Neuer Server und Spenden/New server and donations

martin · Post by **martin** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:28 pm

Euch wird in den letzten Tagen und Wochen sicherlich aufgefallen sein, dass es gröbere Hardwareprobleme mit dem Server gab. Diese sind durch eine defekte Festplatte ausgeloest worden und hatten leider zur Folge, dass es eine relativ lange offline-Zeit gab. (Es ist weiterhin unklar, ob weitere dadurch ausgelöste Probleme noch auftauchen werden, da die konkrete Ursachen unbekannt sind) Des Weiteren war, wie man leider auch merkte, die Datenbank defekt, die Auswirkungen davon bekam man auf den Foren zu spüren, wo posten zum Glücksspiel wurde.

Schon längere Zeit vor diesem Unfall spielten wir mit dem Gedanken, einen eigenen Server zu kaufen. Was uns bisher davon abgehalten hat sind die doch relativ hohen Anschaffungskosten. Der momentane Server ist gemietet, hat veraltete Hardware (Pentium 4 mit 1,2 GHz, 256 MB RAM) und ist physisch nicht zugänglich (dh. es kann niemand von uns hingehen und Teile ausbauen oder austauschen). Das ist aus technischer Sicht relativ unbefriedigend, weil sich einerseits damit Fehleranalysen sehr schwierig gestalten und andererseits auch die Hardware sehr unflexibel ist, da wir nicht einfach ein wenig mehr RAM einbauen (lassen) können. Denn dies würde momentan heißen, dass wir einen anderen Server mieten müssten, dort dann das Betriebssystem neu installiert werden muss und so weiter.

Mit einem eigenen Server, der auch physischen Zugang erlaubt, kann man jederzeit testweise bestimmte Komponenten einbauen, erweitern oder tauschen und so sehen, ob es sich positiv auf die Performance des Servers auswirkt. Und auch bei Fehlern, die immer wieder auftreten können (wie es momentan ja der Fall ist), kann so viel effektiver und schneller analysiert werden, was getan werden muss, um das System wieder zum Laufen zu bringen.

Momentan fallen für die Servermiete monatliche Kosten an, die vom Illarion-Staff durch freiwillige Spenden bestritten werden. Einen eigenen Server könnten wir zumindest für einige Zeit kostenlos an der Technischen Universität Wien unterstellen, wodurch in dieser Zeit keine regelmäßig zu begleichenden Rechnungen anfallen würden. Dafür natürlich sind die einmaligen Beschaffungskosten sehr hoch, sodass im Endeffekt aus finanziellen Gründen, auf längere Sicht, keines der beiden Modelle wesentliche Vor- oder Nachteile gegenüber dem anderen hätte, allein die technischen Gründe liegen deutlich auf der Seite des eigenen Servers.

Diese Anschaffungskosten überschreiten klarerweise unser momentanes Budget, das heißt die Summe, die wir für das Begleichen der monatlichen Kosten heranziehen. Um nun abschätzen zu können, ob eine Anschaffung überhaupt möglich ist und wenn, dann wieviel Geld wir dafür zur Verfügung hätten, würden wir euch, also die Spielerschaft, gerne fragen, inwieweit ihr bereit seid, für einen solchen Server zu spenden. Die Anschaffungskosten betragen zwischen 2000 und 2500 Euro, sind also doch beachtlich. Dafür hätten wir natürlich sehr gute Hardware zur Verfügung, die sich auf die Performance des Servers mit Sicherheit positiv auswirkt.

Was euch auch klar sein muss ist, dass mit einer freiwilligen Spende keinerlei Rechte oder Ansprüche entstehen. Man darf nicht erwarten, dass ein Spender nicht gebannt würde, wenn er die Regeln bricht oder immer ein lagfreies Spiel hat und so weiter. Es soll auch nicht so sein, dass jemand hungert, nur damit ein neuer Illarionserver gekauft werden kann.

