess youi're making that and know it would be like that, which i doubt). The bard would do fine. He'd weaken the enemy and buff himself so damned much that it'd make up for his limite doffensive magic. Go paralyze!