TO the new people and to every one who wishes to hear

[Moirear Sian]

Oh boy, how I wish we could not change armors and weapons that quickly when engaged or engaging in battle.
"Oh, I take to much damage/dont inflict enouth!" *click ... drag ... click*
"I have changed my armor or/and weapon, now I rox0r."

It's beginning to dawn on me why I have to RP Sian's defeat so often, even though I designed my character to be a nimble, clever duelist.
I'm wondering sometimes though, am I the only person who believes it's stupid that fighter characters can never be successful wearing leathermail?

I mean, I guess the problem is that people just still don't know the RL-basics of armor.
IRL it takes about 20 minutes to don a platemail, about 5-10 for a chainmail. Did you know that in medieval times, and any other time, people could not don a platemail alone? One to two people had to help them. This is just some food for thought for some people.
Also, it all has to sit neatly, and be buckled/strapped into place, otherwise the armor effectively is more dangerous for the person wearing it, than a protection.
And have you ever tried to sit down in a platemail? Have you ever tried to sleep in one?

Don't ask me why, but PO Val de Gausse and me must be the only idiots left who still try outfitting a fighter character with a full leather armor, anyway, and actually RP the encumberments of heavy armor.

I mean...my char thinks Burlow or Mia is getting extremely rich, and loaded with clothing and everything. And the PO knows it!

That's my problem with it-
Any rich character that donates will just be improving his rep with the donations. Any poor character, will effectively be even poorer after it. The problem is, these items go to Mia and Burlow's characters effectively, and that's the frustrating thing about. It's actually not the resources and money they get from this that bugs me, rather than how this fosters their reputation.
They'll go around saying IG their characters are so great,
but neither of seem to have heard of Peter Fertas,
neither of them took a second to think if someone should look after Young Prince Malvita,
neither of them noticed a little girl named Alexandra,
neither of them seem to see that there's a little orc girl named Negregisa running around town looking for toys.
Just some examples of young characters I've seen ig.
And at the same time, they're sitting on hundreds of items they shouldn't even have, if they were as great and caring as they say, as these things are not meant for them, but for the orphans. Now you see, if you'd consequently RP on, and say you and the orphans are starting to make things to donate to the sick and poor, and you started handing those items back out to other needy characters, it would make a bit more sense to me.
Maybe you people should take some more time to read some #me-descriptions and RP with unknown characters, because there are apparently a bunch of young characters on the island, all of them without guidance and without home. The problem is you won't see this by the ig-graphics alone.
You see, I'm not always ig, but I really don't ever see Burlow nor Handur helping these other child characters. It is infinitely more challenging to deal with child characters in RP, as they are actually played by someone. If my character is, i.e. to little orc girl Negregisa, kind and generous, or ignorant and stingy, there are consequences to my RP with her, depending on how PO Negregisa lets her character react to mine. Being kind and generous to her can effectively give you some ig-rep, resulting in the little orc girl liking you, her daddy Gurik looking at you in a more positive light, and generally some other orcs notice you're not biased against them. (Maybe. It depends on your RP, and that's the important point about it.)
Now after following that thought, explain to me why anybody should play along with an orphanage they can't even see ig, and of which they know OOC it only fills the pockets of the "responsible" characters; while IC they see these chars getting rich off of it, and most people already fail to play along with others who play young characters!
The dangers in this style of play is that characters like Brendan Mason and Moirear Sian will eventually come up and start saying nasty things about them ic. I mean, if the character Sian would "logically" judge what he's see from Handur lately, then she must be a witch in friendly disguise, Burlow a warlock, and they must be setting up an army of goblins underneath the Seahorse (child-sized clothing, 1000 small healing potions, neither Burlow nor Mia will show the children?).
To boil it down into one sentence:
It's forced RP.
OOC, as well as IC, I have to simply accept that Burlow and Mia are just swell.

Does anybody want to tell me that it is legitimate to get yourself a good reputation and character resources ig by simply making up an orphanage, and a bunch of kids that don't even exist?
I mean, isn't this just a new form of powergaming in disguise?

(Little side-note: if you would have discussed it OOC with other players, someone could have told you that someone had been robbed in the Seahorse only weeks before this orphanage fiasco. And someone else murdered two children in there a bit before that. I think you would have then thought twice about the Seahorse, or Troll's Bane, or the island at all, for that.)

[Irania]

Sian you are my hero. You have put into words what I as a player have felt but haven't found the words to express.