Wir sind dabei, einen eingetragenen Verein zu gründen, was mehrere Vorteile für uns bietet. Unter anderem ist damit auch eine Finanzierung des Servers über Spenden rechtlich abgesichert, weiters gibt es damit eine eindeutige Antwort auf die Frage, wer der Besitzer des Servers ist: Der Verein nämlich.

Wer dazu bereit wäre zu spenden, der möge sich unter donation@illarion.org melden und verlautbaren, welchen Betrag er oder sie dafür entbehren könnte. Um ein möglichst gutes Bild von der tatsächlichen Situation und den dann vorhandenen Mitteln haben zu können, bitte ich darum, nur dann zu schreiben, wenn ihr tatsächlich ernsthaft vor habt zu spenden. Das Mail wird nicht von einem Gamemaster, sondern nur von Aragon gelesen. Den Gamemastern ist daher unbekannt, wer wieviel spenden möchte.

Der Illarion Staff.

---

You may have noticed some of the major problems we've experienced with
the server hardware during the past weeks. These were caused by a
defective harddisk and the most obvious consequence of this, has been the rather
long downtime of the server. (It remains unclear whether further problems, caused by the same defect, will occur in the future, as we have not yet spotted the main cause) The same malfunctions also lead to a damaged SQL-database, which caused the recent forum anomalies.

For some time before this accident now, some of us have been considering to buy a server of our own. What hindered thus far was the relatively high costs involved. Our current server, which is rented and has old hardware (Pentium 4 with 1,2 GHz, 256 MB RAM), is not physically accessible for us (which basically means that none of us can go there to install or change hardware). This is, from a technical point of view, unsatisfactory as any changing or updating of server parts would require us to rent and install an entire new server, as well as the problems with analysing errors or resolving hardware issues.

Thus, if we owned our own server, and had direct access to it, experimenting with or updating the hardware would be possible, improving performance. Additionally, if any issues or malfunctions should arise, such as the recent ones, we would be able to analyse and remedy the problem much faster.

At the moment the monthly fee for the rented server is covered by contributions from the Illarion staff. If we were to buy a server, we could keep it at the Technical University of Vienna for free, and from a financial point of view in long term, there is no real difference between paying a monthly fee or a one off large sum. Thus, it's only technical reasons that clearly speak for owning a server instead of renting one.

The expenses for such a server clearly exceed the money we currently have to pay the monthly fees with. In order to be able to estimate whether the acquisition of such a server is, in principle, possible for us as well as how much money we could raise for that purpose, we would ask you, the players of Illarion, how far you are able and willing to donate for such an investment. The expenses would be somewhere around 2000 to 2500 Euro (about the same amount in US-$), which is quite a lot of money. However, then we'd have very good hardware and a lot of flexibility, which would surely have positive effects on the servers performance.

You have to be aware, though, that you would not purchase any special rights through the contribution of money. You will still be banned from the game after violating the game rules if you donate, and nor would the lag disappear immediately. However, we will not support having people starving, just to have a new Illarion server.

Therefore, We are going to found a registered society, which will have several advantages. Among those, it will legalize us to accept monetary donations and buy a server with them. Furthermore this registered society would then be the owner of this server.

If you are willing to donate to this worthy cause, please write an e-mail to donation@illarion.org and tell us how much you would be able to donate. This is so that we may estimate how much money we will have available to buy that server, and we ask you to be honest and only write in the case that you actually will make such a donation. The mails will only be read by Aragon, therefore gamemasters will not know who will donate how much money.

Thank you.

The staff of Illarion

Misjbar · Post by **Misjbar** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:34 pm

Would you also be able to do donations with err...how do you call it.
Giro? (Not sure wether that is the right word..I think Germans call it Konto or something)

EDIT

Giro-Konto

Belegi · Post by **Belegi** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:52 pm

Du solltest dies vielleicht auch im Bereich "Aktuelle News" auf illarion.org eintragen, da es immer noch Leute gibt, die nicht jedes Posting auf dem Forum lesen.

Habt ihr schonmal an einer "Fördermitgliedschaft" gedacht, sprich, keine Einmalzahlung sondern quartalsweiser Bankeinzug von Spendern? Just an idea...

Drogla · Post by **Drogla** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:58 pm

"Therefore, We are going to found a registered society, which will have several advantages."

I am just wondering what some advantages would be? Testing the next client? skill boosts? Faster charector creation?
What?

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:03 am

Read it.
A clear situation concerning server ownership (thus securing it), a clear handling of organisation property ( server and client code ), as well as being able to handle even bad situations without resulting in the end of illarion. We'll be able to ensure illarion's existance with that, as well as ongoing development.

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:34 am

A "registered society" are not "Premium User" or "Pay to Play" things, this is something that has to do with real life laws and bureaucracy, Drogla.
You will not notice anything at all.

Gro'bul · Post by **Gro'bul** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:09 am

Is this donation going to be via a web program like paypal? Or will we have to send donations by mail? I am interested in the specs of the new server, just to see what I'm donating for. I know your just assesing the approximate monetary resources you have now, but surely you have been looking into multiple things that you would possibly like to purchase. I just like to have as much information as possible. Also, what will become of the old server?

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:40 am

@ Gro'bul,

The expenses would be somewhere around 2000 to 2500 Euro (about the same amount in US-$)

As for the old server, considering it is rented, I would think that ... ye know.. they just kinda... stop renting it? Or is that utterly naive and silly?

Edit: @Darlok (below)
Naturally, old boy, I do love to see you angry

Darlok · Post by **Darlok** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:40 am

I belive since the server we are currently playing on is rented, the contract will be canceled/run out and it will be rented to someone else.

Why do you have to post this at the same moment with me, Mishrak?
You just waited for this, confess !

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:58 am

I do not believe in (neither trust) web programs that have to deal with my financial information. For overseas payment, I prefer money orders, personal checks, and cashiers checks.
Any of those options available overseas? How about Western Union?

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:27 am

I will try to answer all your questions:

1) It will be possible to donate via giro-konto.

2) It will probably be possible with paypal. (If someone has worked with paypal before, please contact me)

3) It will also be possible to donate at RL meetings.

However, we will not be able to buy the server right now. (probably) We first need to found that registered society, which will take several weeks after everything was prepared.

4) The advantages of the registered society are that we can easily and legaly accept donations without getting into troubles with the law. Furthermore, as Damien already mentioned, the ownage of the server hardware and all the software is clear then. There are some more advantages which are technical details and will not be of interest here. However, that does in no way mean that playing is not free anymore! Illarion stays a free online game.

5) Yes, you can become "supporting member" of this registered society. However, since we won't have regular fees to pay in the next time, this does not have much sense. It would make sense if we'd have to pay for server hosting.

6) The server specs we are looking for are:
Dual Xeon (MAYBE Opteron) (2,4 or 2,67 GHz each), 1 GB RAM in a 19"-rack and 2 height units maximum, 2 Harddisks with about 80 GB each, raid-1. This will have the price I mentioned earlier. However, if we do not get enough money, we will decrease our requirement.

7) The old server is rented, we do not own it. That means: We just cancle the contract with the server hoster (1&1) and that's it. We just wouldn't have to pay the monthly fee anymore.

As mentioned, there will be multiple possibilities. I have no clue what you mean by Western Union. Money orders cost quite a lot, but you can do that also.

Martin

Konstantin K · Post by **Konstantin K** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:52 am

Right on!

Sweet explanation.

I support the idea. And so that all peopel believe you're telling the truth - simply take a camera, make a picture of you (I know what you look like), with the old server, and a picture of you with the new purchased server!

Then we will all know where the money went.