[Kasume]

Sian, I have a small disagreement. You are sorting through IC and OOC problems. And this is more of an IC problem. Characters that may have a connection with Burlow and Mia, can decide and make their characters against them for producing a scandal. Even when they say that they have these children, and they may actually do, but simply your character does not believe it. There is nothing wrong with your character being wrong IC. IF ANY seeing person saw a woman that promoted the idea of donating to orphans, and was getting a huge warm feedback on it. The next day carrying expensive jewlery and such, wouldn't YOU get a little suspicious? It's nature.

As a personal opinion though, I have nothing against the role play of having orphans and such. As long as the donated items that are sitting in your depot thrown out as an OOC measure, substituting the giving to the children. If you're using it to further advance your character, then it's an IG problem more so an OOC.

How that got into this topic, I'm confused.

This topic, from what I remember, is about Rith...
And I have nothing to say about him. Anyhow, directed towards Darlok.

By the way, I cant really see where you can take my post so personaly insulting.
May you enlighten me.

When I first began, I hadn't even veiwed over the forums. And I don't think I had planned to. Untill I realized that an account acceptance system was required. Leading me into a forum account and such. Meaning, I had no clue what some of the things were. What I was suppose to do... and what not. What should I put in for this and that? I hadn't the slightest clue.

My character's attributes are a mystery to me. Because whatever I was smoking, I obviously made an alright character. He's not too weak. And he's not too powerful. How I like it in my opinion. Although, when I have people assuming that I knew everything when creating my character, I take it as an insult. I was personally offended that I should be the all knowing before creating a character. Yes, I admit. I was being a bit dumb and just jumped into creating a character. But think of it this way, would you rather it be worse and me putting my attributes into something that would have made my character as strong as possible and be even in a WORSE situation of my character than he is already in? How am I to know what to role play when I didn't even remember my attributes. You could say, I did it on purpose.

The first three letters of assume.

[Gro'bul]

Ask for proof of their caring before you donate, demand to see the children and ask for their names. Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to do anything. You can say NO, its not against the rules FYI.

[Moirear Sian]

Exactly, Gro'Bul.

This is from the thread in the off-topic discussion concerning the orphanage:

This whole idea with a ship full of kids is strange.

There is no orphanage on greenbriar as Brendan stated before, so why discuss it? If someone IG says, there is an orphanage on GB, he is simply a liar.

Sian, I have a small disagreement. You are sorting through IC and OOC problems. And this is more of an IC problem.

To explain how this got here Kasume, read the title of the thread. I still consider myself a relatively new player, and these are just some personal opinions.
You see, I share the opinion of PO Shukk, which I quoted up there, basically.
I could solve this IC.
But then, as a relatively new player I ask you, would I have an angry OOC mob behind PO Mia Handur that are trying to pester me out of the game for it, out of OOC reasons? Or what? Because if I go look into the RPG section now, there's a post of helping transport the children from A to B, children which don't even exist. The post also implies that my character is a bad person if he does not assist, or even questions whether these children exist or not.
Because as you see, what I write here is no attack to anybody. I'm just complaining about somethîng that annoys me in the game, because it's both a problem OOC as well as IC.
Communication is obviously not working properly, however the game is supposed to be enjoyable for everybody.

[Kasume]

I agree with Gro'Bul.

But Sian,
You are complaining about an IC matter in OOC as I see it.
Maybe we are just on different brain patterns or so.

[Misjbar]

but neither of seem to have heard of Peter Fertas,

Peter Fertas is no longer an orphan, that is atleast one thing explained

[Moirear Sian]

Kasume, yes.
I am complaining about an IC matter OOC.
Because there might be an OOC thing related to this.

OOC, I still do not know what is going on. I demand that Mia Handur, Doc Burlow, and some GMs put their words on this. Do I have to play along now with some "orphans" I can't see ig, or not?

And will I get "player mobbed", OOC, if I condone my own opinions and RP out the conflict of children that are not there?

These questions remain unanswered.

[Bloodhearte]

Hey i was on yesterday.......sorry rith but this is what i must say, to all you new people DONT POWER GAME!! Rith you were able to beat me and how long have you been on?? My charecter is master at parry and cuncusion wepons and yet i was beaten twise these two weeks.

It could be because your character is a midget with scrawny arms.

Seriously though, it's as if you play from your own perspective, and not your character. Newbies have been kicking older characters' butts for about a year and a half now. Just accept that your character is strong, and be happy with that.

People, remember there is more to combat than size and might. If it were that easy, we'd have a million BJ Penns running around and every body builder would be a champion in UFC or PRIDE. Maybe, it's your ignorance of the complete combat system that caused you to lose?

[Bloodhearte]

Don't ask me why, but PO Val de Gausse and me must be the only idiots left who still try outfitting a fighter character with a full leather armor, anyway, and actually RP the encumberments of heavy armor.

Actually buddy, let me join your club. Call me idiot #3.

My character Kahzid Abjar wears leather, and ONLY leather. His attributes fit that of, what you mentioned, a clever duelist that relies more on skill than size.

Generally, in unarmed combat, a bigger fella will beat a little fella. But a REALLY skilled little fella will be able to take down many a big fella.

Ever heard of the flyweight Welsh boxer, Jimmy Wilde? 111 pounds he was. He fought over a hundred times, and lost only a few fights. Not only that, but he didn't only fight flyweights; he fought fighters from every weight division.

[Caranthir the great]

Generally, in unarmed combat, a bigger fella will beat a little fella. But a REALLY skilled little fella will be able to take down many a big fella.

But the again: what about the REALLY skilled bigger fellas?

Newbies have been kicking older characters' butts for about a year and a half now.

Year and a half? JUST year and a half..? Make that three. Oh well, I guess that it depends on the character.

[Moirear Sian]

Yes. I agree with you fully, Bloodhearte.

But I still have no explanation on the Orphanage story.
I have a character who is somewhat like Robin Hood; his code of conduct could be:
"Steal from the rich, give to the poor."
I really can't continue playing until this issue is resolved.
It is central to how I RP the character.

[Bloodhearte]

But the again: what about the REALLY skilled bigger fellas?

They'll flat out kill ya. But it doesn't help if they don't have the perception or learning capacity to gain such skill, assuming they're attributes are concentrated on only being big.

Year and a half? JUST year and a half..? Make that three. Oh well, I guess that it depends on the character.

Say, you're an old fart of a player. I'll take yer word for it.

[Bloodhearte]

Yes. I agree with you fully, Bloodhearte.

But I still have no explanation on the Orphanage story.
I have a character who is somewhat like Robin Hood; his code of conduct could be:
"Steal from the rich, give to the poor."
I really can't continue playing until this issue is resolved.
It is central to how I RP the character.

I say, your character continues to contribute to the orphanage. Then, if it is discovered to be a sham in which Mia and the others are getting rich IG, your character could get angry and steal from them.

[Moirear Sian]

Well, those are my plans as to how I'd do it, as it would be the only logical consequence, but I still have no statements as to whether these children are there or not.

You see, I post in the General Discussion section something concerning RP, namely, the first, and very long post you can read in this thread by me, and I get IMs, only minutes later, from people trying indirectly to defend PO Handur, and to attack my critique.

I mean, there already was a discussion concerning outlaws using a boat to get around the island. The general consensus ended up in being, "it's nonsense".

If I RP that these Orphans don't exist, because we all know (OOC) that they don't, will I not suddenly have a mob of people after me out of (OOC-)reasons who are friends of Mia (OOC) who insist that the Orphans are there even though we all can't see them IG? I have many IG occurences for my character to lend towards believing they do not exist, and I don't want to move into (OOC) crossfire just because I'm RPing my character properly.

This is, specifically, what I see in the case of Brendan Mason and his thread on the Off-topic section, and I just have to say it looks like OOC player mobbing to me. He played his character correctly, got confused by the lack of information that was provided IG, and got flamed for stating this issue OOC. My point is, he was given insufficient or even contradictory background, and people are just moving on as is nothing ever happened.

I want clarification.

[Malvita Rynal]

Well what I don't get, and don't get mad about this Mia, I'm just stating my opinion, is why don't we RP giving her clothes? Why do I have to give her clothes that the system recognizes, for her to give to children that the game doesn't? I could say #me gives her the stack of shirts, seeing as how Malvita (In his RP, if I"ve ever told my story to you) is partially a tailor. She wouldn't say "I can't see them, quit playing around!" because that would be the EXACT same thing people are doing saying she can't have an orphanage. Don't waste your characters money on a RP you could just RP through. The #me function will suffice for these invisible kids, don't you think? Ohh and Mia, Malvita thanks you for the armour, he's got a few bundles of #me'd clothes he'd like to give you.