Western Union is a service available in banks of most countries. It's a system of money transfers.

A money order is not worth a lot in my bank, so as long as I know the address of the person, their true real name - it is possible easily.

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:12 am

Noone of us ever saw the actual server. That is this problem of physical accessability. It is located somewhere in Karlsruhe. I cannot take a picture of it, none of us can. As for a new one: That would be possible easily, as soon as we have one.

Martin

Johann Endan · Post by **Johann Endan** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:35 pm

Ich denke ein kleiner Betrag könnte auch ich entbehren, doch ich hab zuvor noch nie irgendwas gespendet

. Kann mir daher jemand sagen wie das theoretisch funktionieren würde wenn man aus dem Ausland kommt?

Ich danke jetzt schon mal für Antworten.

martin · Post by **martin** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:39 pm

Es wird verschiedene Moeglichkeiten geben.
Die einfachste ist wohl einfach eine Ueberweisung.

Martin

Johann Endan · Post by **Johann Endan** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:41 pm

Kann man auch Überweisungen machen wenn man noch nicht Volljährig ist?

Nartak Ironmaster · Post by **Nartak Ironmaster** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:01 pm

Johann Endan wrote:Kann man auch Überweisungen machen wenn man noch nicht Volljährig ist?

Allerdings.

Yakin · Post by **Yakin** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:17 pm

Überweisungen innerhalb Europas sind überhaupt kein Problem.
Ist auch nicht mit grossen Zusatzkosten seitens der Bank verbunden.

Mishrack · Post by **Mishrack** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:56 pm

Ist auch nicht mit grossen Zusatzkosten seitens der Bank verbunden.

I'd call £15 (~ €22) a somewhat sizeable sum...

Brendan Mason · Post by **Brendan Mason** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:09 pm

Can we stick a wad of money in an envelope and post it off to you, since you'll be taking actual cash at the RL meetings?

Rackere Diplomatre · Post by **Rackere Diplomatre** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:31 pm

Brandan, it is difficult to exchange money here because the banks take money for changing it.
If you haven't another possibility (like international transfer via IBAN) it should be possible.

Caranthir the great · Post by **Caranthir the great** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:36 pm

I thought that Ireland (Éire!) has Euro too..
(Same currency)

Rackere Diplomatre · Post by **Rackere Diplomatre** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:00 pm

Argh, you're right... Brendan is Irish

Jeremy Gems Willowbrook · Wed Oct 06, 2004 9:19 pm

I do not have a credit card so would have to send money manually.
Specs of the new server? Why worry...better for llarion to own its server rather than renting for the reasons already stated. I cannot afford to donate much but definitely count me in. (Email to follow shortly.)
If this safeguards Illarion and my ability to play this excellent game then thats fine by me. Excellent idea and long may Illarion continue and grow.

Damian
PO Jeremy Willowbrook

Alora Ironforge · Post by **Alora Ironforge** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:51 pm

Email Sent.

Tzi Hahasus · Post by **Tzi Hahasus** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:20 pm

Western Union charges a good bit for a money transfer, however--I sent $50.00 to another country and paid a $20.00 fee to do so.

martin · Post by **martin** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:45 pm

In principle, WU could also be an option. However, 20$ is a lot of money...

Martin

Rackere Diplomatre · Post by **Rackere Diplomatre** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:07 am

I would prefer Paypal...
www.paypal.com

Aristeaus · Post by **Aristeaus** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:14 pm

Righto E-mail sent :p

martin · Post by **martin** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:30 pm

Once again:
We will accept DIFFERENT kinds of ways to donate. This was already mentioned in the original posting.

However, if you know better about paypal, western union and so on, please let us know.

And one important thing:
Posting that you will donate is nice, but it does not help much. What counts is a number sent to the e-mail adress I posted.
Until now, only a few people did that, which will lead to the result that we will not be able to gather enough money to buy a new server, no matter how many people posted on the boards.

Martin