[Val De Gausse]

I agree with Maltiva, unless they "give" the clothes to the kids...it is a waste. You can rp it it like Mal said. Until they show me the orphanage I won't give them real clothes. As far as I am concerned OOC it is a pyramid scheme. (jk)

[Turonga Mudwater]

Really its not ALL that nescessary to have fighting skills, but it helps alot. Turonga personally is pretty weak in comparison to the players she threatens to kill (I hope this is not used ingame against me) But I do it for the roleplay. I tend to aviod these people out of town, and that is were it would be good to have skills. I dont WANT to have to avoid these people and such but due to the fact that I dont want to be killed I do. Having skills isnt a nessesity, but it really helps.

[Malvita Rynal]

Well it would stop all this talk about her getting rich. So case closed, #me'd clothes for everyone!

#me throws clothes out into the crowd using a... um... catapult!

But if there are any children characters, I WILL make them clothes. Reason being, Malvita would do this to help the children (and to make himself look good) but not particularly to help Mia. If there are no children he is only helping Mia. So #me is the alternative, and it leads to better RP. They could be well embroidered clothes, and you can make much more than you originally could. I had a nice idea, you should all give me some #me'd cookies.

Back to the topic of powergaming. Malvita cannot fight... it's kind of a wake up from my other character, who is a pretty good fighter. Oddly enough though Mal's stats were made pretty well, he can fight zombies for quite a while, though the only reason he would is for thread. He's not a godlike fighter though, and never will be that I know of, it just doesn't fit my RP. I think some people make ALL of their characters fighters just so they won't lose fights. Personally I'm on the other side of the spectrum, I have no skills or items. If I die, what do I lose? That's why Malvita is so rude to those who insult him, and he never backs down. I, as a player, don't worry about losing anything. And he, being the uber proud person he is, would never show fear. I guess I'm not part of the problem. I might be able to point out some who are though...

[Moirear Sian]

Basically, you're right Malvita, and DeGausse.

But that leads me back to the point where people go so far that they RP that they have a platemail on and drag their chainmail and platemail back and forth so they have an upside in fights. Which, you'll see, makes your points invalid.*

As I wrote, the thing about the outlaws and their boats was considered nonsense. I'd just like to hear PO Mia Handur, PO Burlow, or a GM give me green light on playing my char the way I should.
Because my next ig action between Sian and Mia would not be
#me hands her a pile of clothing
(*which I don't have, and I could abuse to fake over the fact that a character is poor).
It would be rather:
#me nods and smiles warmly to the lady
although the character is still wondering whether this orphanage thing was a scam. After all the character Brendan Mason gave Sian serious ideas to think it was one, and he already had reasons to assume it.

And also, it's still not clarified.

[Val De Gausse]

well when it comes to rp to technical sacrifices. If someone rped, who is a very good tailor, that described their work and intricate piece of clothing, sword, what ever there trade be..I would pay extra because they rped it is different.

[Moirear Sian]

Yes, I RP like that too.
That's why, for example, Caranthir earns more money off of me on items identical to what other people sell.
He RPs a merchant, it comes accross clearly in his RP, and I don't need an OOC clarification to know he's a merchant.

Bottom line:
I hand Caranthir gold.
Caranthir hands me an item.

No cheating. Pure RP.

This thread is about powergaming and cheating, as far as I've understood.
I don't see why I'm being treated like this; as if what I'm saying would be off-topic.
It's obviously about cheating, and I've gotten yet another IM telling me to cool it; stating merely "Accept".

[Mia Handur]

okay let me see is I understand this then.

It is okay for elves to want thousands of bags of sand for a reason they will NOT speak of but anyone with a half an ounce of brains can understand that they want it for something like building a city perhaps.


Yet Our refusal to name a location in game for your satsfaction is not okay because you think someone else is getting rich.

And I want to know who owns the lighthouse cavern now that the Bloodtooth orcs say they live there. Did they ask for permission of anyone? Should they have? And who's heads to they keep throwing around town at folks and who's head are littering the cavern floors in their new home that Morrt is always bragging about. They say there are many, well then, who are they.

Which REAL characters have they killed and beheaded.
I asked for the name of the old man's head that I turned into the town guards. The one Torunga tossed at Kasume and I. I never got a reply yet I went with the RP part of it all.

The location NOT given was for specific RP reasons, yet no one has the brains to figure that out. (hint,,, its called they are concerned for the safty of the inhabitants) (gee that was a hard one wasn't it.)

Mia is not getting rich, all those items are stored in three seperate chests and have not been compromised. They could at any moment be returned to the donators because Mia will not steal.

Mia had donated to them herself of her own work, but has chosen not to talk about it as it would be bragging. to her and all the goods Doc Burlow has picked up were goods that Mia herself sewed or bought from her own coins.


Tis a shame then because with time a new building would have been requested of the gm's and hopefully been built in Trollsbane to the gm's exact specifications.

Consider that when folks are running around screaming about ownership of properties, or begging you to dig sand without even telling you why, upsetting your "good ol boys club" status quo, or just plain giving folks a chance to RP somthing else besides "Power" issues.

I think this whole thing is a set of double standards and it is disgusting. It gives RP a bad name and it discourages good RP players from continuing to even want to play.


And to think you folks were complaing about how to get more folks with good RP skills into Illarion to begin with.

[Gro'bul]

Don't take it so personally is the only advice I can give you. Player's insulting eachother is against the rules, but generally if get insulted that person is not worth listening to anyway. Totally immersing yourself in this game can lead to more than frustration, it is imitating real life, and some not so good things can happen in real life.

[Turonga Mudwater]

@Mia you can check your logs I never threw a head at you I merely said it would curse the island. And there should only be three people who know about the Bloodtooth clan but somehow, apperently someone spreading OOC knowledge EVERYONE knows about it.

[Val De Gausse]

THe point is that it got around that some said it was in greenbriar, I even over heard someone talking about it...it may have been you mia, I am unsure. (not pointing fingers) GB is a player owned land. They have rules you can jsut go in and set up a orphanage. Now you dont disclose the location. For what reason? It seems suspicious IG, even though we know ooc we dont have one. The point is, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either name a location agreeable, I wouldn't mind it being even on another island, as long as it isn't in jurisdication of another person. Now, you can name north hear the Sirani shrine, even though there isn't a building there technically, I wouldn't care name it that. You complain that we are bad rpers because we wont give clothes since you wont name the location. The location does not need to be on GB.

I dont even care if the PO of mia wouldn't steal. It's not the PO of mia it is Mia who has the shirts. Frankly, it's just pixels, but it takes TIME to make the shirts. I don't want to waste TIME on making shirts to give to someone who I don't trust. The most money I have ever accumulated is 15 ingots...

[Moirear Sian]

If a character of mine decides not to tell you my name IG, Val, you have to RP to get my character to tell your own his name. But if I, later on, tell PO Val OOC what my character's name is, I do expect that he can seperate his character from knowing it and himself as a player from knowing it.

The location NOT given was for specific RP reasons, yet no one has the brains to figure that out. (hint,,, its called the PO's are concerned for the safty of the inhabitants) (gee that was a hard one wasn't it.)

PO Mia is not getting rich, all those items are stored in three seperate chests and have not been compromised. They could at any moment be returned to the donators because PO Mia will not steal.

PO Mia had donated to them herself of her own work, but has chosen not to talk about it as it would be bragging. to her and all the goods PO Doc Burlow has picked up were goods that PO Mia herself sewed or bought from her own coins.

PO stands for "Player Of"... I doubt PO Mia is going to get rich off of playing a computer game. Games have only made me poorer in money, and richer in fun, and as Val said, it's also time spent on playing rather than doing something else IRL.
But now I'm just trying to joke a bit.
I understand what you meant to say though, Mia.
I wanted to read exactly these statements from either you or Burlow, aside from the fact that one should cross out all the "PO"s in the above text.
Because they state the children, etc. are there, albeit "invisible" in the sense of the client.

And now I want to read what GMs have to say to this.

[Mia Handur]

Torunga you flat out lie. And your "chief" himself talks far too much.

Not to mention the fact that you missed the entire point of comments to begin with.

Mia

[Mia Handur]

Sian, it is nice to know someone actually "reads" things properly.

Thank you.

I have corrected th PO now that I know sombody out there actually thinks instead of just reacts.

Mis

[Turonga Mudwater]

Really its not ALL that nescessary to have fighting skills, but it helps alot. Turonga personally is pretty weak in comparison to the players she threatens to kill (I hope this is not used ingame against me) But I do it for the roleplay. I tend to aviod these people out of town, and that is were it would be good to have skills. I dont WANT to have to avoid these people and such but due to the fact that I dont want to be killed I do. Having skills isnt a nessesity, but it really helps.

Sian, it is nice to know someone actually "reads" things properly.

this topic is actually about Fighting Mia. Also, I did not throw the head You can check your logs that was my chief I just told that human that he cursed the town by throwing it into the water. as for the tribe, I didnt realize my chief had been talking about it sorry about that.